pole, steel, or stick construction for garage?

[vetron]

Please help garage gurus! spent a lot of time looking thru old posts but the dilemma is simple. which type of construction to go with?

I've been reading that pole construction saves $. Stick is the most pricey, while steel is getting up there in price.

located in Idaho on my residential lot with home and 1/3 acre. Home was built in the 90s so would prefer something not ghetto that would compliment the property, not take away from it. want the biggest shop I can fit but frankly I think it will be 2 1/2 car garage. would prefer upstairs storage.

lot is big enough to easily drive an RV in by the side of the house but I think this garage would benefit from a side door vs. the front. the home garage looks like a 2 car from the front of the house but has a 3rd bay with garage door out to the back of the house.

it gets cold in Idaho and would prefer something insulated. wondering if a wood stove would be nice in there. dont' plan to have water or bathroom but do plan to weld. definitely want concrete floors.

the city does allow shops. not sure as of today if they would allow steel or if it must look like the house in terms of shingles and siding.

would like to keep this at a budget of 30k if that's reasonable but I really have little idea. our realtor was a builder (actually I think she worked for her parents who were the builders) and she thought the price would push 40k for a stick built garage. she knew nothing about pole or steel.

Questions:
1. what type of construction is most economical? I don't plan to build this myself but can finish it (think insulate, put up interior walls, build my own benches, paint inside, etc).
2. does steel and pole lend itself well to insulation and putting up interior walls?
3. anyone know of any trustworthy builders in boise Idaho?
4. any other advice?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for your advice and patience. I've never had a shop before and this is like a man cave dream come true!

 

[bwane]

Pole barns are cheapest but I'm in rocky soil and it was a ***** making holes for the poles. The next one is is going to be on a slab

 

[fwillison]

The cost savings with pole construction over stick built is entirely in the foundation, at least in my area. Stick built requires footings which run $3.50 per linear foot plus materials. Total footing cost for my 44x60 shop with 8x60 porch (also had footings) was $3500.
Cost to frame in posts/girts/purlins vs. 2x6 walls/7/16 OSB sheathing not much different is probably a bit cheaper, but not much.
I think that siding with metal is more expensive than siding even with nice Hardi-plank fiber cement siding. Hardi-plank $5000 plus $2200 for paint. I asked for a metal estimate, but after hearing the price quote for Hardi plank the metal guy never got back to me.
Roof in Metal also more expensive than shingles. Metal quote was $8500, 30 yr architectural shingles $5600.
I am doing stick built, Hardi-Plank siding, paint, and shingle roof.

Fred
Tulsa

BTW
Total materials cost for framing, sheathing and siding with 12 ft walls using Hardi plank was $19000. Labor cost for this will run $13000.
I think I'm going to start a cost thread.

 

[kbs2244]

Even in Idaho you should be able to go with a "floating slab" foundation.
(Be sure you tell the concrete guys where any doors will be.)
Then a stick built is just basic carpentry.
And there are a lot of carpenters looking for work.

I would go with stick built, contracted to an "enclosed" condition.
No electric, no plumbing, but all siding, windows, etc. installed and signed off by any inspectors.
You now have an enclosed, weather proof, space for youe spear time pleasure.
Have fun.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Questions:
1. what type of construction is most economical? I don't plan to build this myself but can finish it (think insulate, put up interior walls, build my own benches, paint inside, etc).

2. does steel and pole lend itself well to insulation and putting up interior walls?

3. anyone know of any trustworthy builders in boise Idaho?

4. any other advice?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE for your advice and patience. I've never had a shop before and this is like a man cave dream come true!

1. The pole building is going to be the most economical initially. Once you start finishing the inside, you'll find the cost starts coming on par with the stick built. You might also find the stick build may be easier to finish on the inside.

2. Somewhat answered in #1. If you have steel construction, you'll have to attach the wood interior to the steel or frame the wall separate from the steel frame work. The pole spacing can also cause some issues as they may be larger than 8 feet depending on how you finish the interior.

3. Sorry no advice there.

4.Insulation, put in as much as you can, it's an investment and will continue to pay for itself over the life of the building. Wood stove for heat. I have it in mine and love it. Check with your insurance company and local codes before you decide to make it your heat source.


