Pole Barn Advice?

[Jayhem]

I've been dragging my feet on the detached garage build because I'm still not sure I want to spend $30,000 on a garage next to the house that will only be used to park cars and store the kids bikes, toys, etc.

So I'm considering instead to build a less impressive garage or even a 24x32 car port with enclosed "shed" within for the kids things and spend the $15,000 saved on a pole barn!

We have 5 acres and there is plenty of room for a pole barn. It makes more sense to me to have a separate barn for things like brush hog tractor, lawn tractor, zero-turn mower, lawn trimming tools, etc.

So I'm looking for some advice. I can do the design myself and have my PE buddy sign off on it for permit or I can buy some pre-engineered plans.
Looking for at least 36x48 with 1/3 of the floor being concrete for an enclosed workshop, the rest will be gravel for storing tractor, lawn equipment, trailer, ATV, etc.

1.) Is it more cost effective to buy a pole barn kit from one of the box stores or source the materials yourself?

2.) Size: Something around 36x48 would probably be plenty but can I go up to 40x60 for just a bit more cost?

3.) POLES: I have heard that making your own "laminated posts" using layers of 2x6 or 2x8 treated lumber is actually stronger than an equal size single post? True?

4.) Height: I'm thinking 12' ceilings with scissor trusses on 1/3 of the roof in case I ever get a lift in the workshop portion. The problem is the taller I get the more prone to wind damage the barn will be. We get some serious storms!

5.) Overhead doors or sliding barn doors? Which is more cost effective? I will probably want at least 2 large doors on separate wall sides for easy of pulling through the building

Any advice appreciated.

Picture of generic 36x48 pole barn.

 

[rburke65]

I sourced my barn materials from a small lumber yard....no big box store or package. Just my opinion. If it's bigger it I'll cost more. " a bit more"? Define "bit more". You will like the 40x60'! Haven't compared making vs buying laminated poles. Me? I'd buy. There are lots of taller pole barns that withstand higher winds. Sliding doors cheaper. Good luck.

 

[tjdux]

Just my opinions.

Go bigger, with the 40x60. You will fill it up. We all do.

The car port garages from the aluminum tube kit buildings (versa tube) when fully enclosed look fine and work great. Maybe go a little bigger than you think you need for car parking then enclose the whole thing, put 2 8x7ft doors on it and then you have the space for kids stuff too.

Or while pouring the pad for the8 versa tube car port pour a 12x15 ft pad for a small shed for bikes, mowers, long handle tools and what not. Then most of that has its own place out of garage and workshop. (Im sure you know this but the garage can quickly fill up with "wifey house stuff" super quickly" and things like shovels and weed timmers eat up space for wrenches amd project cars in the shop.

Sliding doors are really a dying breed imho. Around here anyways I only see them on farm equipment buildings when the farmer doesnt have the $$$ to put in bifold doors (which i would suggest looking into). Sliding doors take up double the width of the door to open. Plus no electric opener.

With a standard door you can have insulation and the only downside is taking up interior ceiling space when open but you're going deep enough anyways that I don't feel thats a huge issue.

Bi-fold doors can be insulated and take up very little interior space and are motorized.

Height seems ok but if the lift is on 1 side instead of the middle even with the open truss you may not have a lot of height. Maybe if you run the shop portion the long width of the shed and put the lift near the middle and have it be 1 of the drive through portions.

I do not know from personal experience but from reading here laminated posts seem less likely to warp than solid posts.

If you're not familiar look up perma columns. They are concrete posts that go in the ground that the wood then stays entirely above ground to stop in ground rot. It's one of the best ways to build a pole barn in my opinion. Good luck with it.

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[cj7jeep81]

https://www.menards.com/main/e-PostFrame.html

Not sure if there is a Menard's near you, but you can design it online and see pricing. Very easy to see what effect overhead vs sliding, size changes, etc.

Also, not sure I'd want to try to make my own laminated columns. Sure you'd save some money, but keeping them all lined up/straight/even would be a pain. I've never compared the price difference though, so maybe its worth looking into. I also recommend perma-columns highly.

