Pole barn - fixing a mistake

[rduda]

Hello everyone.

I'm building a 30 x 24 x 10 post frame garage and I have a question about fixing an error I made.

This is my first time taking on a project of this nature so while it has gone pretty well given my lack of experience, I have made a couple of oops, just nothing that wasn't easily remedied until now.

I started putting up purlins I noticed things weren't adding up. Come to find out, one of my corner posts (4x6) warped pretty drastically at some point after setting it and I did not realize it before nailing all my girts and headers. About 4 feet from the top it warps in about 1.75", bringing my outer truss with it.

I figure there are three options.

1. Leave it and deal with it.
2. Try and bend it back. Leave all girts up to the bend nailed but cut the nails on the upper girts and headers at the post, then either wedge a board in betweeh the two posts or use a chain and puller to try and flex just the top of the post - then nail the headers and girts back in. This would leave a 1.75" gap between the side wall lumber and the back wall girts/truss as they are already cut to length. Not sure if that is OK per codes?
3. The right way, I assume. Bend the post back as described above then put up new headers and girts the right length. Really don't want to go there, that's a lot of 20 pennies to cut in order to remove those headers entirely.

Hope this isn't too confusing.


Thanks in advance!

 

[PugetDude]

Need pics!

 

[rduda]

Need pics!

It won't let me post a picture because I am new.

 

[timewarp]

I don't think that trying to straighten the post if it's warped that much in 4 feet would be a good idea, if it is just bent in the one plane, just remove/cut the nails on the outside of the bend and then add material to space the girts out and support the truss in the correct location. Leaving the existing lumber with a gap between the side pieces and the end pieces shouldn't be a problem as long as you remember not to put a screw in the siding at that location where there would be nothing to screw to.

 

[rduda]

I don't think that trying to straighten the post if it's warped that much in 4 feet would be a good idea, if it is just bent in the one plane, just remove/cut the nails on the outside of the bend and then add material to space the girts out and support the truss in the correct location. Leaving the existing lumber with a gap between the side pieces and the end pieces shouldn't be a problem as long as you remember not to put a screw in the siding at that location where there would be nothing to screw to.

That's a good call, I didn't think of that. That would be sufficient for codes? I have to have this inspected before I put steel on it so I just want to make sure I'm doing things by the book. Thanks!

 

[bullnerd]

I personally would fix it now the best you can.

It will bite you in the *** when you go to do the steel siding, (not to mention interior whatever?) that stuff is not very forgiving.

Pics would really help.

I would cut relief slots in the post and straighten it out, then re-enforce where needed and hidden.

 

[d300]

Talk with your inspector and ask what he will sign off on.
A 4x6 seems a bit small for a corner post but that also makes it easier to fix. If the inspector allows shims then that will be the easiest but you can also replace the top half of the post. Just sister another 4x6 along side from ground up. Use plenty of ½" lags or through bolts.

 

[greg13]

Talk with your inspector and ask what he will sign off on.
A 4x6 seems a bit small for a corner post but that also makes it easier to fix. If the inspector allows shims then that will be the easiest but you can also replace the top half of the post. Just sister another 4x6 along side from ground up. Use plenty of ½" lags or through bolts.

I agree, but the one unanswered question is Has the post stopped warping yet?
If it keeps moving you really have no choice but to replace it.

 

[rburke65]

Could you square it off using a chain saw? And, as said, a photo would really help.

 

[theoldwizard1]

#3, bause that warp has pulled and twisted everything it is attached to.

 

[joey1320]

I take it you inserted the post into the concrete as opposed to using brackets?

 

[Flail]

Run a diagonal brace from the highest inline point on the post down to the base of an adjacent post. Then use a ratchet strap to pull the top into line. Frame it up, put some braces in the appropriate places. I framed my shop with a lot of wet lumber. You can move it a lot more than you think. It’s just a matter of bracing and pulling it into place.

 

[rduda]

A photo should be up soon, PugetDude offered to post it for me because I am restricted.

I personally would fix it now the best you can.

It will bite you in the *** when you go to do the steel siding, (not to mention interior whatever?) that stuff is not very forgiving.

Pics would really help.

I would cut relief slots in the post and straighten it out, then re-enforce where needed and hidden.

I agree, I would like to do the best fix that will allow my gable to be straight and not deal with an inner wall that is out of plumb.

I agree, but the one unanswered question is Has the post stopped warping yet?
If it keeps moving you really have no choice but to replace it.

The warp happened before I got everything nailed up as far as I can tell, everything else is straight still. Two 2x10 headers, four 2x4 and one 2x6 girts, and two 2x8 footers - it seems unlikely that the post could warp any more, no? Hopefully not, because replacing the post at this point is not an option, unfortunately.

#3, bause that warp has pulled and twisted everything it is attached to.

The warp must have happened before I nailed the top girts and headers in. Not sure how I didn't notice it at that point

I take it you inserted the post into the concrete as opposed to using brackets?

Yeah, it's sitting on a prefab concrete footer then a couple of bags of quickrete and backfill.

Run a diagonal brace from the highest inline point on the post down to the base of an adjacent post. Then use a ratchet strap to pull the top into line. Frame it up, put some braces in the appropriate places. I framed my shop with a lot of wet lumber. You can move it a lot more than you think. It’s just a matter of bracing and pulling it into place.

The top is warped in towards the 2nd post (sidewall) so I'd have to pull the top out away from the building. I can get my truck back there and hook onto my hitch with a come along. The only problem is then I may have to replace the headers and uppermost girt as they will then be a couple inches too short. Not a fun job...I'll have to see what the inspector has to say.

