Pole shed vs stick built? Need some help!

[VtecGSR95]

HI all, newbie here......not new to the construction scene. Do a lot of home projects, but never built a house or large structure before!!

I have been pricing 40x60x16 pole sheds, and have it narrowed down to a good builder for a good price. The structure itself with (9) 4x3 insulated sliding windows, 2 walk in doors, and a 16x10 OHD installed, with 5" concrete is about $44,000.

Last night my cousin called me.....said I should just stick build it, this way I can do it myself, it'll be stronger, easier to insulate, etc. So I go on Menards side and start calculating building this with 2x6 walls, 16 o.c., with the same window and door configuration. I come up with about $11,500 for materials, including trusses 2' o.c., 7/16" osb sheeting on walls and roof, 15lb felt on roof, and sheet metal on the entire building. I am certain the concrete slab will be more $$ due to the footers and additional excavation.

Is there something I am missing here? I was always told stick built was so much more $$ than pole barn? When I factor in the additional materials and such to frame out the inside for insulation and finishing the walls with metal, I just keep adding more money to the pole barn project, and wondering if stick built is a better option?

Would just like to hear from those more knowledgeable in this area, as I am not an expert by any means!!!

Appreciate any feedback.

Frank

 

[iamrfixit]

The foundation and the labor to stick build are both probably more than you anticipate. The pole building price is likely including all the construction labor and having the floor poured. At Menards you're just pricing materials for the stick build.

You can have the pole building framed using the bookshelf method, that's 24" centers horizontally, then the interior is pretty much just like finishing a regular shed. You can use standard 23.5" insulation installed horizontal. Menards has a pole barn calculator that can also figure materials alone and can figure using the bookshelf method to frame the girts.

With a pole building the poles act as the foundation, the slab is just a simple floating slab to create a smooth surface. When you stick build, the concrete acts as the foundation so you need some kind of footing and a much more substantial slab. On a large building the foundation can add up fast.

It's a whole different deal when you start stick framing 16' tall walls, they are extremely heavy to construct and stand up. If you're comparing apples to apples on specs for these buildings, you need to realize there are substantial differences in labor.

 

[VtecGSR95]

The foundation and the labor to stick build are both probably more than you anticipate. The pole building price is likely including all the construction labor and having the floor poured. At Menards you're just pricing materials for the stick build.

You can have the pole building framed using the bookshelf method, that's 24" centers horizontally, then the interior is pretty much just like finishing a regular shed. You can use standard 23.5" insulation installed horizontal. Menards has a pole barn calculator that can also figure materials alone and can figure using the bookshelf method to frame the girts.

With a pole building the poles act as the foundation, the slab is just a simple floating slab to create a smooth surface. When you stick build, the concrete acts as the foundation so you need some kind of footing and a much more substantial slab. On a large building the foundation can add up fast.

It's a whole different deal when you start stick framing 16' tall walls, they are extremely heavy to construct and stand up. If you're comparing apples to apples on specs for these buildings, you need to realize there are substantial differences in labor.

Mr fix it, I am planning to stick build myself if I go that route. Plan to build the walls in 20' sections and add an additional top plate to tie them together, as well as bolting the wall sections together.

With the pole barn, I did consider the bookshelf method.......but then also figured I could just build 2x4 walls in between the poles, and nail them flush with the posts, and then have the same finished product...more or less.

Most of the pole barn material kits I prices were $17-$19K for 40x60x16.

 

[iamrfixit]

I've built about a dozen garages of various sizes, as well as a couple houses. Those wall sections will be tough. When you get over 8' tall everything gets twice as hard. You'll also have 3-4 times more trusses than what the pole building has. Getting them on top of 16' walls is no small job. I'm not saying it can't be done, but don't go underestimating the amount of work you're getting into.

There is substantially more labor in a stick build of that size than there would be with a pole building. Pole buildings are just better suited for large, tall structures, that's why so many are built. The stick build with a proper foundation will be a better building but it will require a lot more labor.

 

[hoppsxc140]

Lots of other variables to consider than just framing materials. Is the builders quote a turnkey package? (Permits,taxes,cleanup,site plan, etc). As previously stated the excavation can also be an area driving up the price. Cut or fill amounts, gravel under the slab, off haul/disposal fees. I had a 36x60x12 horizontal girts with 2 man doors, 18x8 and 2-10x12 framed openings built for $25k. Lots of options the builder offered that would have drove up the price, Ex. sliding windows were $350 each. Then what’s your time and commitment worth? I’m not scared of many tasks, but I usually estimate it will take me substantially longer, planning on a few hours a night after work and weekends, and anticipating no help as most are usually busy/unavailable. And profit, if your builder is doing it all maybe he’s got 10% on the whole package. If excavation, concrete, framing and doors are separate then all of the contractors have some markup, as well as his.

 

[matt_i]

It would be helpful to know your mystery location (please edit and place in profile).

Footers in International Falls and Lower Alabama are very different animals.