 

[jives]

1.) Is it more cost effective to buy a pole barn kit from one of the box stores or source the materials yourself?

2.) Size: Something around 36x48 would probably be plenty but can I go up to 40x60 for just a bit more cost?

3.) POLES: I have heard that making your own "laminated posts" using layers of 2x6 or 2x8 treated lumber is actually stronger than an equal size single post? True?

4.) Height: I'm thinking 12' ceilings with scissor trusses on 1/3 of the roof in case I ever get a lift in the workshop portion. The problem is the taller I get the more prone to wind damage the barn will be. We get some serious storms!

5.) Overhead doors or sliding barn doors? Which is more cost effective? I will probably want at least 2 large doors on separate wall sides for easy of pulling through the building

1. Buy a kit. Why try and piece together a package, when Menards, 84 Lumber, and tons of online places have it already figured out for no more money?
2. Laminated lumber can be stronger and straighter than standard timbers, but not the kind of lamination you are planning. Laminated 6 x 6 poles must be high grade lumber, glued under pressure, minimal if any mechanical fasteners, and done in a controlled environment.
3. Most folks say bigger and taller is better. Normally true, but not always. Aesthetics may or may not matter, and size does add more cost. I would go smaller and concrete the entire floor rather than just part. Don't have a lift, so cannot add advice about the height.
4. Overhead or roll up doors are generally seen as better fitting and less prone to problems.

 

[Jayhem]

Just my opinions.

Go bigger, with the 40x60. You will fill it up. We all do.

The car port garages from the aluminum tube kit buildings (versa tube) when fully enclosed look fine and work great. Maybe go a little bigger than you think you need for car parking then enclose the whole thing, put 2 8x7ft doors on it and then you have the space for kids stuff too.

Or while pouring the pad for the8 versa tube car port pour a 12x15 ft pad for a small shed for bikes, mowers, long handle tools and what not. Then most of that has its own place out of garage and workshop. (Im sure you know this but the garage can quickly fill up with "wifey house stuff" super quickly" and things like shovels and weed timmers eat up space for wrenches amd project cars in the shop.

Sliding doors are really a dying breed imho. Around here anyways I only see them on farm equipment buildings when the farmer doesnt have the $$$ to put in bifold doors (which i would suggest looking into). Sliding doors take up double the width of the door to open. Plus no electric opener.

With a standard door you can have insulation and the only downside is taking up interior ceiling space when open but you're going deep enough anyways that I don't feel thats a huge issue.

Bi-fold doors can be insulated and take up very little interior space and are motorized.

Height seems ok but if the lift is on 1 side instead of the middle even with the open truss you may not have a lot of height. Maybe if you run the shop portion the long width of the shed and put the lift near the middle and have it be 1 of the drive through portions.

I do not know from personal experience but from reading here laminated posts seem less likely to warp than solid posts.

If you're not familiar look up perma columns. They are concrete posts that go in the ground that the wood then stays entirely above ground to stop in ground rot. It's one of the best ways to build a pole barn in my opinion. Good luck with it.

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Thanks! I do already have a 12x20 shed on a pad with full gambrel loft for motorcycle, lawn tools and box storage in the loft so that stuff can stay out of the garage/car port. I may end up building a pole carport for the cars and add walls to that at a later time so that I can afford the pole barn sooner. The perma-columns sound awesome and relieves my fears of sinking treated posts below grade when it seems they start to rot out below grade after just 15 years these days. Treated lumber is not what it used to be! Thanks for the advice and comments.

https://www.menards.com/main/e-PostFrame.html

Not sure if there is a Menard's near you, but you can design it online and see pricing. Very easy to see what effect overhead vs sliding, size changes, etc.

Also, not sure I'd want to try to make my own laminated columns. Sure you'd save some money, but keeping them all lined up/straight/even would be a pain. I've never compared the price difference though, so maybe its worth looking into. I also recommend perma-columns highly.

We don't have Menards but we have 84 Lumber and Carter lumber, both offer online price estimating. Looks like a 40x64 with metal roof and siding, 6 windows, 2 overhead doors and 1 man door with skylights and 12x64 lean-to porch would be around $19,000. that seems like a real bargain to me.

