Pole barn concrete woes

[Ironhorse74]

What ssdave said. You need to get a professional out there and have them evaluate the situation come up with a cause and a rememdy. I assume that professional is a Certified Engineer. Probably going to cost more than a few bucks.

 

[CooperFarm]

On the subject of cut joint separating.
Just curious, I did not see it mention, what kind of steel reinforcement was there?
Your story may keep me up at nights.
My site needed a lot of pad work. The quote was with fiberglass mesh. I was really concern about settling and one corner dropping down, so I paid extra for a roll of wire to be drop in. May not keep it from settling off level, but I hope it stays flat.

There was no steel reinforcement used, just fiber mesh in the concrete.

 

[CooperFarm]

Thank you all again for the valuable input. I've been in contact with the GC and I'm still awaiting a response. I've also been in contact with an engineer and have tentatively arranged an inspection and report, depending on the response from the GC. For what it's worth, the engineer I spoke to stated that I should not be having these issues, however minor, with a slab that was poured 18 months ago, but obviously he would need to perform a full inspection (and charge me $475...ouch). I'm willing to accept small imperfections in the slab, but my gut feeling is due to the poor site prep and compaction these imperfections will turn into major problems down the line.

 

[Firebrick43]

^^^ agreed ^^^

Joe.. the 70 year old worker dude that compacted the sub-grade on my barn said the same thing to me.... as Tony, the young guy, was running the plate compactor. Joe then said "the young guys like the plate compactor 'cause it's easy".

After Tony was done Joe looked at me and said "walk on that".. so I did. Joe then fired up the jumping jack. After about 10 minutes of working one area Joe said "now, walk on that". The sub-grade was remarkably more dense.

Then they brought in the big roller...

Without any further information this could be true, or it could be just the amount of passes.

Cohesive soils, anything with clays, needs shear forces to compact. Soils that stick together will not vibrate down. Two ways to produce shear forces, either an impact rammer such as a jumping jack or a sheeps foot roller.

Granular materials need vibrated to compact most efficiently. The vibration motion allows the particals (with help from water for lubrication) to fall into voids and fill them up. A jumping jack will actually do worse in some gravels.

A vibratory roller is best as it can put more force per square inch but from a good plate compactor its actually just a few more pounds per square inch. A non vibratory roller can actually be worse in gravels and sand than a plate compactor.

What ever you use, depth of lifts is paramount. A lift to thick can cause insufficient compaction even with the biggest and heaviest of rollers. Weight supported at a point is spread out in a pyramid fashion. The deeper you go the less lbs per square inch is there to do the compaction.

A plate compactor is quite sufficient for 3/4 minus stone, gravel, and sand. It may take small lifts under 4" and multiple passes. When I do pads with a bella plate compactor of Number 8 crushed stone it does a job that its difficult to drive a 1/2" rebar grade stake with a 2 pound hammer.

Blindly discounting or recommending any type of compactor without knowing soil types is irresponsible.

Go to the compaction equipment manufactures and ask for the best type of compactor, they will ask what soil/material type. If you ask for one that covers them all they will laugh.

 

[matt_i]

I'm not fully understanding what the engineer is for? Is this to prepare evidence for a court case?

The bottom line is the slab either cracked and settled in a localized area (should be obvious to see that) or, was screeded out of level to start.

Trying to "fix" it is inefficient, in my .02 internet opinion. I would begin negotiations with your GC about breakout, remedy the base problem, and repour with reinforcement to proper slope.

 

[ard]

I'm not fully understanding what the engineer is for? Is this to prepare evidence for a court case?

The bottom line is the slab either cracked and settled in a localized area (should be obvious to see that) or, was screeded out of level to start.

Trying to "fix" it is inefficient, in my .02 internet opinion. I would begin negotiations with your GC about breakout, remedy the base problem, and repour with reinforcement to proper slope.

First, the 'engineer' is to establish the cause and the potential fix.

(While it may be obvious that it needs to be removed and redone, having an expert SAY this, or WRITE it, means it isnt whiney joe homeowner saying it. It also means when GC says 'oh we can self level blah blah' you can point to the report.)

His report might be used in court, but in fact by using a qualified engineer you establish yourself as a serious player willing to do what it takes to get this fixed, right.

IMO having an unassailable report of the defect and the fix, puts you in a MUCH better position to negotiate with the GC. Much better.

GL OP

 

[matt_i]

Somehow I replied to the wrong thread....my apologies...