Pole barn wall framing

[DirtRoad]

I would like to know what everyone did to frame in between their posts. I did a search and read hundreds of threads over the past couple weeks but I wasn’t very successful in finding much.

I think my options are to:

1. Run 2x4’s horizontally on the face of the posts (just like the perlins that the steel siding is screwed to) starting at the bottom flush to the floor and then work my way up keeping 15” in between the 2x4’s so that I can use 15” wide batts or rolls of insulation. 15” wide batts or rolls are way cheaper than 23” batts or rolls. I would use more 2x4 keeping the 15” separation but in the end I would save a good chunk of cash not using 23” insulation. I would also put 2x4’s in between the 2x4’s on the posts.

I couldn’t find any thread where someone did it this way, is there maybe a reason why this wont work? I don’t see why not. This is definitely the cheapest and easiest option I can think of.

2. Build a wall conventionally just like you would if you were building a house. Then bolt the bottom 2x4 to the floor and screw the top plate to the header, the wall would be flush to the header of course. I would also have to run a 2x4 the full length of the post so that the posts are flush to the header and to delete the gap between walls.

This method would cost a lot more in material and it would also be a lot more labor intensive and time consuming.

What did you do?

Or is there any reason why I shouldn’t go with option 1?

 

[thightower]

Take a look at the Morton building wab site. Dad had them build mine in 1981, still standing strong. They nail the 2x4's to the post like perlin. Maybe this will help.

 

[orange72blazer]

I ran the 2x4's horizontally on the face of the posts every 24" starting at the floor, I left the top 2x4 off & ran the insulation vertically. I used r21 insulation (I think it was about 6 1/2 " thick). I pulled the insulation down from the top to the floor then nailed the top 2x4 & then hung the drywall. I can get some pics if you want.

 

[DirtRoad]

Take a look at the Morton building wab site. Dad had them build mine in 1981, still standing strong. They nail the 2x4's to the post like perlin. Maybe this will help.

I will take a look as soon as I get a chance.

I ran the 2x4's horizontally on the face of the posts every 24" starting at the floor, I left the top 2x4 off & ran the insulation vertically. I used r21 insulation (I think it was about 6 1/2 " thick). I pulled the insulation down from the top to the floor then nailed the top 2x4 & then hung the drywall. I can get some pics if you want.

That’s kinda what I want to do, it just seems to make more sense financially and minimal amount of labor.

I would LOVE some pics of what you did. It would be a HUGE help.

If anyone can provide pics of how they framed their pole barn walls I would love to see them, no matter how you did it I would love to see it.

 

[pattenp]

............... 15” wide batts or rolls are way cheaper than 23” batts or rolls.

Are you comparing price per sqft. I just priced R13 15" vs. 23" at Lowes and the 23" was the same per sqft.

 

[DirtRoad]

Are you comparing price per sqft. I just priced R13 15" vs. 23" at Lowes and the 23" was the same per sqft.

Can you post links to what you where looking at?

 

[pattenp]

I was in the Lowes store the other day pricing fiberglass batts to beef up my attic. But, here's the link to the insulation at Lowes.

http://www.lowes.com/Search=fibergl...&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=fiberglass+insulation

I also looked at R19 and the 23" was cheaper per sqft than the 15" if I recall correctly.

 

[DirtRoad]

I dont understand what is going on with that lol

I just bought the JM r13 23" wide, 11 peice pack at lowes two weeks ago for $60 and now its $35. How did that happen?

http://www.lowes.com/pd_108995-1722...on&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=insulation&facetInfo=

http://www.lowes.com/pd_91109-1722-...on&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=insulation&facetInfo=

 

[Highbeam]

Nailing to the face of the posts as you describe will not prevent the wall from moving in and out. If you leaned on the girt in the middle, the whole wall would flex and depending on your wall finish material that could be bad.

Depending on your pole spacing, mine is 12 feet OC, I would expect the 2x4s to sag if you load them with cabinets or something substantial.

You would lose floor space by putting the lumber on the face of the posts.

I plan to frame it up like a regular house, option 2, using a ramset to nail the bottom plate to the slab. Since I didn't use a header my post faces will be at the wall.

 

[pattenp]

I've seen the price of insulation go up and down wildly. One day I went into Lowes and priced a roll of R13 around $12 and a few days later went back to buy some and it was $20 something.

 

[DirtRoad]

Nailing to the face of the posts as you describe will not prevent the wall from moving in and out. If you leaned on the girt in the middle, the whole wall would flex and depending on your wall finish material that could be bad.
Depending on your pole spacing, mine is 12 feet OC, I would expect the 2x4s to sag if you load them with cabinets or something substantial.