1. Buy a kit. Why try and piece together a package, when Menards, 84 Lumber, and tons of online places have it already figured out for no more money?
2. Laminated lumber can be stronger and straighter than standard timbers, but not the kind of lamination you are planning. Laminated 6 x 6 poles must be high grade lumber, glued under pressure, minimal if any mechanical fasteners, and done in a controlled environment.
3. Most folks say bigger and taller is better. Normally true, but not always. Aesthetics may or may not matter, and size does add more cost. I would go smaller and concrete the entire floor rather than just part. Don't have a lift, so cannot add advice about the height.
4. Overhead or roll up doors are generally seen as better fitting and less prone to problems.

Thanks. Yea we have 84 Lumber and they seem like a bargain for pole barn kits compared to piecing it all together at retail pricing. A full concrete floor on 40x60 is cost prohibitive for me. But it could be done later after the building is paid off. I also don't really see the need to concrete the entire floor when most of it is just going to store tractor, trailer and mowers.

 

[RPH]

Look at Diy pole barns.com.
They have an online estimator and their quality is high on the materials.

 

[cj7jeep81]

I had major condensation issues while my shop was just gravel. Went in there several times and it was practically raining, which sucked with the equipment I have in there. Once I put down the vapor barrier and concrete, no more issues. All the moisture came up through the stone for me. I think my biggest problem is the area my shop sits is lower and fairly wet, but I definitely would not be happy in my situation with only partial concrete.

 

[Jayhem]

I had major condensation issues while my shop was just gravel. Went in there several times and it was practically raining, which sucked with the equipment I have in there. Once I put down the vapor barrier and concrete, no more issues. All the moisture came up through the stone for me. I think my biggest problem is the area my shop sits is lower and fairly wet, but I definitely would not be happy in my situation with only partial concrete.

That actually makes sense. Fortunately my land is on a hill top with ground that stays dry 95% of the year. I can see though that with just gravel floor ventilation would be important to keep the humidity down in the barn.

 

[jimchevy]

I emailed and called several pole barn companies for quotes and found most to be very similar in cost. I had a 24x32x12 pole barn built but wish it was bigger. I couldn't afford more at the time.

 

[Jeepster04]

1.) Is it more cost effective to buy a pole barn kit from one of the box stores or source the materials yourself?

Im sure this differs depending on the area but in my area of Kentucky it was FAR cheaper to source it all myself. I spent a good amount of time calling and sourcing materials. I bought my metal and truss straight from the truss manufacturer instead of going to a place that just calls the truss place then marks them up. Sourced all of my lumber from a local small town lumber yard.

2.) Size: Something around 36x48 would probably be plenty but can I go up to 40x60 for just a bit more cost?

Are you building it yourself or? For me the cost didnt go up much at all with the increase in size. I had a 40x64 under roof for $15,000. This did not include concrete, electrical, and was for insulating half of the building.

3.) POLES: I have heard that making your own "laminated posts" using layers of 2x6 or 2x8 treated lumber is actually stronger than an equal size single post? True?

Yes, they are stronger. Ive never heard of making your own but I suppose you could. You would only need the portion thats in the ground to be treated.

4.) Height: I'm thinking 12' ceilings with scissor trusses on 1/3 of the roof in case I ever get a lift in the workshop portion. The problem is the taller I get the more prone to wind damage the barn will be. We get some serious storms!

I wouldnt go less than 12'

5.) Overhead doors or sliding barn doors? Which is more cost effective? I will probably want at least 2 large doors on separate wall sides for easy of pulling through the building

I had both. One on each end of the building. Sliding doors are farm cheaper but its a pain if you will be pulling much in and out of the building. All depends on preference. A garage door would seal better, of course.

 

[AVIVIII]

1.) Is it more cost effective to buy a pole barn kit from one of the box stores or source the materials yourself?

2.) Size: Something around 36x48 would probably be plenty but can I go up to 40x60 for just a bit more cost?

3.) POLES: I have heard that making your own "laminated posts" using layers of 2x6 or 2x8 treated lumber is actually stronger than an equal size single post? True?

