Pole barn concrete woes

[CooperFarm]

Good morning y'all, and happy Saturday. I've been stressing out over (amongst other things) a complicated issue I am having with the concrete floor in my pole barn. The pour was done early summer of 2015, and it was given more than ample time to cure before anything heavy was moved in (two months or more). There were three control cuts made the day the concrete was poured. The building has been used exclusively (apart from a few oil changes) as a workshop and for storage, not for parking.

I have three issues I am addressing here, (with the builder and the concrete company) and I'll try to keep it as simple as possible:

1) The "slab section" (for lack of a better term) in the southeast corner seems to be settling towards the east wall. The control cut cracked out to the edge as expected, but the crack has opened up to at least 1/8", and the southeast section is no longer level with the adjacent section.

2) There are a couple of areas (approx. 8"x8") where the aggregate is at the surface of the slab, indicating to me that there was an issue with floating that particular area. These areas are also extreme high spots, which leads me to my final issue...

3) The damn slab isn't level! Now, I know there will be imperfections here and there, but there doesn't seem to be an area that is not replete with "peaks and valleys". For example, I was moving my table saw a few days ago, an old Craftsman, cast iron with a very heavy steel base (+250#), and I could not get the damn thing to sit level within a 6'x6' section of the floor.

So I guess my question with this particular issue is how level should I reasonably expect this floor to be? And at what point do I really start making noise?

Now comes in the possible X factor just to keep things interesting. I have my doubts about the site prep and how dutifully the contractor filled and compacted for the building and slab. I have a feeling I will begin to see signs of insufficient compaction in the coming year.

If you've made it this far, thank you. It has been a very frustrating year and a half trying to get repairs done to the building, and now addressing concrete issues. But I feel there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I would greatly appreciate any feedback from you good folks so I can deal with it and put it behind me (eventually)

 

[AndyCBR]

Good morning y'all, and happy Saturday. I've been stressing out over (amongst other things) a complicated issue I am having with the concrete floor in my pole barn. The pour was done early summer of 2015, and it was given more than ample time to cure before anything heavy was moved in (two months or more). There were three control cuts made the day the concrete was poured. The building has been used exclusively (apart from a few oil changes) as a workshop and for storage, not for parking.

I have three issues I am addressing here, (with the builder and the concrete company) and I'll try to keep it as simple as possible:

1) The "slab section" (for lack of a better term) in the southeast corner seems to be settling towards the east wall. The control cut cracked out to the edge as expected, but the crack has opened up to at least 1/8", and the southeast section is no longer level with the adjacent section.

2) There are a couple of areas (approx. 8"x8") where the aggregate is at the surface of the slab, indicating to me that there was an issue with floating that particular area. These areas are also extreme high spots, which leads me to my final issue...

3) The damn slab isn't level! Now, I know there will be imperfections here and there, but there doesn't seem to be an area that is not replete with "peaks and valleys". For example, I was moving my table saw a few days ago, an old Craftsman, cast iron with a very heavy steel base (+250#), and I could not get the damn thing to sit level within a 6'x6' section of the floor.

So I guess my question with this particular issue is how level should I reasonably expect this floor to be? And at what point do I really start making noise?

Now comes in the possible X factor just to keep things interesting. I have my doubts about the site prep and how dutifully the contractor filled and compacted for the building and slab. I have a feeling I will begin to see signs of insufficient compaction in the coming year.

If you've made it this far, thank you. It has been a very frustrating year and a half trying to get repairs done to the building, and now addressing concrete issues. But I feel there is light at the end of the tunnel, and I would greatly appreciate any feedback from you good folks so I can deal with it and put it behind me (eventually)

This is a tough situation and why getting concrete and sitework right beforehand is critical.

I can't say for certain but sounds like there may have been lack of compaction of the sub grade and a less than stellar finishing job.

If so, no easy or cheap fixes.

What did your contract with the builder state? Were there any written plans or specifications? Has the builder looked at your complaints yet? Has the builder been paid in full? Is there any retainage?