Take a stroll through the gallery section and see what/how other members have finished their shops and garages. You can gain some valuable information and great ideas.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

1/3 acre residential lot, 2 to 3 car garage lot, a regular stick built, matching the house is most likely the best choice.

Charles

 

[Sureshot]

I would go look at some. I have a pole building finished metal inside and out. I couldn't compete with the price they gave for the inside. The big builders get a much better price on the material.
Lots of people frame them between the poles which IMHO is a total waste. The whole building has strapping running every two feet horizontally behind the tin and the ribs are 3/4" so you build your shelves etc with that design in mind.
The other thing I like is that it is maintenance free. No painting and relatively fire proof unless it starts inside the wall.
If you want it to match the house stick will be the way to go and with that small of a lot may be the best thing plus your town codes may have something to say.
Good luck either way.

 

[38Chevy454]

I think your comment wanting to match and compliment the house indicates a stick built is going to be your best choice. For the size you are considering, there won't be much difference. If you plan to do any finish work inside yourself, stick built is way easier and has std spacing for the studs, etc.

Insulate all you can, consider 2x6 wall studs. Higher ceilings is good, but you want asecond story storage, so consider that with lot size being smaller. You should match your house roof pitch, so that may limit your options for storage space. Build big as you can, it will fill up and you will wish for more. Ask anyone here about how that always seems the case.

 

[Orange65]

1/3 acre residential lot, 2 to 3 car garage lot, a regular stick built, matching the house is most likely the best choice.

Charles

X2- It will look the best, keep the neighbors happier, and get the most return when or if you sell.

 

[IHI]

The cost savings with pole construction over stick built is entirely in the foundation, at least in my area. Stick built requires footings which run $3.50 per linear foot plus materials. Total footing cost for my 44x60 shop with 8x60 porch (also had footings) was $3500.
Cost to frame in posts/girts/purlins vs. 2x6 walls/7/16 OSB sheathing not much different is probably a bit cheaper, but not much.

I think that siding with metal is more expensive than siding even with nice Hardi-plank fiber cement siding. Hardi-plank $5000 plus $2200 for paint. I asked for a metal estimate, but after hearing the price quote for Hardi plank the metal guy never got back to me.
probably because he heard the rest of your conversation and realized he was dealing with the typical short sighted customer so wasn't going to waste his time and breathb
Roof in Metal also more expensive than shingles. Metal quote was $8500, 30 yr architectural shingles $5600.
guess what, those 30yr shingles wont go 30yrs. So what happens next, you buy another roof in 15-20 yrs at a higher price than what you bought at initially along with then increased labor prices/landfill fees, etc...
I am doing stick built, Hardi-Plank siding, paint, and shingle roof.

Fred
Tulsa

BTW
Total materials cost for framing, sheathing and siding with 12 ft walls using Hardi plank was $19000. Labor cost for this will run $13000.
I think I'm going to start a cost thread.

Not directly trying to bust your chops, but you just gave me the silver platter with the red ribbon on it as far as my example of 98% of customers/homeowners care about price ONLY and fail to see spending more upfront on quality and value costs less in the long run....all that matters is THE NOW, what can I save NOW...I'll deal with the consequences later, just gotta have rock bottom pricing NOW NOW NOW even though it will cost me 2x's my initial savings LATER...now, now now is all that matters.


Back to OP, we've done all sorts of builds for customers. At the end of the day if you take two shops that will be completed to the same spec, everything washes out cost wise, stick built with footings will cost the same as a pole barn (considering finished/insulated interiors)

Cold storage only above 1000sqft, pole barn cheaper hands down, especially with all metal roof/siding.

If doing a pole barn frame that will have shingled roof, typical residential geared siding, the pole barn will ultimately cost more due to more material and labor.

Insulation wise, pole barns are better than stick built for the simple fact that studs are thermal breaks...think spring/fall when frost hits roofs/walls and you can see every stud and every rafter/trusses..that is heat loss. Less wood in a insulated wall the better R factor it will have.

Don't know much about steel buildings as that was not our niche, just make sure you look at all costs, all products and think big picture so your not having to redo things later...unless your into that.

 

[fwillison]

Not directly trying to bust your chops, but you just gave me the silver platter with the red ribbon on it as far as my example of 98% of customers/homeowners care about price ONLY and fail to see spending more upfront on quality and value costs less in the long run....all that matters is THE NOW, what can I save NOW...I'll deal with the consequences later, just gotta have rock bottom pricing NOW NOW NOW even though it will cost me 2x's my initial savings LATER...now, now now is all that matters.