Talk with your inspector and ask what he will sign off on.
A 4x6 seems a bit small for a corner post but that also makes it easier to fix. If the inspector allows shims then that will be the easiest but you can also replace the top half of the post. Just sister another 4x6 along side from ground up. Use plenty of ½" lags or through bolts.

Yeah, I'll have to give him a call. I agree about the posts seeming small, I purchased this as a kit from a local pole barn supplier and was surprised when I realized they don't use 6x6's or lams.

Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[rayra]

cut the purlin attachments and replace the warped post is the best way.

if you think the post is done warping, you could add shim material to put the purlins where they are supposed to be. But if it's warped that bad already it's not going to stop. You need to get it out of your building.

 

[rduda]

cut the purlin attachments and replace the warped post is the best way.

if you think the post is done warping, you could add shim material to put the purlins where they are supposed to be. But if it's warped that bad already it's not going to stop. You need to get it out of your building.

It doesn't seem to have warped any since nailing it all in so I'm pretty optimistic that it's done (or at least held in place good enough that it can't move). I have no idea how I'd get that post out of there if that were the case.

 

[rayra]

is it a pole-pole, or a laminated 2x6 post? If it's the later you could do some surgery on it and make a good splice joint and remove the warped section and replace with new lumber. Cutting the post just below where the warp begins.

Is there a clause in your build contract about serviceability and quality, any warranty? having a post warp so soon is not satisfactory and the builder ought to be on the hook for correcting the issue.
If you are building it yourself you ought to be able to figure out how to excise the bad pole. It kinda comes out the same way it went in. You just need a boom lift or bucket with enough strength and vertical lift to chain up that pole and pull it and any footign right out of the ground. You cut a section out of the top end so there room to lift the bottom end and you won't even have to disturb the roof it's already in place. You just need to temp shore that corner of the structure while you excise the bad post like a rotten tooth.

 

[rduda]

is it a pole-pole, or a laminated 2x6 post? If it's the later you could do some surgery on it and make a good splice joint and remove the warped section and replace with new lumber. Cutting the post just below where the warp begins.

Is there a clause in your build contract about serviceability and quality, any warranty? having a post warp so soon is not satisfactory and the builder ought to be on the hook for correcting the issue.
If you are building it yourself you ought to be able to figure out how to excise the bad pole. It kinda comes out the same way it went in. You just need a boom lift or bucket with enough strength and vertical lift to chain up that pole and pull it and any footign right out of the ground. You cut a section out of the top end so there room to lift the bottom end and you won't even have to disturb the roof it's already in place. You just need to temp shore that corner of the structure while you excise the bad post like a rotten tooth.

They're 4x6 solid posts. I wish they were laminated. Unfortunately this is a DIY job I dont have access to any equipment so I'd have to pay someone.

 

[rduda]

Cant get pics to show up but heres a link at least.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d9iVo1rdPZ3qIZlsYV631BIZmvnAIo6g

 

[GMCGarage]

You need to look at the structural aspect of this. With 1.75" of deflection already, when this thing is loaded up, will it move more?

Who designed it? Did you have to have sealed drawings? Have them sign of on it.

If you dont fix it, and then finish it all, and then the BD asks for it to be fixed, where are you then?

 

[PugetDude]

OK, guys, here's a picture...doesn't look that bad to me.

If that were my building, I'd address it by cutting or pulling the girt nails, cut into the 4x6 post a third to halfway through just above the lowest horizontal girt, straighten it up with a come-along, fill with a wedge, and double sister the post with 2x's on the inside adjacent sides. Just for overkill, I'd add a couple of big Simpson reinforcing plates at the lap and lag though the 2x sisters into the 4x6. Re-nail everything and you're done- in a couple of hours.

I'm sure there will be other opinions...

 

[joey1320]

OK, guys, here's a picture...doesn't look that bad to me.

If that were my building, I'd address it by cutting or pulling the girt nails, cut into the 4x6 post a third to halfway through just above the lowest horizontal girt, straighten it up with a come-along, fill with a wedge, and double sister the post with 2x's on the inside adjacent sides. Just for overkill, I'd add a couple of big Simpson reinforcing plates at the lap and lag though the 2x sisters into the 4x6. Re-nail everything and you're done- in a couple of hours.

I'm sure there will be other opinions...

I like your repair idea.

 

[rduda]

OK, guys, here's a picture...doesn't look that bad to me.

If that were my building, I'd address it by cutting or pulling the girt nails, cut into the 4x6 post a third to halfway through just above the lowest horizontal girt, straighten it up with a come-along, fill with a wedge, and double sister the post with 2x's on the inside adjacent sides. Just for overkill, I'd add a couple of big Simpson reinforcing plates at the lap and lag though the 2x sisters into the 4x6. Re-nail everything and you're done- in a couple of hours.

I'm sure there will be other opinions...

I am leaning towards this fix, no pun intended. Would you replace the headers with longer ones or no? Seems like if I sistered 2x6's there would be more meat to attach the existing ones. I'll call the inspector this week and see what he suggests just to be sure.

Thank you everyone for the input!

 

[PugetDude]

I am leaning towards this fix, no pun intended. Would you replace the headers with longer ones or no? Seems like if I sistered 2x6's there would be more meat to attach the existing ones. I'll call the inspector this week and see what he suggests just to be sure.

Thank you everyone for the input!

The headers will still be attached to the post; but they will be ~1-3/4" short of the end of the post. If you're concerned, sister a full length one next to the existing headers, run a handful of Simpson structural screws in to secure them and call it done. Your inspector will have to sign off on this, though.

 

[bullnerd]

Done yet?