You would lose floor space by putting the lumber on the face of the posts.

I plan to frame it up like a regular house, option 2, using a ramset to nail the bottom plate to the slab. Since I didn't use a header my post faces will be at the wall.

My posts are 8ft OC so the distance isn’t really all that much. Wall flex might still be an issue for me though. Anyone think it would be an issue with the posts being 8ft OC?

I don’t have much choice but to bring the wall out 1.5” because of the header. I don’t have to do that but the header will be exposed when I put up my finish material, still deciding what that will be.

I've seen the price of insulation go up and down wildly. One day I went into Lowes and priced a roll of R13 around $12 and a few days later went back to buy some and it was $20 something.

It must. I see that OSB does the same thing. Ive been watching OSB prices go from 10.37 to 12.37, back and forth, back and forth.

But for insulation to drop to almost half the price seems very odd. Im sure prices fluctuate but not that extreme.

 

[Highbeam]

What about the insulation sagging and blowing out from the unsupported weight at that height. If I understand this right you will be trying to get the batt to stand up inside the wall without support on the sides. Do you think it will be compressed enough from the inner and outer girts to keep it in place?

How do you plan to deal with electrical?

Your insulation will be sitting down on the concrete inside the wall. Does insulation in contact with the slab wick moisture?

I don't think your horizontal wall idea is crazy. Might be cheaper, definitely faster.

You could always nail down a bottom plate to prevent the base of the wall from getting pushed out of line.

 

[FITO]

This may not be the best way, but this is how I'm doing mine. I added R13 kraft batts before the OSB went up.

 

[DirtRoad]

What about the insulation sagging and blowing out from the unsupported weight at that height. If I understand this right you will be trying to get the batt to stand up inside the wall without support on the sides. Do you think it will be compressed enough from the inner and outer girts to keep it in place?

How do you plan to deal with electrical?

Your insulation will be sitting down on the concrete inside the wall. Does insulation in contact with the slab wick moisture?

I don't think your horizontal wall idea is crazy. Might be cheaper, definitely faster.

You could always nail down a bottom plate to prevent the base of the wall from getting pushed out of line.

I think you might be confused as to what im talking about with option 1.

Im not sure I can explain it any better though, hoping someone has done it and can post some pics, it would clear up the confusion.

Nothing you have brought up would be a problem though as far as I can tell.

This may not be the best way, but this is how I'm doing mine. I added R13 kraft batts before the OSB went up.

That’s basicly my number 2 option.
If I went that route how do I secure the bottom plate to the concrete?

 

[orange72blazer]

What about the insulation sagging and blowing out from the unsupported weight at that height. If I understand this right you will be trying to get the batt to stand up inside the wall without support on the sides. Do you think it will be compressed enough from the inner and outer girts to keep it in place?

How do you plan to deal with electrical?

Your insulation will be sitting down on the concrete inside the wall. Does insulation in contact with the slab wick moisture?

I don't think your horizontal wall idea is crazy. Might be cheaper, definitely faster.

You could always nail down a bottom plate to prevent the base of the wall from getting pushed out of line.

The way I did mine the insulation there is no way it could ever sag, it is compressed enough to hold it in place. I also used kraft faced insulation & stapled the flange of the first batt to the pole & stapled the other flange to the flange of the batt next to it so they are all tied together.

I cut out pink foam board to fit on the floor between the inner and outer girts so that the insulation would not be in contact with the slab wick & moisture.

 

[Leadfoot3232]

I ran mine horizontally inside the posts on 24" centers then ran R20 vertically behind it..worked out great..my 5" posts are on 10 ft centers,so i ripped a 2x6 lengthwise to 5" and put one in vertically halfway between each 10' span,added alot of stability,I thoroughly nailed it to the inside and outside"perlins"..anywhere I knew there was gonna be cabinets and such I ran 2"x6" horizontally instead of 2x4's for a little extra strength..

Also price around on your insulation..I found mine at a local hardware store about 1/2 a mile from Lowes for about 1/2 the cost of what Lowes was charging..paper backed batts,saved me a small fortune on a 30 x 60 building..

Tim

 

[DirtRoad]

Man i wish some of you guys had pics of what you did, its hard to visualize these things.

 

[Highbeam]

I think you might be confused as to what im talking about with option 1.


If I went that route how do I secure the bottom plate to the concrete?

I know exactly what you mean with option 1. 2x4 Girts on the inside.

You would use ramsets or redheads to attach the bottom plate to the slab.