At this point I would see what the builder has to say and go from there. Definitely see if he can bring a laser level and walk around the slab and survey the flatness and the areas you believe are settling.

Hope this helps.

 

[RWorth]

I'd buy a cheap laser if you don't have one and get some actual real #'s. Letting the guy that should be to blame if there is a problem to do his own inspection is counter productive. It will also give you real #'s to compare as time goes on.

 

[CooperFarm]

Though I have very little experience with site prep, I would agree with the lack of compaction. My basis for this opinion is that the not only did the excavator have to strip, fill and compact the site (4 loads of fill + stone), but he also had to first remove an existing 16'x24' slab from the original barn that stood there. He did all of this with one machine (plus plate compactor) in just under 7 hours. Seems rather expedient to me..

As far as the floor is concerned, the contract called for: 4" stone base, 4" fiber mesh concrete with 6 mil vapor barrier. No other specs in the contract.

The builder has been out to address the issues with the concrete, as well as SEVERAL others, all of which were addressed well over a year ago and are now being "remedied". You see where I'm going with this..

A laser level is not needed to detect the high and low spots, I can literally feel them as I walk around the slab. Perhaps a laser level would be needed to pick up on the settling of the slab sections. In either case, no, the builder has not gone this route. I tried to find out what the concrete contractors reported back to the builder after their inspection but I got no answer, and I suspect I never will. Thus I will be on the phone with the concrete contractor on Monday.

Thank you for your input. I don't feel like I've been unreasonable with my concerns, and hearing other peoples opinions certainly helps.

 

[CooperFarm]

I'd buy a cheap laser if you don't have one and get some actual real #'s. Letting the guy that should be to blame if there is a problem to do his own inspection is counter productive. It will also give you real #'s to compare as time goes on.

I agree. I have been looking into having another reputable concrete contractor inspect the slab and document the issues and possible solutions. At least then I can get an idea of the actual #'s as you suggested and an idea of the real cost of any repair, though at this point I don't think there is any repair scenario to consider other than ripping it out and re-pouring.

 

[brownbagg]

plate tamps are not suitable for compaction

 

[jhark123]

^ That's a pretty ignorant statement considering that you do not know the plate size, fill depth, material or moisture content.

 

[Firebrick43]

plate tamps are not suitable for compaction

Plate Tamps are sufficient for many aggregates in done in lifts 4" or less. Many native soils no however. Lots of soils need a Sheeps foot, but even that is not universal, depends on soil make up.

The op did not or does not know enough about the site prep to be really useful. What type of fill was used? This is the red flag to me.

Did you have a spec in the contract for how level? If no you are going to have a hard time doing much unless it's 3/4" or more?(sorry, re read and you stated no additional specs)

Was it hot the day of the pour?? The large lump with exposed aggregate tells me the concrete got stiff before they could screed it out fully and bull float it.

 

[CooperFarm]

Plate Tamps are sufficient for many aggregates in done in lifts 4" or less. Many native soils no however. Lots of soils need a Sheeps foot, but even that is not universal, depends on soil make up.

The op did not or does not know enough about the site prep to be really useful. What type of fill was used? This is the red flag to me.

Did you have a spec in the contract for how level? If no you are going to have a hard time doing much unless it's 3/4" or more?(sorry, re read and you stated no additional specs)

Was it hot the day of the pour?? The large lump with exposed aggregate tells me the concrete got stiff before they could screed it out fully and bull float it.

The compaction was definitely not done in 4" lifts. The NE corner of the site needed at least 24" of fill at its deepest, and if memory serves the compactor was only run a few times overall. Like I stated, the entire job took less than 7 hours, after the contractor told me he would be there two days, and that he would be running the compactor all day presumably on the second day.

I do not know what type of fill dirt was used, so I can't speak to that. As far as "how level" I couldn't say until I get a laser on it, but there are definitely areas where the low spots are 3/4" or more, and they cover a significant area.