4.) Height: I'm thinking 12' ceilings with scissor trusses on 1/3 of the roof in case I ever get a lift in the workshop portion. The problem is the taller I get the more prone to wind damage the barn will be. We get some serious storms!

5.) Overhead doors or sliding barn doors? Which is more cost effective? I will probably want at least 2 large doors on separate wall sides for easy of pulling through the building

1. Any respectable lumber yard should be able to put a materials bill and basic design together based on your specs. You want funky engineering, thats on you. Basic pole barn, no problem.

2. Yes and no. On the base, its probably 4 more holes & poles, no big deal. The roof is where you're going to pay. Assuming its going to be a truss roof, with the increased span, are you going to be able to get the pitch that you want? If it goes over-width for the truck, transportation could be a problem. All the rest of the roofing gets more expensive as well.

3. Only if you use solid sticks and cross-bolt them. Any joints/laps will cause weak point. IIRC, deflection in a lap-jointed "laminated post" can be up to 3 times as much as a solid, milled post. Not sure if its worth the work, Here in NH, rough-sawn, below-grade-treated 6x6 hemlock is pretty darn cheap...

4. In the garage I'm currently building, our ceilings finish at 11' over 2 bays (attic truss above) and have 7/12 inside pitch scissor trusses over that last bay and work area. By my math, I should be able to get a 1 ton crew cab all the way up on the lift with room to spare.

5. Also my dilemma. We have 3 10x10 doors in the front and a 4th in the back making the middle bay a pull through. I don't intend on "pulling through" often, but its big enough to get a six-wheel dump truck or a good-sized excavator through if I need it. We're definitely doing overhead doors on the front 3, but the back one is still unknown. It is in our backyard and in the vicinity of the patio and fire-pit, so the wife would like something a little more aesthetically pleasing. It looks like I'm probably going to be building a massive swinging door (maybe in 4 sections instead of 2....) as there is no way to do a slider because of the grade... All I know right now is that 10x10 doors are expensive!

 

[CNGsaves]

x1000 to finish ENTIRE floor in concrete. Do It Once, Do It Right !!

Although you don't mention it, are you considering RADIANT heat in floor ?? I'd sure insulate below the concrete and put in radiant tubing in any "working" shop area. Heck, many will say to put in radiant tubing in the entire shop, even if your current plan is only to use rest of shop for storage. It's just so easy and cost effective to keep shop at say 50 degrees all winter, then shut down the radiant in the spring.

I'd vote for 40'x60' in your situation, with the drive-through for sure. Make sure AT LEAST one door is plenty tall for the TALLEST piece of equipment/vehicle you ever intend on bringing into the shop.

 

[Marctrees]

Just one thought - The guys that erect these, and specialize in it, do nothing else, on a regular basis, put up a building like you want, your size, in like 3 days total labor.

And, they do it so efficiently that the labor cost is very reasonable.

Up to how ambitious you are and time on your hands.

May want to realistically look into that.

They supply all matl, take care of everything, some even have in house concrete crew.

You would be responsible to get dirt work done, and maybe the concrete separate from them.

Anyway - Sectional overhead doors are much tighter seal on edges than sliders

Critters definitely prefer sliders.

Laminated posts are a possibly great idea, Google it.

Great website to read the archive blogs and Info Center - http://www.hansenpolebuildings.com/

Your area may be higher$, and scissor more $, but heres an idea of pricing in TX - turnkey erected price ideas - We will be using these guys soon, have checked them out thoroughly - AND - These prices include concrete floor. -

http://www.metalbarnsandgarages.com/pricing-guide/

http://americanclassifiedsbryan.com/files/2016/10/5-STARR-METAL-BUILDERS-4x5A-e1477517224551.jpg

 

[AVIVIII]

...are you considering RADIANT heat in floor ?? I'd sure insulate below the concrete and put in radiant tubing in any "working" shop area. Heck, many will say to put in radiant tubing in the entire shop, even if your current plan is only to use rest of shop for storage. It's just so easy and cost effective...

The cost of doing it right is what stopped me. It was going to double the cost of the floor and most of it was in foam...

I've got a Modine and 65kBTU excess on my house boiler that I'm not using.

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