Pole Barn Wiring Question

[77cj]

How about for safety's sake I place conduit on top of 2x6s?

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[vekster]

how about BX (AC90)? quick and easy with mechanical protection

 

[pattenp]

EMT or rigid nonmetallic(PVC) will work.

How about for safety's sake I place conduit on top of 2x6s?

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[77cj]

EMT or rigid nonmetallic(PVC) will work.

Thanks, that is what I will do then.

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[77cj]

If I'm going to use PVC conduit, would I want THHN stranded or solid? and would it need to be THHN-2?

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[JBourquin]

One piece of wire with no splices. Your second example.

Thanks, I guess I have some extra wire. I was told it had to be a "loop", and return to the panel. I also set my rods 16ft apart as I read in the NEC that the paralleling efficiency of rods is increased by spacing them twice the length of the longest rod. I used 2 8ft rods. The inspector said I only had to put them 6ft apart. I said that was minimum code and said it was recommended to go as far as I did. He simply repeated that I only needed to go 6ft apart..

250.53(A)(3)

(3) Supplemental Electrode. If multiple rod, pipe, or plate
electrodes are installed to meet the requirements of this
section, they shall not be less than 1.8 m (6 ft) apart.
Informational Note: The paralleling efficiency of rods is
increased by spacing them twice the length of the longest
rod.

 

[pattenp]

I like the stranded for pulling through conduit. The wire will most likely be THHN/THWN-2. That's how it comes.

If I'm going to use PVC conduit, would I want THHN stranded or solid? and would it need to be THHN-2?

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[pattenp]

I don't know where you read that in the NEC. The code section says the electrodes shall not be less than 6 feet apart.

Thanks, I guess I have some extra wire. I was told it had to be a "loop", and return to the panel. I also set my rods 16ft apart as I read in the NEC that it's "recommended" to place the rods at a distance twice the distance of the longest rod. I used 2 8ft rods. The inspector said I only had to put them 6ft apart. I said that was minimum code and said it was recommended to go as far as I did. He simply repeated that I only needed to go 6ft apart..

 

[JBourquin]

I changed it in the original post, its 250.53(A)(3)

 

[pattenp]

Yep, that's the right section. But it says nothing about placing the rods apart twice the distance of the longest rod. Is this a DIY book that you read this out of that also gives NEC regs?

Edit: Oh.. I got you. You're citing the informational note.

I changed it in the original post, its 250.53(A)(3)

 

[UpstateNY]

What you are saying is very true. I wasn't sure what the 2X6 was so that's why I just commented generally that the wire needs to be held away from nailing surfaces.

If he's trying to run on the top of an 1.5" wide 2x6 there is no way for him to get the 1.25" clearance away from the outside tin and the screws anchoring it to the 2x6.

If you're standing inside the barn looking at a sidewall, and the 2x6 is running parallel to the floor between the vertical poles, and the edge of the 2x6 you're looking at is the 1.5"w side (or 1.5" high in this case), then why can't you nail a romex to the top or bottom of the horizontal 2x6 ? You're nailing to a 6" or so surface, and the 6" surface is not a nailing surface ?

 

[pattenp]

I believe the 2X6 lay with the wide side vertical so you would be nailing the romex along the narrow 1.5 inch edge.

If you're standing inside the barn looking at a sidewall, and the 2x6 is running parallel to the floor between the vertical poles, and the edge of the 2x6 you're looking at is the 1.5"w side (or 1.5" high in this case), then why can't you nail a romex to the top or bottom of the horizontal 2x6 ? You're nailing to a 6" or so surface, and the 6" surface is not a nailing surface ?

 

[Aceman]

Exactly.

I believe the 2X6 lay with the wide side vertical so you would be nailing the romex along the narrow 1.5 inch edge.

 

[77cj]

OK, so what did we agree on from the last few posts? Romex on top or bottom of the 2x6 as viewed in pics would be OK or not?