It was not a hot day, maybe 70-75º, and humid, so I don't think it is a case of the concrete stiffening. Also this "lump" is in the SE corner where they began to screed it out.

I'm not trying to place blame here before I can gather more information and get opinions of more professionals. I just know there is a wealth of knowledge here in the forum and wanted to get some opinions from you kind folks. Thanks for your input.

 

[bczygan]

Since you made sure the GC had a bond for the job, sufficient to cover this, and the specifications had definitions of the quality expected, then you should be all set.

Before accepting the work, have it inspected and decline to accept it until it meets specs.

Oh you didn't?

Nevermind.

At least this can be a lesson for others.

 

[Badattitude]

^ That's a pretty ignorant statement considering that you do not know the plate size, fill depth, material or moisture content.

And yours is an equally ignorant statement considering you do not know his profession, background and experience.

But I can stand behind my statement with confidence and authority because I do

 

[lakeroadster]

Man, that *****.

My advice moving forward: "Trust but Verify".

You'll catch a lot of flack from contractors, they'll say "I've done this for years, I know what I am doing". Great, then you'll have no problem with me verifying that as the project progresses, right?

Quality is an elusive thing unless there is Quality Assurance methods in place. Testing is a must to avoid the very problem you are facing.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback from you good folks so I can deal with it and put it behind me (eventually)

Based on your comment:

The compaction was definitely not done in 4" lifts. The NE corner of the site needed at least 24" of fill at its deepest, and if memory serves the compactor was only run a few times overall.

The only way to put it behind you is to have the slab removed, the fill removed and then start over, doing the fill correctly and having the fill density verified in stages by an independent 3rd party.

You might find this thread helpful: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=346747

For a visual see threads #134 through #137 here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289293&page=7

Good luck to you and let us know how things progress!

 

[jhark123]

I think some pics would help this thread. There are industry standards for concrete, but they vary based on the quality expected. There are obviously different expected standards for a dairy barn and a commercial building that's intended to have polished concrete floors. Your situation will come down to what you can negotiate with your contractor, barring that what a judge thinks you should reasonably expect.

Also, there are plenty of plates that can do an 8" lift of 5/8 minus gravel. That would be two passes during a 24" lift and one at the end. We're you on-site during the dirt work?

 

[jhark123]

And yours is an equally ignorant statement considering you do not know his profession, background and experience.

But I can stand behind my statement with confidence and authority because I do

How is my statement ignorant? A plate compactor does a fine job, in the situations and depths that it is designed for. Almost any plate on the market will compact 4" of 5/8 minus gravel to 95%, how is that insufficient.

Letting statements like the one I quoted go unchecked is how mis-information starts.

 

[rburke65]

Boys, boys, boys!.......lets be nice here.....no one know anyone here.

 

[Badattitude]

How is my statement ignorant? A plate compactor does a fine job, in the situations and depths that it is designed for. Almost any plate on the market will compact 4" of 5/8 minus gravel to 95%, how is that insufficient.

Letting statements like the one I quoted go unchecked is how mis-information starts.

I stand behind my statement based on what I said...PERIOD.

I don't want to get this thread locked for the sake of the OP so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Badattitude]

Boys, boys, boys!.......lets be nice here.....no one know anyone here.

Don't be so sure

 

[CooperFarm]

Since you made sure the GC had a bond for the job, sufficient to cover this, and the specifications had definitions of the quality expected, then you should be all set.

Before accepting the work, have it inspected and decline to accept it until it meets specs.

Oh you didn't?

Nevermind.

At least this can be a lesson for others.

Since your positivity and support is an obvious character trait, and you certainly wouldn't leave snarky replies to someone looking for opinions and advice without knowing the depth and breadth of the situation, I commend you and offer heartfelt thanks.

Oh that wasn't your intention?

Nevermind.

