Pole barn DYI questions

[Klbhammond]

So I am sort of older school and think the traditional dig post holes and concrete posts in the ground but see the new technique is to pour a concrete pillar 10”x4’ and sink the post support in the concrete and bolt to the post.is this method better or no?

 

[472scout]

Pillar will last basically forever. Buried will eventually rot, but in Texas that could be 100 years or more. Bottom line if you get the correct treated wood it will out live you. So unless you're passing it along to kids and kid's kids pillars might be a waste of money.

 

[Klbhammond]

Good point. I was thinking of it like a fence post they last forever like you said so I would have to say I agree. I am planning to build a barn and sort of stuck on post spacing and trusses spacing. Any advice ? Meaning should the post be 6x6 spread out 8’ and then trusses next very 8’ also or 4’ on a double header !”?

 

[472scout]

Have you checked with your building dept. or do you not need a permit? Some counties have pre-approved plans that spell everything out. Example: https://www.larimer.org/sites/default/files/uploads/2017/pole_structures.pdf

Too many pole barns get destroyed by wind so even if you don't need a permit I would still buy an engineered pole building package or plans that meets the wind load for your area. At the very least copy the material list in an engineered package and pay attention to using the correct fasteners as well.

 

[lardy1]

Where I live that's all dictated by the building codes.

 

[matt_i]

So I am sort of older school and think the traditional dig post holes and concrete posts in the ground but see the new technique is to pour a concrete pillar 10”x4’ and sink the post support in the concrete and bolt to the post.is this method better or no?

My opinion is if you do the assembly you need to have your engineering in order. While its just fine for vertical loads, bolting a wood post to an underground monument is not necessarily as-good-as the wooden post surrounded by dirt when it comes to overtipping moment-loads. You can use bolted steel knife plates to transfer the forces but what size to make all of this is where some analysis is needed. Using deck-building components isn't appropriate for an enclosed building structure in my opinion.

However, Perma-Columns have this sorted out and well-validated from what I see.

If you poured the concrete around the post then then it would have a lot more bearing capability on the soil but could be a closed-bottom pocket that would concentrate moisture forevermore and rot the post out prematurely.

 

[joe49]

Just a tip that maybe the same in your area. Here in La Salle county, Il if you are considered bona fide agricultural you do not have to build to the international building code. Which does save a lot of money. A recent neighbors build was in for $50000 that would have cost $35000 as Ag.

 

[matt_i]

Just a tip that maybe the same in your area. Here in La Salle county, Il if you are considered bona fide agricultural you do not have to build to the international building code. Which does save a lot of money. A recent neighbors build was in for $50000 that would have cost $35000 as Ag.

I am curious what the difference in price is? Is it just the hassle and time of dealing with building + zoning, plan review, and all of the inspections?

Or is there something in the construction that is modified?

I would take that deal all day long, charge a flat $15k just to manage the permitting and inspection process!!!

 

[joe49]

Here as ag the lumber does not have to be rated, you can even use native timber lumber. While the non ag has everything graded and to code and needs inspections. This adds to the labor required. This is not to say it's the wild west, if anything the ag builds are often over built, but still at lower cost.

 

[472scout]

My opinion is if you do the assembly you need to have your engineering in order. While its just fine for vertical loads, bolting a wood post to an underground monument is not necessarily as-good-as the wooden post surrounded by dirt when it comes to overtipping moment-loads. You can use bolted steel knife plates to transfer the forces but what size to make all of this is where some analysis is needed. Using deck-building components isn't appropriate for an enclosed building structure in my opinion.

However, Perma-Columns have this sorted out and well-validated from what I see.

If you poured the concrete around the post then then it would have a lot more bearing capability on the soil but could be a closed-bottom pocket that would concentrate moisture forevermore and rot the post out prematurely.

Yes, no reason to use deck components as the same company (Midwest) that makes perma-columns makes concrete pier brackets. Engineering data is in the user guide.

https://www.midwestpermacolumn.com/sturdi-wall-plus-wet-set-concrete-anchor-brackets

 

[matt_i]

Yes, no reason to use deck components as the same company (Midwest) that makes perma-columns makes concrete pier brackets. Engineering data is in the user guide.

https://www.midwestpermacolumn.com/sturdi-wall-plus-wet-set-concrete-anchor-brackets

Those are quite good.

But: $46 for the bracket, $5 for the hardware, and 2.2cuft of concrete in a 10" x 48" hole....2.2cuft, about 4 x 80lb bags @ $4 each you're easily into $66 for each post, rounding dollars low & counting nothing for shipping the brackets.

Digging the hole is same labor & tool either way.

 

[472scout]

Those are quite good.

But: $46 for the bracket, $5 for the hardware, and 2.2cuft of concrete in a 10" x 48" hole....2.2cuft, about 4 x 80lb bags @ $4 each you're easily into $66 for each post, rounding dollars low & counting nothing for shipping the brackets.

Digging the hole is same labor & tool either way.

IMO they're not worth the expense for a typical shop unless one is building in a really wet area like Mississippi, Louisiana. I would bet money that 99.99999999% of the time when posts rot it's due to not using the correct posts and/or water issues. Not sloping the ground, sprinklers hitting the side of the building for decades, no eaves on the building, etc.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Pillar will last basically forever. Buried will eventually rot, but in Texas that could be 100 years or more.

Is typical PT resistant to insects, long term ?

FYI - If you are going to DIY, use "built up" posts, 2x6 or 2x8 nailed together. You top plate where the rafters/trusses rest should be "let in" to the post, which is simple with a built up post.

 

[472scout]

Is typical PT resistant to insects, long term ?

FYI - If you are going to DIY, use "built up" posts, 2x6 or 2x8 nailed together. You top plate where the rafters/trusses rest should be "let in" to the post, which is simple with a built up post.

Yes, but usually only the bottom section is treated.
Read this: https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2015/fpl_2015_lebow003.pdf

Laminated posts are great for being strong and straight, but what are ya building? 60x80x18 ft fully finished taj mahal or a 20x30x10 dirt floor equipment shed.