Back to OP, we've done all sorts of builds for customers. At the end of the day if you take two shops that will be completed to the same spec, everything washes out cost wise, stick built with footings will cost the same as a pole barn (considering finished/insulated interiors)

Cold storage only above 1000sqft, pole barn cheaper hands down, especially with all metal roof/siding.

If doing a pole barn frame that will have shingled roof, typical residential geared siding, the pole barn will ultimately cost more due to more material and labor.

Insulation wise, pole barns are better than stick built for the simple fact that studs are thermal breaks...think spring/fall when frost hits roofs/walls and you can see every stud and every rafter/trusses..that is heat loss. Less wood in a insulated wall the better R factor it will have.

Don't know much about steel buildings as that was not our niche, just make sure you look at all costs, all products and think big picture so your not having to redo things later...unless your into that.

I am puzzled by this post. I most certainly am not going with the cheapest price without regard to quality. In fact my initial budget for the 44x60 pole barn was naively set at $50K. I am currently at $90K and counting due to accepting higher quality and function over price. I view the Hardie-plank and shingle construction superior to all metal in form if not function and it is my preference that I decided to pay for. The building will look like my home and not like an industrial metal building. The extra cost for Hardie-Plank was worth it to me. The fact that shingles are cheaper surprised me, and I do suspect a metal roof will last longer. But a shingle roof lasts pretty long, there are hundreds of shingle roofers to replace it when needed, it's what's on my home, and while cheaper seems like a good compromise.
All I am doing is insisting on quantitative cost comparisons so an INFORMED decision on price vs. quality (ie. VALUE) can be made. Most of the contractors don't like this, they prefer to keep you in the dark, in my experience. This allows them to build in more profit. Nothing wrong with profit, but my job as a consumer is to be informed and not ignorant. I am willing to pay for true value because this shop means a lot to me. I want my contractors and laborers to make a healthy profit and I'm glad I have the ability to do business with good people. However, I am careful with my very hard-earned dollars and I don't appreciate being ripped off, and I have been ripped off many times over the years when I have become lazy and passive.
As always YMMV.

Fred
Tulsa

 

[IHI]

I am puzzled by this post. I most certainly am not going with the cheapest price without regard to quality. In fact my initial budget for the 44x60 pole barn was naively set at $50K. I am currently at $90K and counting due to accepting higher quality and function over price. I view the Hardie-plank and shingle construction superior to all metal in form if not function and it is my preference that I decided to pay for. The building will look like my home and not like an industrial metal building. The extra cost for Hardie-Plank was worth it to me. The fact that shingles are cheaper surprised me, and I do suspect a metal roof will last longer. But a shingle roof lasts pretty long, there are hundreds of shingle roofers to replace it when needed, it's what's on my home, and while cheaper seems like a good compromise.
All I am doing is insisting on quantitative cost comparisons so an INFORMED decision on price vs. quality (ie. VALUE) can be made. Most of the contractors don't like this, they prefer to keep you in the dark, in my experience. This allows them to build in more profit. Nothing wrong with profit, but my job as a consumer is to be informed and not ignorant. I am willing to pay for true value because this shop means a lot to me. I want my contractors and laborers to make a healthy profit and I'm glad I have the ability to do business with good people. However, I am careful with my very hard-earned dollars and I don't appreciate being ripped off, and I have been ripped off many times over the years when I have become lazy and passive.
As always YMMV.

Fred
Tulsa

Let me say I used what you said as a blanket quote..the way "it read" sounds like every job I ever bid the last 2 decades...we want this, this and this...but only want to spend this...champagne dreams on a beer budget if you will.

What is so often lost in all the internet threads with everybody bragging on how little they spent, how much they saved is the fact that in almost every case they will be redoing said "upgrade" in a short amount of time, essentially doubling and more often tripling the initial cost of their saved money venture...but the short sighted vision of saving a bunch up front is what takes over their thought process, and about every client is unable to grasp the concept of often spending more upfront will save them more money in the big picture.

Like I said, wasn't meant to bust your ballz directly, but the way you stated it was a perfect case scenario of my biggest gripe running a construction business and dealing with client, and I just wanted to capitalize on the verbage and help explain how saving now often results in more costs later.