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[newhollandpuller]

If you plan on finishing the walls inside now or in the future I would run the wire along the top of the header and down to the receptical - for three reasons 1. like what was said before you only have 1.5" to nail the wire to, 2. it puts the wire very close to where if some one did not know it ws there it would be easily hit trying to nail or hang something on the stringer behind a wall, and 3. if you ever needed to repull wires or chase a problem you can do it from the attic of the building. You are not saving that much wire for the headaches you could have down the road. I did the wiring this way and am very happy with it. Just my 2 cents

 

[77cj]

Thanks, how about height of recepticals and switches?

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[pattenp]

Not okay. But okay if protected in conduit.

OK, so what did we agree on from the last few posts? Romex on top or bottom of the 2x6 as viewed in pics would be OK or not?

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[pattenp]

Switches are usually installed around 52 to 54 inches. Outlets can be at what ever height you desire. But in a shop I like them to be high, so in the same height range as the switches.

Thanks, how about height of recepticals and switches?

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[Charles (in GA)]

If I'm going to use PVC conduit, would I want THHN stranded or solid? and would it need to be THHN-2?

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Stranded is somewhat easier to pull in conduit, however, it is much more difficult to terminate to receptacles and switches.

You will almost have to buy backwire type receptacles (NOT the push in type, but the spec/commercial/industrial type) so that you can put the wire in the back of the receptacle and tighten the screw and it is pinched/clamped in place by a plate, usually serrated that grips the wire tight. We recently had a discussion about this, wrapping stranded wire around screws, and while some of the pros acted like its not a problem to do it..... it simply is more trouble and the odds of you having to try, more than once to get it right, are great.

I won't use a receptacle or switch that is not backwire type.

That being said, I much prefer solid THHN and it is not that difficult to pull. I have pulled quite a few feet of it thru EMT (metallic conduit) in my building (without any help) and it was not that difficult. Either make, or buy a rack that you can mount the 500 ft spools of THHN on and if you make it, put a large enough base on it that you can weight it down some, and pull away. Sometimes I had to fabricate a "funnel" to shove up in the box at the conduit end to help smoothly feed the wire, and I'd pull a few feet, lube up some more and pull it and lube some more.

Not sure what pulling thru PVC is like, I only use it for outdoors, underground, or very unusual installations. I used EMT for everything inside the building.

Rec on left is cheapie push in type, rec on right is much better screw and clamp type, usually marked spec, commercial, or industrial.

Charles

 

[77cj]

That's great information. I exchanged the service panel yesterday and picked up 2-8' grounding rods and #6 solid wire. Probably pick up the MHF cable tomorrow on lunch then you know where I'll be this weekend!!

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[77cj]

Alright I'm picking up where I left off last week. Getting ready to buy and run receptacles on 20 amp, 12 ga. circuit. In looking at probably 4-6 receptacles on a circuit and from reading on her it looks like you cannot run a common neutral on the first gfi? Will I want to run all gfi's in all receptacles?

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[pattenp]

I'm not following the common neutral question for GFCI. Are you saying that your outlet circuits are wired as a multiwire branch circuit, meaning you have one neutral with two hots serving as two circuits sharing the one neutral?

Alright I'm picking up where I left off last week. Getting ready to buy and run receptacles on 20 amp, 12 ga. circuit. In looking at probably 4-6 receptacles on a circuit and from reading on her it looks like you cannot run a common neutral on the first gfi? Will I want to run all gfi's in all receptacles?

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[77cj]

I was thinking you could share the responsibility if a gfi by installing at the beginning of a circuit and running the common across the gfi to protect the rest of the circuit.

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[VHF]

You can protect several receptacles off one GFCI receptacle. Both the hot and neutral for the "downstream" receptacles needs to be connected to the "LOAD" terminals on the GFCI receptacle.

 

[pattenp]

Your use of "common" and "neutral" together threw me off. Just as VHF said you can protect down stream outlets from one gfci outlet when they are wired off the load side of the gfci outlet.

I was thinking you could share the responsibility if a gfi by installing at the beginning of a circuit and running the common across the gfi to protect the rest of the circuit.

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[77cj]

OK great, I thought I read someone stating an article in NEC saying that you couldn't do that anymore. Meaning protecting other receptacles through a "removable" receptacle. It was probably for a different wiring setup. Sorry pattenp, I know my terminology is in need of improvement. I almost know enough to be dangerous!

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