Also helpful would be the need for a 16' tall wall (Semi trucks?) and if you are planing to heat/cool it.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

If you are able to do the stick build yourself, you can easily do the pole construction. It is dead simple.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Many pole buildings have no insulation, no interior walls, a dirt or gravel floor and minimal trusses.
The main difference in cost is the foundation. Also some material and labor for the framing. This equals the cost of an unfinished pole barn.
Once you start insulating and finishing the interior (which requires more labor, framing) that cost savings is a smaller percentage of the whole building.

 

[Marctrees]

vtec - Your price of 44k for the specs you gave is a steal.

I would bet there are corners cut at that price.

I would look into the details much deeper.



Marc

 

[rburke65]

I had a 32x56x13 studded shop built and it was on a ‘Pole barn ’ foundation. Sort of a hybrid build

 

[Notgrownup]

Labor is the killer on a stick built...Been there , built my own. Great results but only 24x24.

 

[Marctrees]

vtec - A 2400 ft building REALLY should have at least one more overhead door, maybe 10 x 10 for more "everyday" use than the tall one.

Also, w a 16' wall generally you will only be able to have a approx 14' h door.

Marc

 

[VtecGSR95]

Hey guys, here's some updated info......and I really appreciate all of the feedback!

The ground is just a level lot, very little excavation needed......but certainly some fill regardless.

I am in Central Illinois, and I was told by a friend who does concrete that I would need 6" wide footings 3' deep, which would add about $5k to the concrete bill if he did it. Another friend who does concrete quoted me $14,500+fill for the entire slab with footings (5" thick).

Regarding the building.....I am planning to use it for a shop/place to keep toys, process deer, all kinds of stuff! I do plan to insulate it, and heat it....possibly someday I may add a/c to take the edge off during the hot summer days.

In reference to ceiling height, I am about 6'3", and plan to install a extra tall 2 post lift, which would require 14' minimum, but I also plan to mezzanine a portion of the end. I planned to come out 10-12', and go the 40' width of the building with the mezzanine, which will give me a lot of storage. I plan to build work benches below the mezzanine, and put my toolbox and everything else under it. I figure if I start at 7.5', my mezz floor will be about 1' thick, that'll leave a little over 7' in the mezzanine, so I'll be able to stand up while up there.

Other bits, I plan to put in a bathroom, have a floor drain for washing things (friend services car washes, and has a commercial CAT pump and motor waiting for me!).

Also, this property is outside town, and there is no permits needed.....I can pretty much do whatever I want, when I want (within reason of course). The property already has a septic system, which I plan to tap into, and rural water is at the road, as well as electricity. There was a house there, and we just tore it down, as it was in disrepair.

As far as my pole barn quotes:
-$34,000 for the 40x60x16 with 2 walk in doors, 9 4x3 sliding windows, and house wrap on the outside.
-$9400 for 5" concrete in this building
-$4900 for 5" open cell spray foam insulation (said R-19)
-$3200 for R-19 batt insulation
-$12,000 to frame the inside and install metal on walls and ceiling
-$2100 to blow in R030 fiberglass in attic
-$3500 for 16x10 OHD with opener

-The local OHD company quoted me $2800 installed for (1) 16x10 commercial CHI steel insulated door with opener and highlift track, so I planned to use them for he door.

-I calculated if I fur out the inside with 2x4 walls, flush with the posts on the inside, I can get the materials and finish the inside myself for about $5000. This is for lumber, sheet metal, and nails/screws.

So if I do the inside myself, the pole barn is gonna be roughly $56,000 (with spray foam insulation) and that doesn't included the plumbing or electrical, which I can do myself. If I let them finish the inside for me, now we're talking $63,000 total, again assuming I stick with spray foam insulation.

When I calculate stick building (per my cousin's recommendation), 16" oc 2x6 walls, 2' oc trusses with 2' overhang all sides, using 6" R-19 fiberglass rolls in the walls and blowing in R-38 fiberglass myself in the attic, same windows and doors, plus subbing out the OHD to the local company, I come up with about $16000, plus the $14,500 for concrete. I would have to rent a crane or something to raise the trusses, but have neighbors offering to loan me some equipment to raise the walls, and man lifts for the roof and walls.


So after seeing all the info i am presenting, knowing my location, and the I am on a flat, very level lot, with no building restrictions, what are your thoughts now? I've seen a lot of stories where the "if you plan to insulate and finish it, stick build might be better" scenarios......and just wonder if this is one of them? I do realize my cousin is a contractor....and I appreciate his advice......but all contractors don't do things the same. Doesn't mean he is right or wrong......but there are always different ways to accomplish the same goal.


Sorry for the long post! Feel free to share feedback!

 

[James-W]

Mr fix it, I am planning to stick build myself if I go that route. Plan to build the walls in 20' sections and add an additional top plate to tie them together, as well as bolting the wall sections together.

With the pole barn, I did consider the bookshelf method.......but then also figured I could just build 2x4 walls in between the poles, and nail them flush with the posts, and then have the same finished product...more or less.

Most of the pole barn material kits I prices were $17-$19K for 40x60x16.

You could certainly do that, but then you would be constructing a building inside of a building. Why would you want to construct a building inside of a building? Why not just construct ONE building?

