Pole building heat

[dstaley]

Hey guys, I'm looking for loopholes. Before I consider swallowing a thousands-of-dollars bill for insulation, here's the thought.

I have a 36x54 pole building with an existing concrete floor (I assume uninsulated), uninsulated walls, and a roof with anti-condensation insulation only.

I'm in this garage only the occasional nights and maybe part of a day on the weekends usually. Spending $3,000-$10,000 on insulation seems nuts if I can avoid it.

I have a forced air, 150,000 BTU propane hanging style unit heater that I acquired from a friend. I called the building permit office in town and learned that I do need a permit to "install" a heater, but not to use a portable heater or a windown air conditioner. The fumes from my 210,000 BTU salamander/torpedo heater are awful, but it does provide plenty of heat to make the space usable.

This begs the question- I could set up this heater with a vent through a window, install a cord to plug the fan & controls in to the wall, and use a large portable propane tank I suppose. Is there any problem with this approach (other than it would consume more fuel than an insulated structure would)? I guess this is a question about the definition of "install" and what's a portable vs. a non-portable heater.

 

[JakeKohl]

well...a permit really isn't that expensive ($30?) and depending on your local rules and regs, isn't necessarily a big scary thing. I was surprised how easy my inspections went on my garage and I did my own wiring, some of the plumbing, all of the HVAC (heat pumps), etc...I never had to demonstrate a licensed trade. I missed a couple of minor things (sealing wiring penetrations in the 2nd story top plate - though I got all the bottom plate penetrations...not capping a P-trap where my HVAC drains (so the p-trap doesn't dry out)....So, my point is, you might not want to start making compromises and cutting corners over getting a permit.

That said, I would estimate that 80% of this type of installation by owner is done without a permit...

 

[pfarber]

I would not let a CEO in my garage... he can see other things that may make life difficult.

Hang it, follow the instructions and error on the side of safety. Deal with it if/when CEO discovers it.

Get on the net as look for others that have done something similar and learn from their install. When I put in my wood stove for heat I took about a week to learn about barrel stoves, stove pipes, roof penetrations, clearances etc etc etc

 

[Tim The Tool Man]

If it were my home, my building, ect.. I would do a proper install without a permit (unless I lived in a high traffic area with nosy neighbors). I would absolutely NOT install the unit exhausting out a window as you describe! Regardless of the permit issue, I would contact my insurance company about what my heat options are. Many will not cover damage caused by kero heaters or portable heating units. I know they wouldn't give the green light on a 150,000 BTU gas unit exhausting out a window...

 

[DPelletier]

At a minimum, install the Unit heater with a proper vent and put the propane tank outside. I'm not a fan of the "through the window idea" at all and the vent should go straight up unless the unit is designed for horizontal termination. I would hard wire it in too; it is cheap and easy.

....speaking of cheap and easy, that's quite the range of pricing you have for insulation. I don't know the market where you live, but insulation is relatively cheap and easy to do yourself....and it's the only way to have your building perform properly. You'd spend the insulation money in addtional propane in a relatively short amount of time IMO.

Insulation and vapor barrier, then heat.

2 cents,
Dave

 

[Highbeam]

Hanging heaters are great for a quick blast of heat before you shut it off and go back inside an hour later. Insulation only has significant value if you intend to keep it warm. Given your intended uses, when you go out there it will be cold so I see little value in insulation and most value in a macho high btu blast of heat.

I am not afraid of permits. Unless you have something else that you want to hide then a mechanical permit is super easy and will protect you from burning down the shop, wasting a tank of propane, or worst case killing yourself from fire or CO poisoning.

 

[ishiboo]

Definitely install proper venting. An inexpensive way would be to find a newer LP furnace on craigslist with power vent - that way your install would be as simple as two PVC pipes through the wall carrying barely warm air, mostly full of moisture

Do you use kero in your portable heater, or diesel fuel? I have a hard time working with mine on diesel, but kerosene seems to burn very cleanly. I worked out of my 30x40 for an entire winter with just a 175k kerosene torpedo and no insulation. I actually had the insulation sitting there waiting to go up, but I felt I would be getting out of the building and I did end up doing so.

 

[dstaley]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I had two insulation contractors come out to quote insulating the building. One hasn't sent the quote yet, the other quoted $14,000, and it wouldn't be up to code- code calls out R19 in the walls, R35 on the ceiling. This is why getting a permit (which would be accompanied by an inspection when the insulation + heater install work was done) is an ugly option- insulating to the extent called out by current code would be over $20,000 using spray foam, roughly $8,000 using fiberglass bats/blankets etc. Well worth it for a constantly heated + air conditioned space, rediculous for a 1-2 time/week casual use.

The research continues...

 

[Go Skins]

The amount of fuel your gonna use is gonna be huge. Them old hanging heaters are gas guzzlers. If you don't want to spend the cash on insulation spend some on Radiant tube heaters. They will heat the concrete and objects, not the air. I think this will save you some major fuel.