We all, me included, have different sceanario's in our builds so we take everything into consideration. Melding a pole barn into a residential surrounding costs more- period. Pole barns were meant to be cheap buy in's for storage, and due to design cost more to make a structure look residential both inside and out due to modified framing details required, insulating details, etc...

Hardi board is a good product, and like so many good products there is also draw back. Will the paint withstand Hardi's warranty, not by a long shot. My contractor forums have many pages filled with guys fighting with the company to stand behind the warranty for peeling paint issues, blothcey discolorations. The fact it will have to be maintained and repainted in a 10yr period (also dependant on environment/exposure) you now have more paint, and lots of labor to redo it later. Paint is lipstick, there is nothing designed to hold upto yrs and yrs of mother nature without a single sign of degradation..all which add to ultimate ownership costs.

Same with shingled roofs, which I also have on all my structures, but guy buy into the warranty thinking that's the life span they should get...simple fact of the matter, they don't last that long even in a perfect world with proper venting, they're not built to last..like most things in today's world, produce cheap-sell big, more profit. So in 15 to hopefully 20yrs from now when it's time for a redo, labor rates will be god knows how much, material prices will be god knows how much, look at how much they're jumped in just the last 10yrs over doubled in price, so what's to say it wont double again with oil prices continually skyrocketing...all which needs to be factored into ROI of the project and the realization that yes, sacrifices need to be made sometimes, but chosing what your going to sacrifice is the trickey part.

There is no magic bullet, perfect parts/pieces..otherwise manufacturers would lose market share of repeat business.

Anyhow, sorry for the long winded response if you made it this far LOL. Like I said, wasn't meant to be a personal attack against you, I just read your wording and thought what a great way to try and help people understand cheap upfront isn't always the best idea because they will end up spending twice as much down the road redoing it, whereas if they'd a done it without penny pinching in the first place it'd be one less thing to worry about "later" which is a popular word when trying to explain why our bids were twice as much as the competitions...I'm all inclusive and total, competitors often leave items out intentionally so the buy in price looks low, only to later tack all those items back on later and ultimately end up as much or higher than I bid being honest.

 

[fwillison]

No problem, IHI. Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to have the ability to spend 90-100K on my shop. Most hard working guys have trouble justifying that kind of expense on a luxury, though certainly there are all stripes. So I don't think it's always cheapness that leads to the types of client interaction you've had as it is desperately trying to keep from going broke. Not only that, but from the perspective of the consumer, there is no doubt a story of an unscrupulous contractor cheating a gullible client to match each of the stories of a cheapskate flogging a contractor. A little mutual understanding and respect goes a long way.
Anyway, as regards costs, most of the threads I read indicated very cheap build costs vs. what I am ending up spending. Those threads did make me concerned that I was being fleeced, but I've gotten comparative bids and researched the costs and I think I am paying a fair price. If that is the case, however, I caution the reader that the cost of building your shop is likely to be significantly higher than you think if you read most of the posts on this forum. If you want accurate numbers, see my thread on specific costs.
Good luck to all and enjoy, we all are traveling on a one way ticket...

Fred
Tulsa

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I think your comment wanting to match and compliment the house indicates a stick built is going to be your best choice. Build big as you can, it will fill up and you will wish for more. Ask anyone here about how that always seems the case.

+1. I needed to match my house as closely as possible as the folks in this township are rather sticky about things. First of all pole buildings are verboten altogether, as are steel buildings. That left me with stick built, which was what I wanted anyway. When I told them my plan to finish it similar to my house, they couldn't give me the permit quick enough. Vast majority of towns simply want something to look nice. I wanted a 28X56, but settled on a 24X48 which for some reason was far cheaper. As it turned out the 24 foot width was perfect to still see somewhat of the woods behind my house. And I had a finite amount to spend and went with what I had. As was said, I already see what I missed with all that extra space I originally wanted. Take everything into consideration and build the biggest you can.