Personally, I am not a big fan of a pole building for a workshop. I feel that a pole building certainly has its place, but not for a workshop. If I owned a farm and needed a place to park some of my machinery, a pole barn would be ideal. If I wanted a workshop that is heated and cooled, then I would construct a stick built building.

I realize some people have a pole building for a workshop and they love it. Be that as it may, if they are happy with it, that's what counts and what I think about it totally not relevant. My suggestion, for what it is worth, is do a stick build, insulate it, heat and cool it, then you can enjoy it for many years to come.

 

[VtecGSR95]

Here's a couple pics of the building I would like to build.

 

[iamrfixit]

You're not comparing apples to apples. Spray foam is awesome insulation but expensive. You have it on the pole building but not going with it on the stick built? Maybe get a few bids to have the shed stick built and you'll see a pretty dramatic increase in costs. For a large, tall structure a pole building is hard to beat cost wise. Helped a friend build and finish his 50x100 pole building. Framed using bookshelf method, R-19 horizontal then installed liner panel on the inside walls and ceiling, about 18" of cellulose above the ceiling. It has an office and full bathroom, floor drains as well as a gas boiler with radiant heat in the 6" thick, full concrete floor. If you think you can do the stick build you can do the pole build too. It's a fantastic shop on those cold winter days, the radiant in the floor can't be topped.

If you're going to compare, then you need to compare to the same thing. Get the specs even up and then compare. You're not gonna throw this up in a couple weekends, it's gonna consume your entire summer and probably into winter, but you've got bids for someone else building the pole shed from start to finish. Surely your time is worth something? Don't plan on people that say sure, I'll help. When the time comes most of them are nowhere to be found. I've seen that time and time again.

If you hire it done you still better make sure things are getting done right. I think it was GJ where another poster had this shed built, just completed and this happened. The builder had skimped, not nearly enough nails in the framing and only had screws in half of the girts. The brand new building completely collapsed after only a moderate wind.

 

[VtecGSR95]

You're not comparing apples to apples. Spray foam is awesome insulation but expensive. You have it on the pole building but not going with it on the stick built?.

Mr Fixit.......I put both options in there, take a look. $3200 for regular fiberglass, $5000 for spray foam. If I take out the spray foam on my pole barn quote, it only drops $1800......and would only increase my stick built about $3500.

I understand your thought process....many people do think they will have friends and family helping with their project during the nice summer days, but the reality is most likely it'll be you and a radio! I also have considered that my time is worth something.....but I am the type that always wants to do those things I am capable of doing. I can't stand to pay someone to do something I can do just as good.....or better. I think that is whats bothering me the most. Anytime I've hired out work in the past, whether something small like painting inside my house, or laying tile, etc., my experience has been that no one care as much about a quality finish as YOU do. And for this reason, I have struggled to pay folks who for some reason, always seem to take short cuts or overlook small details. I am a stickler for quality, and attention to detail, and its tough to find that nowadays.

 

[VtecGSR95]

vtec - A 2400 ft building REALLY should have at least one more overhead door, maybe 10 x 10 for more "everyday" use than the tall one.

Also, w a 16' wall generally you will only be able to have a approx 14' h door.

Marc

Marc, I considered another door, but if the end is 40' wide, I think a 16' wide door is plenty for anything I will pull in! Not sure about the height comment......my door is only 10' tall on a 16' wall? Maybe you got the 16x10 mixed around?

Thanks!

 

[VtecGSR95]

If you are able to do the stick build yourself, you can easily do the pole construction. It is dead simple.

You're prob right Captain.....but I think its one of those "Ive never done that" fears! Ive built sheds, small garages, but no pole barns. With a slab, you rely on the concrete guy to make sure the slab is square. With the pole barn.....its on me! Ive watched videos, and I know it cant be too difficult, but I guess I am worried I will mess it up.

 

[Marctrees]

Yes, I thought you had a tall door to utilize the tall building height for big RV or truck.

But still, may be convenient to still have a smaller door somewhere for lawn tractor, etc.

Marc

 

[red61cj5]

How do you plan to stand 20' sections of 16' high 2x6 wall? If you go stick frame, that is. For what its worth, if you can stick frame, you can pole build. I've done both, neither is really more difficult, just different. Also, if you pole build, get Perma-columns. Eliminates poles rotting in the ground.

 

[krapie]

A couple of thoughts. Your height is being determined by your lift and need for storage. Consider making sidewalls 12’ high, using scisor trusses to get your height above the lift. Then add 12’ on to the end of the building to get your storage space. Price it out and i believe you will save on material and labor costs compared to 16’ walls. It will also eliminate the need for steps and some way to get heavy/bulky items up to the mezanine. My original plan was 48 x 160 x 16’ high, ended up with 48 x 200 x 14’ and still saved a few dollaes with the lower height. So much nicer with everything on one level.

Also, look into taxes for your proposed building methodology. My pole building is considered an agricultural accessory building. Traditional stick building was considered garage or shop with much higher property taxes. Not the only reason to consider building type, but something to consider.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Is there something I am missing here?

Labor and heavy equipment ! Watch this series done by RR Building on YouTube. Almost exactly the same size building. No couple of amateurs would ever be able to get this done !