I digress.. The issues with the concrete were brought to the attention of the builder, as well as the concrete contractor when they occurred, which was well over a year ago. Like I stated previously, I am not trying to place blame at this point, but determine a further course of action based on professional evaluation. I do know for indisputable fact that the the issues with the sub-base or concrete were not caused by me.

P.S.- Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everyone's input, even if it is seemingly making me out to be a blundering buffoon

 

[pstnbly]

I might try calling in a floor grinding specialist to see about leveling the 2 areas that have not seemed to settle. The section with settling issues will need to be broken out, properly graded and compacted, and concrete replaced.

 

[Firebrick43]

I am not a lawyer or even know if it would work but maybe cut a 8 or 12" square out and have a 3rd party varify proper compaction with a Procter test. That would be your evidence in court. You probably need to talk to a knowledgeable lawyer in your state(laws differ state by state) if that even reasonable. Then comes the fact "most" concrete guys are sort of sketchy in many ways but if he was financially it may be impossible to extract compensation.

Lakeroadster is right, the only proper recourse is to rip everything out and start over. There are no good fixes for your multiple issues.

 

[73RR]

Yeah, your in a tough spot.
You are not the first guy to be in such a position/situation and it all comes down to having a contract that details exactly what you are paying for and exactly what the GC is providing. A proper contract protects both parties.

Either you live with what you have or, like lakeroadster suggests, remove it and start over. It will be exceptionally difficult to 'fix' a slab as bad as you describe since part of the problem is questionable fill material.
I foresee lawyers involved and everyone looses then.
Do you have a diary or photo journal of the construction?
Did you hire the concrete sub or was all of your dealings with the GC?

It is possible to inject foam into the base material to solidify/stabilize what is there.
It is possible to raise portions of the slab that have settled.
It is possible to grind down the high spots of the slab just as it is possible to top-coat the slab to make it level.
The question is, of course, who will be paying for the remedies? The answers will be found in the specification of your contract.

 

[jhark123]

Cooperfarm, can you post some pictures?

 

[brownbagg]

I am not a lawyer or even know if it would work but maybe cut a 8 or 12" square out and have a 3rd party varify proper compaction with a Procter test. That would be your evidence in court. .

the problem with that is due to the surcharge of the concrete slab (weight), the soil has compacted, resulting in the settlement. Its hard to get an accurate compaction result after settlement has happen,

 

[lakeroadster]

.....
It is possible to inject foam into the base material to solidify/stabilize what is there.
It is possible to raise portions of the slab that have settled.
It is possible to grind down the high spots of the slab just as it is possible to top-coat the slab to make it level.
....

All valid, yet that is all a fools errand if the fill isn't compacted / settled. As long as the slab continues to settle all the money spent on mud-jacking and grinding will give temporary satisfaction, followed by settling, and then back to the same old issue.

 

[Firebrick43]

the problem with that is due to the surcharge of the concrete slab (weight), the soil has compacted, resulting in the settlement. Its hard to get an accurate compaction result after settlement has happen,

But if the OP observations about the time spent compacting(lack of) it probably still will be below standards, would it not?

 

[jhark123]

But if the OP observations about the time spent compacting(lack of) it probably still will be below standards, would it not?

No, not necessarily.

 

[bczygan]

I do feel for the OP, but how is it that people keep going blithely into these projects without any contractual protection?

Why risk what you can't afford to lose?

I've actually been on the other side of this. And my bond was used to repair and make the owner whole. Simple.

Bill

 

[AndyCBR]

Though I have very little experience with site prep, I would agree with the lack of compaction. My basis for this opinion is that the not only did the excavator have to strip, fill and compact the site (4 loads of fill + stone), but he also had to first remove an existing 16'x24' slab from the original barn that stood there. He did all of this with one machine (plus plate compactor) in just under 7 hours. Seems rather expedient to me..

As far as the floor is concerned, the contract called for: 4" stone base, 4" fiber mesh concrete with 6 mil vapor barrier. No other specs in the contract.

The builder has been out to address the issues with the concrete, as well as SEVERAL others, all of which were addressed well over a year ago and are now being "remedied". You see where I'm going with this..