 

[IHI]

No problem, IHI. Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to have the ability to spend 90-100K on my shop. Most hard working guys have trouble justifying that kind of expense on a luxury, though certainly there are all stripes. So I don't think it's always cheapness that leads to the types of client interaction you've had as it is desperately trying to keep from going broke. Not only that, but from the perspective of the consumer, there is no doubt a story of an unscrupulous contractor cheating a gullible client to match each of the stories of a cheapskate flogging a contractor. A little mutual understanding and respect goes a long way.
Anyway, as regards costs, most of the threads I read indicated very cheap build costs vs. what I am ending up spending. Those threads did make me concerned that I was being fleeced, but I've gotten comparative bids and researched the costs and I think I am paying a fair price. If that is the case, however, I caution the reader that the cost of building your shop is likely to be significantly higher than you think if you read most of the posts on this forum. If you want accurate numbers, see my thread on specific costs.
Good luck to all and enjoy, we all are traveling on a one way ticket...

Fred
Tulsa

Biggest thing is cost of living by region. We did a thread once in the contractor forum, speced out a garage, just a typical no frills build and everybody weighed in at what they would charge to build that garage in THEIR area. Prices ranged, turn key, from $14/sqft-$60/sqft. This is the #1 reason reputable contractors don't get into the online game when assisting on DIY sites regarding "what would it cost"...hell, even doing the same 24x24 garage build here I never had two come out the same because of different materials, options, grade variables, etc...anything building wise it's impossible to get accurate prices online.

I liken it to my racing, I kept track of EVERY penny that went into my car...meanwhile my buddies all had that selective memory of big ticket items only and would say "mine only cost $4500 to build"...because all the running around chasing parts, shipping costs, gaskets, nuts, bolts, welding wire, etc.....didn't count LOL. Same goes with many guys boasting of how little they spent on their project, they remember big receipt numbers and not the nickel and dime things that cost at LEAST 30-40% of the actual big ticket items ran.

All you can do is get bids from reputable guys and make sure they are bidding apples to apples, don't tell one contractor you want to do the roofing/siding and then complain the other guy is higher priced because he bid it all inclusive..another game homeowners play. I saw the game from the other side, you tell me a homeowner got screwed story, I'll give you 2 contractor got screwed story...no offsense, but people **** to deal with LOL. I learned early on to listen to my gut, and in every case I did not...I got burned. The last year I was in business I got screwed out of $28K owed..and the funny part, it is not worth my time/effort to chase after it because even if I upkeep the leins, they still don't have to pay...big joke that screws us little guys.

 

[tskills10]

Without having read everybody elses post here. When planning my building I have been leaning towards a pole foundation with stick framing. It gets around the high cost of a concrete foundation. And it gives you the ease of interior finishing i.e. wiring, insulation drywall etc.

 

[c6matt]

I have the floor and footing done on my 30x48, the quotes to have the shell up, 2x6 walls, standard trusses, shingled, and sheeted are less (16k) than I spent on the slab (18k) The concrete (i needed a 6' wall to bruing it to grade) was half the expense of my stick build pole wasn't an option for my site tho.. and overall I think I will be happier with the stick build (esp when it comes time to wire/insulate/drywall)

 

[sands35]

Without having read everybody elses post here. When planning my building I have been leaning towards a pole foundation with stick framing. It gets around the high cost of a concrete foundation. And it gives you the ease of interior finishing i.e. wiring, insulation drywall etc.

For what it's worth, I quoted that type of construction and it came out to within 5% of a footer foundation and stick. Given the choice, I'd rather put concrete in the ground than wood (even pressure treated) for longevity.

 

[vetron]

i'm humbled by all of the responses. this has been a great forum to learn from, and I most enjoy seeing everyone's garages. would especially like to hear more from IHI on the right questions to ask a builder.

 

[IHI]

i'm humbled by all of the responses. this has been a great forum to learn from, and I most enjoy seeing everyone's garages. would especially like to hear more from IHI on the right questions to ask a builder.

At doc office now..ill post some things when I get back home so my secretary fingers can peck fast and free lol.

 

[IHI]

THE #1 thing: Ask your friends and family of contractors they've dealt with and their experience with said contractor.
99% of our work was word of mouth, I did the advertising thing when I first started my business, and pulled all ads simply because all it generated was tire kickers trying to find the lowest price possible- I don't do business at lowest price possible, and with referrals it meant people were serious about the project so I wasn't completely wasting my time bidding it.

