Pole barns for a business

[Cheap5.0]

My employer (also my father) has thought of moving his shop out of the city, and to some land he owns in a rural area of MI. Well, with the city taxes going through the roof this year it looks like if he moves this will be the catalysts for the move.

The business deals with live fish, and lots of them. Because of this, its a high humidity tropical environment year round in the "fish room". We have been 79 F. and 85% humidity for about 35 years now.

What kind of challenges would this environment bring into using a pole barn for the shop? He was worried about the typical paper backed roll insulation getting soaked/rotting. Is this a valid concern?

We looked into having it spray foamed, and to be honest even though this is a successful business....the cost of a pro spraying it was very high. It was about 1/2 the cost of the building.

We are looking for feedback on this idea, any thing that you can think of is appreciated!

 

[NUTTSGT]

Farmers do it all the time, do you realize how much moisture is in the air of a moo moo barn ?

 

[CARS]

Farmers do it all the time, do you realize how much moisture is in the air of a moo moo barn ?

True, but all the barns I know of run fans to eliminate the moisture.

I am under the impression that they want to keep a tropical environment.

What type of construction is typically used in fish farming?? Greenhouse type??

 

[Cheap5.0]

True, but all the barns I know of run fans to eliminate the moisture.

I am under the impression that they want to keep a tropical environment.

What type of construction is typically used in fish farming?? Greenhouse type??

Yeah, energy efficiency would be nice since we would be building this from the ground up and not retrofitting an old auto parts supplier like we did now lol.

His idea was metal siding on the inside, and then if it would work paper backed rolls of the thickest insulation we could fit in the walls. We have not figured out what to do with the ceilings. Probably metal as well, but what kind of insulation?

Fish farming of this type is usually done in green houses or similar. Most of the fish are only spawned in doors, but then put into100' diameter or smaller ponds for grow out.

We however are just the middle men. We pick up at the airport, bring them back here and put them into holding tanks. Then customers come in through out the week and empty the tanks. Rinse & repeat every week.

 

[Stuart in MN]

This is a photo inside a steel building at a wastewater treatment plant for a sugar beet processing facility. There are several large open filter tanks in the building, so it stays pretty humid in there. You can see the insulation on the roof is covered with plastic; I'm not sure of exactly what it's called but I've seen it used in pole barns, airport hangars, etc. so it's commonly available for these types of structures.

This place is about 22 years old and the insulation appears to be mostly still in good shape. There are some places where it's been torn, but as far as I can tell that's from birds that get into the building that are looking for nesting material.

edit: the inner walls in this place are covered with metal but there is fiberglass insulation between the inner and outer walls. I don't think it has any facing on it. However, I have seen the same kind of plastic covered insulation that's on the ceiling used on walls in other metal buildings. I'd suggest talking to whoever is going to build the building about what to use, chances are they can suggest the proper material.

 

[CARS]

Blankets like this have been used:

http://steelbuildinginsulation.com/polebuilding.html

Not sure if it is a sealed bag or not though. Never touched one before.

I would assume that with a 100% seal of a vapor barrier almost anything could be used. How about that poly board stuff in all the gas station bathrooms?? I've seen dairy operations lined with that for easy clean up.

 

[CARS]

Regardless, I think you are going to need a bunch of ventilation to keep condensation down. I don't think the fish would care if they lived in a rain forest or not since they are in the water

 

[kbs2244]

On a whole different track.
After you have done all your financial homework on what it will cost you to move.
(Include payback time on your investment.)
Go before the city people and ask if they want to lose what ever you are now paying.

I live in Illinois and various company’s have been playing hardball over taxes.
Sears, The Chicago Board of Trade, etc.
“If you don’t exempt us, we are out of here.”

You might want to try something like that.
It will save you the cost of completely rebuilding.

 

[Cheap5.0]

This is a photo inside a steel building at a wastewater treatment plant for a sugar beet processing facility. There are several large open filter tanks in the building, so it stays pretty humid in there. You can see the insulation on the roof is covered with plastic; I'm not sure of exactly what it's called but I've seen it used in pole barns, airport hangars, etc. so it's commonly available for these types of structures.

This place is about 22 years old and the insulation appears to be mostly still in good shape. There are some places where it's been torn, but as far as I can tell that's from birds that get into the building that are looking for nesting material.

edit: the inner walls in this place are covered with metal but there is fiberglass insulation between the inner and outer walls. I don't think it has any facing on it. However, I have seen the same kind of plastic covered insulation that's on the ceiling used on walls in other metal buildings. I'd suggest talking to whoever is going to build the building about what to use, chances are they can suggest the proper material.

Great photo and details, thank you! We have not found any builder yet that really knows what to expect as far as humidity and how to deal with it.

Blankets like this have been used:

http://steelbuildinginsulation.com/polebuilding.html

Not sure if it is a sealed bag or not though. Never touched one before.

I would assume that with a 100% seal of a vapor barrier almost anything could be used. How about that poly board stuff in all the gas station bathrooms?? I've seen dairy operations lined with that for easy clean up.

I was thinking of a tyvek style wrap on the inside...that should work right?

Then, like you i thought of that thing white platic wall covering you see....that might be a great option. Its cheap, cleans up well and is water proof.

Regardless, I think you are going to need a bunch of ventilation to keep condensation down. I don't think the fish would care if they lived in a rain forest or not since they are in the water

Ventilation (the way im thinking of it) is most likely a no go. While it would be venting the humid air out, it would also be venting out the expensive heated air right?

 

[Cheap5.0]

On a whole different track.
After you have done all your financial homework on what it will cost you to move.
(Include payback time on your investment.)
Go before the city people and ask if they want to lose what ever you are now paying.

I live in Illinois and various company’s have been playing hardball over taxes.
Sears, The Chicago Board of Trade, etc.
“If you don’t exempt us, we are out of here.”

You might want to try something like that.
It will save you the cost of completely rebuilding.

That was our first, and second move. The city is completely unwilling to budge. Much larger business have made requests of a similar nature, and they have been "shown the door".

The city went into receivership about a year ago, and its only gotten worse. No police dept anymore, and they are closing the fire next month. Its one of the worst violent crime cities in MI, and its only getting worse.

Its just a good thing all around to get out of there while we can

 

[theoldwizard1]

Insulation, vapor barrier, "green" drywall, walls and ceiling.

The vapor barrier is the key. It has to be perfect ! No gaps, no holes, all seams sealed.

The "green" drywall is designed for damp (bathroom) areas. You can buy mold resistant paint or add a special chemical to regular latex. Primer and 2 top coats, semi gloss or gloss. If done correctly, you can wash the walls and ceiling with a hose.

You might check into a 1/2-1" layer of spray foam on the inside of the sheathing just to seal it so that no external moisture can get into the fiberglass insulation and cause mold.