Pole Barn Construction Process

[notabmw1]

I may be over thinking this, but I am trying to figure out how to coordinate this, and what decisions to make to have a good but still economical construction of this pole barn I am trying to build. I decided on a company out of PA, got all the quotes, picked my options, but what I am struggling with is the excavation/concrete/slab work.

Pole builders said they would do light excavation (IE remove grass). Concrete is 4" gravel, 4" 3500psi concrete with fibermesh. My problem is my site slopes 24" from front of the proposed garage to the rear. So I guess the options are, build a retaining wall (expensive), or do a turn down slab?

So pole builders want a level site to start... but what I am trying to understand is can you just remove grass, set up shell of garage, then I would have to bring in excavators? Then form up the turn down slab, job done?

What route would you go? Is the turn down slab enough without having to do a retaining wall? Am I over thinking this. My budget is $25k to do this whole job, and it's starting to look like I'm gonna have to wait on drywall and electric, ha!

 

[astroracer]

If you want the barn level to the front of the structure, you will still need to peel off the top soil over the entire foot print and then bring in fill to raise the back of the barn level to the front. Compacting is a necessity. Talk to your contractor, they will know the best way to handle this. A 12" rat wall in the front will turn into a 36" wall in the back. Extra cost for sure but the best way to handle the grade. May even drop the rear wall below grade to prevent the fill from blowing out the bottom of the wall.
Mark

 

[brass89]

I guess I'm not understanding what the purpose of this pole barn is for, the application of it. Most pole barns I've had a hand in putting up were done using poles..sunk into the ground like combination studs/piers around every 4ft. Granted they had dirt or gravel floors and weren't absolutely weather proof (like a garage). If going to the expense of a concrete slab, why the pole barn route? The poles in the pole barn took the place of a slab and negated the need for piers. They provided the support and uprights, then stringers were run horizontally between the poles every so often to provide a nailing surface for siding like sheet metal.

That being said, if you wanted to do a slab maybe level the site by staking out the slab area. Removing the topsoil (grass and stuff), using the dirt (minus topsoil and vegetation) to fill in the low side and compact it so you have a level surface. Put down your gravel, compact it. Then do your forms and put in concrete.

Depending what this garage/pole barn is going to be for, 4" concrete may not be enough. Might have to go with 6", far as I know 4" is pretty well the bare minimum for small buildings and porches. Also need to factor in the rebar grid for the concrete or it'll be sure to crack. Also if you're doing messy work in this garage and go the slab route, now might be the time to consider a drain if you'd like one (for hosing things down inside, a slight slope to the pad to divert water run off from spraying to the drain and a drain pipe underneath). Maybe others will have better info or suggestions.

 

[jives]

To stick build our 32 x 42 garage would require a foundation costing $25K. The pole
barn excavation (including about 200 tons of fill) is $6800, the 5" slab another $6500.
Cost to frame (stick or pole) is essentially the same. Pole barn saves about $12K on the
foundation. It will be insulated, wired, and finished on the inside.

The question, why frame?

 

[brass89]

Why would stick framing cost more for the foundation, the foundations sound similar and a stick frame you'd be attaching the sill plates to the concrete. Other than providing a concrete slab floor for a different floor finish, the pole barn (unless I'm not envisioning it properly) would be sunk into the ground providing its' own support without the need for the concrete. Similar to the way piers work. Plus a pole barn is set up with much wider spacing (3-4ft) that isn't going to be too compatible with siding and drywall. Studs in stick framing are more suited to this. I guess I always thought the reason for a pole barn construction was wider spans, less materials for larger outbuildings. Essentially supporting themselves like a giant carport with just the stringers or purlins or whatever you want to call them providing a fastening surface for things like sheet metal. By the time you went the drywall route, wouldn't you basically be stick framing anyway?

 

[notabmw1]

The purpose of this garage is I have outgrown my 16x30 attached garage. So plans were to put up a Pole Barn with concrete floor to store my cars, and work on them. Size I came up with is a 24x32. To stick build it, all the quotes I got were about 10-15k more than a Pole Barn. However what I haven't been able to get a hard number on is what it's gonna take to do the slab. They quoted me $3300 for the 4" concrete slab, with 4" gravel, and expansion joints and fibermesh. It's $1000 more to go to 6". That is fine, but that doesn't really solve the issue of how or who is going to make it work with a 2ft slope in the rear. The excavation crew gave me a quote on them doing the slab for $8500.

This picture is kind of the condition I have to deal with, granted this is not with a concrete slab.

 

[brass89]

Would think it'd be ok moving some of the earth (minus loamy top soil) to the rear. Splitting the difference. If you have 2ft difference from front to back, digging down 1ft in the front portion, moving that foot of material to the rear bringing it up 1ft, you're now level (theoretically, give or take some uneven ground). Plus factor in the gravel height and concrete height to bring you up above grade. So long as everything is compacted, should be good.

I have no idea what costs are to have stuff like that done with crews, I usually do things myself if/when I can. Cuts down tremendously on labor costs renting a skid steer or tractor. Any chance of hiring someone to run a skidsteer? I'm no pro so it takes me awhile, but for guys who are good with those things, they can level that out in around an hr, maybe 2 at most. and have it damn near dead nuts level to boot. Course it might not do wonders for your grass around the building til it got reseeded/patched.

 

[buddyboy]

let's say your pole barn is 24x24

your site is not level

step one: create building pad

you need to strip off all the loam and top soil for an area 26x26 (plus any area for drive/walk ways)

you should now have an nonlevel pad with no topsoil and a pile of topsoil set off out of the way.

now you need to make your pad level. do you add or cut? look around your building site at how water will drain. ultimatly you want your building higher than the surounding area. any hills that are driving water towards the pad? if so you'll need to create swales to divert it around and away.

from the sounds of it you're gonna need crushed limestone to raise the low areas. so you might have 30" of stone on one side of your pad and 8" on the other.

after the building is done, put the topsoil around the building creating a slope away... again most of this topsoil will be on one side of the building.

good luck

 

[SALIV8]

i hired a gc to handle everything. He is amish and his crew was outstanding. took care of everything from day one and subbed out site prep and concrete.

why not use a gc?

 

[brass89]

geez, people actually WANT clay? i must be sitting on a goldmine lmao. i have maybe 1-2" of anything resembling topsoil and rock crumbles and beneath it, clay. all clay. tried to dig it out this summer with a tractor, hoping to find something else beneath it. 3 ft down..yup, more clay. haha

 

[dodgeking3171]

my shed just got done today. so things to think about

i had the same ammount of fill brought in, about 3 ft front to back of sloap on a 30x40. i ended up buying a dump truck and doing it myself, but that was my goal. i removed my old garage myself, removed walnut trees myself, ect. build on the cheap. the fill for me would have been 20 trips at 190 per trip for the hauling in. now it was 20 trips for 50 per trip including my fuel. not bad.

next, think about your service doors, mine was built by a builder due to my wife in the hospital with our first child. i just dont have the time now. but my door opens backwards already makes me mad.