 

[camarotoolman]

imo if you have to use all the 2x4s to insolate the dam thing why use the poles in the 1st place? Just build a stick frame from the get go.

 

[bullnerd]

imo if you have to use all the 2x4s to insolate the dam thing why use the poles in the 1st place? Just build a stick frame from the get go.

!!!!!!

Option 1,no question.

Check with your local Morton builder,they have 8' by 40' rolls of 6" insulation.

Mine wants aprox. $200 a roll.

Dont think the wall moving will be problem ,otherwise all the pole builders wouldnt do the exterior walls this way.

I have some pics from this site,let me see if I can find them.

Found them.There are a few guys on here using the wide ins,but cant find the threads ,sorry.

This is the stuff.My local building supplier cant get it,if yours can you can cut out morton the middle man.

 

[BWS]

I hear ya camaro.....

Fully tongue in cheek...."its a spread sheet thing".Balancing labor costs vs material costs.


My best "pole barn story"...and its adios for me(gotta make dinner).Once did some "homeboy" trusses for a farmer friend.These were for a pole barn.....had sort of an airplane wing look to them?I even gave the guy a lifetime warrenty.So they're in place for 10 or so years and we get a hurricane.Not a dang thing the farmer can do but watch his barn and associated outbuildings succumb to the forces involved.Long story short,the roof system I designed DID infact act like a wing.......pulled the dang posts(he installed)right the ____ out of the ground.Ripped off a few sqrs of metal roofing...destroyed his main barn,yadayada.The ONLY thing left unmolested were my trusses.

So,if you want a moral....not sayin that you do....be careful with traditional pole barns in high wind areas.What money you saved in"spread sheet" world above....may be for naught.

 

[krapie]

Option #1. They make bats 8' & 10' wide, different lengths (maybe additional widths but that is what i have used). Brother inlaw hung the 10' bats, then 2x4 purlins, then drywall. My 8' wide roll, 2x4 and metal siding are in the garage, hope to get started next week.

 

[jsf]

imo if you have to use all the 2x4s to insolate the dam thing why use the poles in the 1st place? Just build a stick frame from the get go.

b i n g o !!!

 

[IHI]

To use rolled batts you need to build "bookshelves" in between the posts and then roll it out sideways. When we finished off customer buildings we did blown in, you get greateer insulating qualities because you dont have all that additional wood framing that bridges the wall cavity. The less studs/wood, the great the R value and efficencey the insulation. Drive by any newer house in the fall or winter that has vinyl siding....you can see EVERY stud in the wall, and each of those studs is conducting cold into the actual wall itself.

Worst job, well not worst, but time consuming to a while nother degree, had a customer that wanted to finish off a bay to service his dump trucks and heavy equipment, he did'nt want purlins nailed to the outside of the posts because that would take away floor space I told him your losing 3" total on width and 3" on total length...he had to have that additional 3" and paid me to cut all these stupid little blocks to nail on the side of each post and then nail a between the posts so the purlin we installed was flush with the post face....lotta messing around. Then we had a insulation company come in, they spray foamed all the joints to make wall cavities and floor water tight, stapled up the netting to the wall's and blew in fiberglass. He was able to remove the 2-20' propane radiant heaters he had hung in the ceiling corners along each long wall of the shop, and now heats the space by leaving the walk in door open that goes to his smaller garage attached on the one side.

Furring out walls with blocks to flush mount purlins:

Framing to finish off ceiling and steel install, afterwards ceiling was insulated to R60

I did'nt take pics of the netting stapled to the wall or the blow in insulation when it was done, but it's all the standard practice like they use in new home builds, so nothing "special" about it.

then got the walls done.

 

[Flatland Dave]

Mine is done the way you describe. I'll take a pic soon and post it.

 

[IHI]

I found a picture of the house we gutted and changed everything inside and out for the same above home owner we did the truck stall above, this is the netting and blown in insulation that is used in 98% of the new homes in our area. Great stuff and works fantastic.

 

[cyamaha2007]

I went horizontal. I didnt want my walls attached to a floating slab.

 

[bullnerd]

I went horizontal. I didnt want my walls attached to a floating slab.

DAMN! thats a good point I bet a lot of people overlook.

 

[bullnerd]

Option #1. They make bats 8' & 10' wide, different lengths (maybe additional widths but that is what i have used). Brother inlaw hung the 10' bats, then 2x4 purlins, then drywall. My 8' wide roll, 2x4 and metal siding are in the garage, hope to get started next week.

You wouldnt happen to know the manufacturer of those 8' wide rolls would you?

I'd like another source also.