A laser level is not needed to detect the high and low spots, I can literally feel them as I walk around the slab. Perhaps a laser level would be needed to pick up on the settling of the slab sections. In either case, no, the builder has not gone this route. I tried to find out what the concrete contractors reported back to the builder after their inspection but I got no answer, and I suspect I never will. Thus I will be on the phone with the concrete contractor on Monday.

Thank you for your input. I don't feel like I've been unreasonable with my concerns, and hearing other peoples opinions certainly helps.

I'll chime in once more so as not to get involved in the melee that tends to ensue when various "experts" on this forum start to squabble...

Let's assume you are a victim of substandard workmanship.

There is only one true remedy and that is tear out and redo.

Which party pays?
1) Builder, voluntarily (least likely scenario)
2) You, and eat the cost.
3) You, and seek legal remedy with the builder (or his agent IE insurance) for reimbursement.

Here is the problem with #3.

You have to prove the substandard workmanship, often to a layperson (judge, arbitrator) based on "industry standards" which vary in scope and interpretation. If the industry standards were always clear and universal there would be no need for plans and specifications. You have to demonstrate "damages" in dollars based on some real numbers.

So, let's assume you actually win some type of ruling in a court of law. You'll get a judgement but that also does not force the builder to cut a check. Enforcing a judgment is very difficult. Some of this becomes easier if his insurance company is involved.

In short there is really no mechanism to put a gun to someone's temple and make them cut you a check. It's not like child support where a third party will step in and garnish the guys wages.

This is a really tough spot so no good answers. I would exhaust any and all remedies with the builder in a cordial manner before I moved to option #3. Suing someone for substandard workmanship is not the panacea it may seem.

Good luck OP and keep us posted.

 

[lakeroadster]

I do feel for the OP, but how is it that people keep going blithely into these projects without any contractual protection?

Why risk what you can't afford to lose?

I've actually been on the other side of this. And my bond was used to repair and make the owner whole. Simple.

Bill

So let's post up some things that should be in the contract. I used something similar to the following and had the contractor(s) sign the document and refer to it in their contract.

 

[ard]

Like I stated previously, I am not trying to place blame at this point, ...

Well, I would be.

Otherwise, just jack hammer it out, have everything recompacted, then pour a proper slab with rebar and have a spec on surface level. And you pay the bill.

IF YOU DONT WANT TO PAY THE BILL, you WILL need to 'place blame' on someone other than yourself.

I dont state this to (only) be snarky- this is an adversarial situation, period. Your contractor and concrete guy are dancing- they may even been in contact, who knows... you need an independent opinion, I would hire an inspector to investigate and draft a report. If it costs $200, $500, $800... might be worth it. (depending on level of work, concrete coring, compaction testing)

Where I live, there is a thing called the Contractors State License Board. CSLB. They will investigate complaints on work done by a licensed contractor- and if they find substandard work can order a repair. There are inherent standards on 'stuff'- your contract might not need to say "use sheepsfoot compactor in 8 inch lifts to achieve **% compaction of native soils, blah blah".... it may be that if he places a slab and failed to prepair the subsurface HE is on the hook... If the CSLB agrees, and if the contractor doesnt, you can go after his license bond. Just FYI- not sure about NJ.

(Years ago I had a general worked on building my house- I was on him like white on rice- punch lists constantly, re-works, etc, etc. When he was done he said "ard, the day you and your wife walked into my office I should have just written you a check for $10k- I would have been ahead?" Anyway, 12 years later I bumped into him- he was then an expert witness for construction litigation. ******** joke. Point is there there are people that fall betweeen 'contractor' and 'expert witness for litigation' but before you actually start the legal process.)

Dont be afraid of moving down a more legal feeling path... sometimes it is what you need to do to be treated right.

 

[Zeke]

Take an LED flashlight out there in the dark and lay it level with the floor. Use a yardstick and a camera to document the unevenness.

