Pole Barn Framing: Bookshelf Girts

[Boyd]

I'm in the very early planning stages for a custom 36'x50'x12' pole barn (footprint drawing below) and have a question about the framing. I plan on using bookshelf girts to make the interior finish go more smoothly, but I'm unsure of how to do the top plate. I'd like to do a double top plate, probably 2x10s, sandwiching the poles. But in order to make them flush I'll need to notch the top of the posts, which will be 6"x6".

So my question is, will it be ok to notch both sides of the posts, leaving only 2.5" of post material between the plates? Or would it be better to use a single top plate so that I'm only notching one side?

 

[orangeracer]

Do you have solid poles or laminated poles?

 

[Boyd]

Neither, yet. I've searched for laminated poles but I haven't been able to locate a supplier near me, so I'll most likely use solid poles. Although, I've also debated the idea of making my own laminated posts.

 

[Boyd]

Bump for the day crowd.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Save yourself a bunch of headaches and go stick built.
Few bucks more up front...but by the time you get the whole thing finished inside & out, you might end up cheaper, if not same cost, with the bonus & true payback being a ton less headaches going stick.

 

[jomobco]

Boyd: Have a look at my profile. Lots of pics of my build. It might answer your questions.

Spud - spoken like someone who only knows one method

 

[mx842]

Why notch anything? The proper way to do the top plate is for them to sit on the top of the poles. Most people that build pole barns themselves don't do it that way though they just measure up the pole to the desired height and nail them to the post. I did mine that way......like you posted, the post sandwiched between the grits. I used 2x6's on my 32' wide barn but I used a third 2x6 laying flat in-between the post and the grits on top to give a nice flat surface for the truss to sit on.

I didn't mind the post showing every 8' in my interior walls so I nailed my 2x4 framing to hold my insulation and nail my plywood right to the inside of the grit. This left me room for 31/2" of insulation and once my plywood was nailed it left about an inch an a half of the post showing on the inside. If you don't want to see the post you can notch the 2x's at the top so they flush out with the post. I wish now that I had done mine that way because it would have saved a lot of 2x4's because the way I did it I had to use 2 extra for each post for nailers. It would also give more room between the medal siding and the insulation or even thicker insulation if needed.

These walls are no load bearing so you can space them as far apart as needed to accommodate what ever width insulation you can get. Mine are on 2' and that worked out pretty good and seemed to work well with the 1/2" OSB plywood I used especially since I placed blocking every 4'.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Boyd: Have a look at my profile. Lots of pics of my build. It might answer your questions.

Spud - spoken like someone who only knows one method

Nah, I have experience with both, wouldn't be afraid of either construction method....we've got Pole buildings on the farm. Cant beat em price or performance wise when used as they were originally intended...Shells/Dry Storage.

Second piece of why I feel that way is my recent shopping for buildings. With my wife out of work (by choice for the kids), and us wanting/needing a garage I had originally started shopping for a pole building, figure it was cheaper to get up, give us the building we wanted and then finish it out down the road when she goes back to work. Came REALLY close to pulling the trigger on one using Permacolumns and then I sat down to really crunch the numbers. The end goal was the same..to have an insulated/sheetrocked/painted/heated/etc.. By going with a conventional building, finish products are plentiful and competitive and things are "easy" Same observation would apply to building with rough sawn lumber..Had a buddy who did it to save money..hindsight being 20/20 he regrets it because everything he does has been "Custom".. Entry/Man door was 3x more expensive as a special order, insulation, etc.
Another example, R19 insulation... Around here R19 16"OC Insulation sells for 35/36 cents a Sq ft, go with 24" OC and the same R19, Same Brand, goes to 65 Cents a square foot...MUCH Cheaper to buy a couple extra 2x6's and go 16" OC.
So by the time you buy all the poles, framing for bookshelves, and such is it REALLY cheaper/better/easier? I know even just for me without even talking about the interior, having/wanting to go with Vinyl Siding and Asphalt roofing made the math different. Having to sheath a pole barn vs just 2x4 girts changes the math QUICKLY.

If I or the OP were looking to have a weather tight shell to park whatever in there I would say without a doubt, pole...when I hear the words "Bookshelf girts so I can finish it" that's when I think the math shifts to a stick building. And to be fair, maybe lumber is cheaper here in New England...so the math may be different for your area.

 

[Chitown_hillbilly]

Nah, And to be fair, maybe lumber is cheaper here in New England...so the math may be different for your area.

I think that's probably the biggest key, that and the amount of DIY involved. Like I said before, for my 30x40x10 I have a a finished Pole barn for a little more than $5k cheaper than my least expensive unfinished Garage quote. Now that was having a Pole barn Company erect the shell and I did everything else. Garage company was doing the shell, doors and slab and I was doing everything else.

 

[Boyd]

I've crunched all of the numbers. I'll come out about $5-7k ahead by going with pole barn construction and another $2-3k doing the work myself. I can't ignore those savings. That savings will pay for insulation, hvac, and a lift.

 

[chadman]

I framed mine out with standard 2x4 girts on the outside of the poles and then went in later and added 2x6's horizontally on 2' centers for the interior framing.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I've crunched all of the numbers. I'll come out about $5-7k ahead by going with pole barn construction and another $2-3k doing the work myself. I can't ignore those savings. That savings will pay for insulation, hvac, and a lift.

I would do the same in your position...here, when comparing the 2 methods with the same end product in mind...100% DIY either way, 7k more to go pole w/Perma Columns, closer to 5k if I went with wood in the ground.

 

[bimmer1980]

One other thing to consider... Many of your pole barn style building packages will sell insulation bats that are the width between the poles. Then you just nail 2x4 or 2x6 girts to the inside of the poles and put on your wall material, steel, sheetrock, osb, etc. This goes fast and is not as tedious as framing out a full stud wall.

With continuous inside girts, just plan them at the right height and spacing to match what you want to hand on them.... i.e a french cleat for cabinets, etc....

With this method, you have some thermal breaks. Your only direct thermal conduction is where the girts cross over the poles. Of course, you are still limited in R-value by the insulation, but this method has less square area of thermal conductivity as compared to stud walls on 16" centers.

best of luck...

P.s. I added a picture of my shop that is in SD that we used this method....