 

[Flatland Dave]

Here is the way mine look. Will get 2' insulation bats between the boards horizontally after electrical rough in..

[/url] IMG
IMG-20121128-00112

 

[Goobzilla]

Here is the way mine look. Will get 2' insulation bats between the boards horizontally after electrical rough in..

[/url] IMG
IMG-20121128-00112

Thanks for the pictures! I think this is how I'm going to go if I ever get around to insulating.

 

[Steevo]

Not trying to derail the thread, but someone had to really work at it to miss every nail in that siding in this shot:

 

[orange72blazer]

Here is what my unfinished wall looks like. The insulation is just sitting in there to get it off the floor, I still need to fit it around some stuff & staple it in.

[/IMG]
I put these little blocks halfway between the posts(4') to stiffen the wall up.

This is the side that is finished. I ran 5/8 drywall vertically. I have 10' walls but I could only find 8' or 12' long drywall so I went with 12' cut down to 10' so I wouldn't have any **** joints to deal with.

 

[DirtRoad]

imo if you have to use all the 2x4s to insolate the dam thing why use the poles in the 1st place? Just build a stick frame from the get go.

I didn’t build it. I bought a house and property that already had this pole barn on it. If I were to build a shop it I wouldn’t build a pole barn. IMO pole barns are for storage only. But this is what I have so I have to work with it the best I can.

 

[Leadfoot3232]

Here is what my unfinished wall looks like. The insulation is just sitting in there to get it off the floor, I still need to fit it around some stuff & staple it in.

[/IMG]
I put these little blocks halfway between the posts(4') to stiffen the wall up.

This is the side that is finished. I ran 5/8 drywall vertically. I have 10' walls but I could only find 8' or 12' long drywall so I went with 12' cut down to 10' so I wouldn't have any **** joints to deal with.

This looks just like mine except instead of the little blocks to brace the wall, I ripped a 2x6 to a 2x5 and ran it vertically halfway between each post..tieing all the perlins together..

nice job

 

[DirtRoad]

To use rolled batts you need to build "bookshelves" in between the posts and then roll it out sideways.
Furring out walls with blocks to flush mount purlins:

That is pretty much what I was thinking, you went a little further though than I would lol

Rolling the insulation out sideways is what I would like to do.

Here is the way mine look. Will get 2' insulation bats between the boards horizontally after electrical rough in..

[/url] IMG
IMG-20121128-00112

That is brilliant!

Arent those joist hangers kinda pricey though? I remember a few years ago I built a deck for a friend and I remember those hangers where like $7 apiece or more, that would add up pretty fast.

Here is what my unfinished wall looks like. The insulation is just sitting in there to get it off the floor, I still need to fit it around some stuff & staple it in.

[/IMG]
I put these little blocks halfway between the posts(4') to stiffen the wall up.

This is the side that is finished. I ran 5/8 drywall vertically. I have 10' walls but I could only find 8' or 12' long drywall so I went with 12' cut down to 10' so I wouldn't have any **** joints to deal with.

Your framing is EXACTLY what I am thinking of doing. It would be extremely cost effective and it would take no time at all to do. I could frame out all the walls in a day no problem.

However the way you did your insulation isn’t the way I want to do it. I would just run the insulation horizontally in between the studs and staple them. Just like a conventional wall just turned on its side.

Standing them up behind the studs like you did worrys me because I don’t want any air gaps and I would worry that the insulation would sag or even settle.

 

[orange72blazer]

Standing them up behind the studs like you did worrys me because I don’t want any air gaps and I would worry that the insulation would sag or even settle.

What you see in the picture isn't finished, I just threw the batts in there to get them off the floor. On the finished wall there isn't any air gaps, I cut out around the little blocks & outlets & stapled the insulation together & to the posts so that it won't sag

 

[DirtRoad]

BTW I ended up being right after all about the insulation price.

When i typed in my zip code the prices doubled.

Johns Manville 11 pack batts r13 23"x3.5"x93" is $63

Johns Manville 11 pack batts r13 15"x3.5"x93 is $27

Same thing basiclly at menards and HD also, 15" wide batts or rolls are almost half the cost of 23".

 

[DirtRoad]

What you see in the picture isn't finished, I just threw the batts in there to get them off the floor. On the finished wall there isn't any air gaps, I cut out around the little blocks & outlets & stapled the insulation together & to the posts so that it won't sag

Oh ok, maybe not a bad way to go.

 

[BrianC636]

I did mine the same way as FITO. Framed it up, made sure it was plumb then nailed it to the floor and at the top to the posts (laminated in my case). After that I foamed the walls and hung OSB.