Consider having mud jacking done over in the sinking section.

Move on and enjoy life. I say that because I have been fretting over a poor install of my HVAC system in June of '14. There's not much I can do at this point to force the dude to fix what he didn't do in the first place. The flat roof leaks under right where the unit sits. And I got this now as there was no rain until this season.

I have threatened this *** hole with a suit but in reality he's not worth my time. Some people are not very good at what they do and more over many more are just no damn good.

 

[ssdave]

I've been on the legal side of this before, as an expert witness in court representing both contractors and owners. Let me preface this with the caveat that this is not either expert engineering advice or legal advice, just general observations.

This case is essentially a blame placement matter. The case boils down to the following:

1) What is the deficiency, and how does the final product deviate from the normal standard of care or quality that should have been expected, or that was required by the contract?

2) What was the cause of the deficiency that was identified in 1).

3) Who performed the work that was determined to be the cause in 2).

4) What is the remedy for the deficiency identified in 1).

5) What is the cost of the remedy identified in 4).

6) How do you make the responsible party identified in 3) pay for the cost identified in 5).

My recommendation is that you hire a professional with appropriate credentials to identify the deficiency, quantify it, identify the remedy, and cost it out. (Items 1,2,4,5). Do not ask this professional to identify the responsible party, you want to keep their opinion as technical and unbiased as you can for future action.

Identify if you want to pursue the remedy that is recommended by your professional, or which alternative if you have options.

If the dollar amounts of the remedy are worth the time to you of doing so, hire an attorney to define items 3 and 6, and give you advice on how to recover the costs. Have them send a demand letter to the responsible party. If the demand letter doesn't produce results, then pursue court action if necessary.

My experience in every case that I have been involved in, on both sides, is that a court will always side with the homeowner. The principle they use is that the homeowner is the weak party in the case; they hire a professional contractor to do the work because they have less ability and less knowledge than the contractor. The contractor, as a skilled professional offering services, has the duty do know the requirements of the job and perform to those requirements.

Once you have recovered the funds to do the repair, do not have the original contractor do the repair, unless the court orders that as a remedy. The last thing you want is an angry party subject to a judgement working on your stuff again. I would get a firm estimate to remedy the job from a quality, reputable contractor not associated with the original one BEFORE you go to court, and use that as your requested damages, plus attorneys fees. You may or may not be entitled to attorneys fees, that is part of what your attorney can advise you on.


If you don't want to to through all the above, your recourse is to do what you are doing: Try to work with your contractor to have him remedy the work. A highly reputable contractor with good resources to be able to absorb the loss may voluntarily fix the work. A marginal contractor may do a partial remedy, essentially splitting the cost with you; he does what he can and you accept an inferior final product. A low resource or low ethics contractor will simply stall you or walk away, and hope that the hassle of a claim and lawsuit is too much for you to take on and that you will simply live with the problem or eat the cost of the repairs yourself.

A lot of this boils down to your preferences. Is a lawsuit and the effort and time worth it to you? Is the cost of the repair low enough you will just eat it and write it off as a life lesson in contracting? Can you work with your existing contractors well enough to reach a satisfactory solution?

 

[tcianci]

I know this won't help the OP but years ago, we would always FLOOD our fill. It's amazing how much some of that fill would drop even after a machine had been running over it all day. I built a garage with my brother on his place. His excavator backfilled the garage floor area. I advised him to flood it to settle and compact it. He told me that he had used a plate compactor and it was good to go. A day later we got a massive thunderstorm. That fill dropped inches in some places. We had to bring in quite a few loader buckets of gravel to get it back. Then we flooded that new fill. He never gave me any **** about flooding fill ever again.

 

[CooperFarm]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed by all the responses! Thanks for all the input
A couple of things I should have made more clear from the start:

The GC handled all the subs, from site work, to construction, to concrete, to overhead doors to gutters. (I only wish he had subbed what I can only qualify as "finish" work on this job) That was the appeal of this particular builder, I did not need to play the role of contractor at any point. Until now to some degree.

