Pole Barn framing question

[ddjjeep]

OK, so Im building a pole barn "type" building, seen here in this thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2069

I have a question about framing my gable ends. As I see it, I have two options, I can do it with conventional 2x6 stick framing 24" OC and just tip it up in place. Or I could use some 4x6 or 6x6s and put them ~6' OC like the side walls of the building.
Im leaning towards using the poles 6' on center just because it would use less materials, and make it easier for framing in windows and door ways.
this is mostly a question for the back wall, as the front gable end will have 2 10'x10' doors and there wont be a whole lot of wall to realy frame.
Any opinions on this matter? The end walls in my application are not load baring walls, so thats not realy a consideration. here's a pic of what Im working with:

 

[Sundowner]

that frame in that thread used those socket systems connectors.
they're kinda pricey for my tastes, but they are nice.
if you're a real skinflint like me, and you can weld, you can make those little socket brackets out of 6"x6"x1/4" thick square steel structural tubing.

if you're looking for ideas, I'm a structural engineer by trade, and here's some gable end framing for my own garage project:

and here's the joint where the gable end lands on the top sill

here's a drawing of the completed garage:

this is a lot of work, and not for the weak of constitution, I designed them to be for the guy who has more free time than money. those socket system bracket are rediculously faster to assemble, but you pay more for it.

 

[ddjjeep]

I agree, and I could have made them my self, but for the money, I wouldnt have been that far ahead doing it on my own. Between the cost of steel and the time it saved me just buying prefabbed parts was worth it. I also bought them for less than what they are listed for now (they had a price increase recently)
I almost would have prefered to build the structure more traditionaly with no metal parts, like a real post and beam structure...but it would have taken more time and effort than I have to give right now. Over all Im very happy with the kits I bought, they took any guess work and fabrication work out of it for me, they were reasonably priced and accurately built, and the building went together fast and went up well.

 

[Sundowner]

I agree, and I could have made them my self, but for the money, I wouldnt have been that far ahead doing it on my own. Between the cost of steel and the time it saved me just buying prefabbed parts was worth it. I also bought them for less than what they are listed for now (they had a price increase recently)
I almost would have prefered to build the structure more traditionaly with no metal parts, like a real post and beam structure...but it would have taken more time and effort than I have to give right now. Over all Im very happy with the kits I bought, they took any guess work and fabrication work out of it for me, they were reasonably priced and accurately built, and the building went together fast and went up well.

ok, now I see the problem more clearly. my fault for not reading it thoroughly enough.
since you have those sockets set up, I gotta ask, how are you planning on building the header over the garage doors? it's gonna be a pretty big span for a wood member.
and I agree that a post-beam arrangement will be the most cost effective for you. I'd stick with with a 4' spacing to make life easier when you go to sheathe it over, since the 6' spacing will be a pain with standard 4x8 plywood.

 

[ddjjeep]

ok, now I see the problem more clearly. my fault for not reading it thoroughly enough.
since you have those sockets set up, I gotta ask, how are you planning on building the header over the garage doors? it's gonna be a pretty big span for a wood member.
and I agree that a post-beam arrangement will be the most cost effective for you. I'd stick with with a 4' spacing to make life easier when you go to sheathe it over, since the 6' spacing will be a pain with standard 4x8 plywood.

the header will be built with 2x8s/ 3 layers thick. there is a 2' wide wall between the two doors and 2' of wall on either side of them. that will help support the header. I dont think that the header will have to be super strong, as the wall isnt a load bearing wall, so there will not be much weight above the header.
As far as post spacing, Im not sheathing the building with plywood, instead I put up 2x6 girts that run horizontaly and Im using rough cut 1x8 pine in a verticle fassion with batton strips to cover the seams. (typical board and batton used on many barns).
Is mostly the back wall that I was looking for advise on. Im realy leaning towards post framing it as opposed to conventional stick framing it at this point.

 

[3/4tonYJ]

I'm thinking i would go with 4x6's or 6x6 poles (whatever matches the ones you already have, i can't tell from picture) but they'd make good supports for the 10' door headers, and using them for the back wall would just match the rest of the building...........just my .02

fyi, i got a similar size pole building myself.... http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4191

 

[krooser]

Mine is simply the end truss with siding......

 

[Sundowner]

the header will be built with 2x8s/ 3 layers thick. there is a 2' wide wall between the two doors and 2' of wall on either side of them. that will help support the header. I dont think that the header will have to be super strong, as the wall isnt a load bearing wall, so there will not be much weight above the header.
As far as post spacing, Im not sheathing the building with plywood, instead I put up 2x6 girts that run horizontaly and Im using rough cut 1x8 pine in a verticle fassion with batton strips to cover the seams. (typical board and batton used on many barns).
Is mostly the back wall that I was looking for advise on. Im realy leaning towards post framing it as opposed to conventional stick framing it at this point.

believe it or not, the major load on that header won't comve from vertical weight.
were I you, I'd run the header full width from outside post to outside post and use steel plates to connect the ehader to the posts. the header will then actas a tension chorh pulling the posts together and resisting the outward thrust from the roof rafters. I'd reccomend you use 2x10's instead of 2x8's for your header. then run your posts to the underside of the header and run cripple posts between the header and the rafters at whatever spacing is convienent for you.

 

[ddjjeep]

believe it or not, the major load on that header won't comve from vertical weight.
were I you, I'd run the header full width from outside post to outside post and use steel plates to connect the ehader to the posts. the header will then actas a tension chorh pulling the posts together and resisting the outward thrust from the roof rafters. I'd reccomend you use 2x10's instead of 2x8's for your header. then run your posts to the underside of the header and run cripple posts between the header and the rafters at whatever spacing is convienent for you.

that makes sense, I had planned to attatch it to the outside posts as well, but will defianately make sure that is a key part of the instalation now. Do you think that 2x10s three layers thick will be sufficiant for a 25' span (with the center supports as well)?

 

[Sundowner]

that makes sense, I had planned to attatch it to the outside posts as well, but will defianately make sure that is a key part of the instalation now. Do you think that 2x10s three layers thick will be sufficiant for a 25' span (with the center supports as well)?

If you're splitting the one gable end into two seperate bay doors with a center support, it will be enough. if you plan on having that whole 25' as one simple span, you'd have to tie the header into the rafters and make it a truss.

 

[ddjjeep]

If you're splitting the one gable end into two seperate bay doors with a center support, it will be enough. if you plan on having that whole 25' as one simple span, you'd have to tie the header into the rafters and make it a truss.

Nope, it will be split. there will be a 24" wide section of wall between the doors.

 

[Pony-boy]

Hate to pry.
Price check so far.

I am really leaning toward the socket system.........

 

[ddjjeep]

Hate to pry.
Price check so far.

I am really leaning toward the socket system.........

Id say Im at roughly $5-6K, but that includes the $2k for the slab. The roofing was just over $1000. Rough cut lumber is fairly cheap (at least around here) compared to regular KD framing lumber.

 

[Pony-boy]

Thanks.

Ruff cut is going to be really cheap for me. Nearly free since I work at
a Lumber mill. I can't wait to get things going on this as soon as I get into the House.