This is the first job I have ever contracted someone else to do. (Anything I have needed up to this point I have handled myself, safely and to code mind you) The scale of this project was too much for me alone. That is where the aforementioned builder came into the picture, offering a turn-key building, from soup to nuts. At a premium of course, but it seemed worth it at the time to alleviate potential headaches. Now the irony is slowly killing me lol.

It has been a painful realization, but one that I came to a year ago, that the only real "fix" is to tear it up, re-compact and re-pour. It is also a fix that I would love to avoid altogether, but it is what it is.

As far as placing blame, obviously some entity is at fault. It is now a matter of determining which party is responsible (perhaps both) and moving forward in whatever manner attains results. You guys have given me a ton of information to think about, I'll be re-reading all of it this evening.

 

[CooperFarm]

So let's post up some things that should be in the contract. I used something similar to the following and had the contractor(s) sign the document and refer to it in their contract.

I wish I had had the forethought to draft up something like this from the start. "Trust and verify" is a great creed when someone else is doing work for you. Also a little "cover your ***" doesn't hurt. I have no issue going after someone that doesn't fulfill an agreement to my satisfaction, I only wish I had been a little more aggressive. But life often gets in the way, and I can't be angry all the time.

Take an LED flashlight out there in the dark and lay it level with the floor. Use a yardstick and a camera to document the unevenness.

Consider having mud jacking done over in the sinking section.

Move on and enjoy life. I say that because I have been fretting over a poor install of my HVAC system in June of '14. There's not much I can do at this point to force the dude to fix what he didn't do in the first place. The flat roof leaks under right where the unit sits. And I got this now as there was no rain until this season.

I have threatened this *** hole with a suit but in reality he's not worth my time. Some people are not very good at what they do and more over many more are just no damn good.

Well put. I'm hoping to put this behind me ASAP, and mitigate the graying of my beard

 

[brownbagg]

everybody love the plate tamp because the rental is cheap and you can train a monkey to operate one. but on the soil testing side of it, it doesnt have enough force to compact over two inches of sand, ok here the place where somebody tell me im wrong and they compacted four feet with one. either get a big roller or a jumping jack

 

[lakeroadster]

^^^ agreed ^^^

Joe.. the 70 year old worker dude that compacted the sub-grade on my barn said the same thing to me.... as Tony, the young guy, was running the plate compactor. Joe then said "the young guys like the plate compactor 'cause it's easy".

After Tony was done Joe looked at me and said "walk on that".. so I did. Joe then fired up the jumping jack. After about 10 minutes of working one area Joe said "now, walk on that". The sub-grade was remarkably more dense.

Then they brought in the big roller...

 

[ard]

All I know is that on the basis of only TWO posts in different threads, the next time I need a civil engineer with expertise in concrete...in Oregon...I'll be calling ssdave.

 

[matt_i]

The slab is eventually going to settle to wherever its going to go. So by just waiting, several years, if you can live with it, you don't have to make an immediate change. Mother Nature is at work.

Even in a really well compacted/placed/cured slab you can still have little hollows from finishing that are only visible if you flood the entire thing with water, or....spend a lot of time with a laser level and/or a long straightedge. I try to put 4 "leveling mounts" under any critical piece of machinery so it can be leveled anywhere in any shop (within reason of course) or at least made not to rock between two sets of 3 legs.

If you do set-out to redo there are a number of other details that deserve attention also....vapor barrier, steel reinforcement, curing sealer or other means of wet-curing. Sounds like you already did the saw cuts well.

 

[penright]

On the subject of cut joint separating.
Just curious, I did not see it mention, what kind of steel reinforcement was there?
Your story may keep me up at nights.
My site needed a lot of pad work. The quote was with fiberglass mesh. I was really concern about settling and one corner dropping down, so I paid extra for a roll of wire to be drop in. May not keep it from settling off level, but I hope it stays flat.