#2: Make sure contractor is licsenced/bonded/insured to work within your jurisdiction. The contractor "should" have copies available in his briefcase/clipboard as it helps put a future clients mind at ease that hey, this guy is legit and cares...also a person willing to jump through the hoops and costs to be legit shows they are taking business seriously. The GC is also responsible to have on hand all his sub contractors licsences/insurance, so if your having a multi facetted job performed-electrical, plumbing, HVAC..it's your right to get copies of polices to insure your not on the hook if somebody is hurt/injured/killed on your property when related to the work being performed.

#3: Ask for addresses for work that is similar to what you want performed. All our clients insisted that if anybody wanted to look over work for a possible future job for us, they were willing to let them in/look at/around it. Contractor may not be able to produce these names on the spot, give him time to contact former clients to get an okay first, and then try to coordinate times/dates with you, former client, and himself. This way former clients can give first hand experiences in how contractor works...if he's a there from day one until completion guy, or a show up day 1 and not see him for a few weeks kinda guy. It also allows you to see first hand longevity of the project since shoddy practices will highlight with short durations of quality.

#4: PLEASE, PLEASE before you call for actual on site bids, get your ducks in a row and know what YOU want referring to sizes, layout, materials, etc... I cannot tell you how many times I'd should up to bid bath/kitchen reno's, garage builds, additions, decks, fences, etc...and people called me blind. I'd ask questions and they'd respond, "well your the contractor, just do what everybody else is doing," or "just do it like you'd do your own," or "we don't want junk but we cant afford top shelf either". Luckily through experience I had cheat sheets I designed to help cover the many scopes of each type of job and I would sit down at the table with future customer and go down the list explaining all the options, my experience with certain ways/things, pro's/con's of certain aspects, etc...but the short list of customers that knew what they wanted before I showed up really made my job easier, and also made sure when bidding multiple companies we ALL BID apples to apples, not "this is what I want" to guy A and then "well, this is what I'd like" to guy B

#5 PLEASE understand this is our business, we do this to make money..weird concept huh, but imagin you going to work and not getting paid. WE as legit businesses have a certain overhead we must meet and exceed to stay open, so yes..we must make a profit to stay in operation. When I had 4 full time employee's my overhead for TOTAL business operation was $650/day- (i'm not going to bore you with all the things taken into account, but it takes a lot to operate legally/legit. Depending on whom you call bid will vary. Large companies with a lot of employee's will obviously have a lot higher operating costs than a 2-4 man crew obviously, and the bids will reflect it, so be prepared if you cold call a big builder to bid a garage, his bid will more than likely be 3-6x's the price of the smaller guy with the smaller crew..because it has to be. You may run into flat out price gouging, it happens, and that is the reason behind getting multiple bids. If 2 guys are at say $20K and one is at $40K and everything listed material wise is equal..then obviously there is a problem.

#6 When you decide on a contractor, ask about lead time. We were typically 4-6 weeks out depending on weather, we literally had about 7 months a year to really make our annual sales, actually cut that down to about 5 months with rain days, holiday's, etc...so we busted **** to try and keep up working 10-12hr days sometimes 6-7 days a week to try and stay on schedule. Don't get discouraged, if you can wait and your gut confirms a good feeling about a certain guy, in the end..it'll be worth it.

#7 TRUST YOUR GUT. We all have a sort of intuition and the ones that learn to listen always come out ahead, if you don't feel right about a certain guy who's bidding, don't go with them. Sure you may have misread them and they're a great crew..but it's not worth rolling the dice since more often than not your gut never lets you down...I listened to mine concerning customers, and funny part when having drinks with friends in the business later, it never failed that customers name would pop up and the horror stories would start, pretty much confirming my choice not to work with them in the first place..time I didn't listen, I got screwed out of money.

#8 If you have any concerns, please ask the contractor to explain the how and the why's. About 15yrs in I changed how I did my billing/progress payments and made sure I was ahead of the money. About every homeowner baulked when I showed them my terms, and I was happy to explain the why's and how's it came to be that way. Luckily most all understood my stance after I explained it to them, but in a nutshell I got a 50% down pay before scheduling them, and whatever terms necessary depending on scope of work and the final payment was only 10% of total balance..this way if at anytime the HO wanted to act stupid, I could walk away without losing any money out of MY pocket, for their job...I used to budget $10K a yr loss for no pay when I first started, my last year in business I was owed $28K...but it's all relative to gross sales, but there is a trackable trend towards gross sales to no pays...but I knew that and budgeted it in.

Lastly for now I guess
#9 research, research, research on methods, materials, etc...the internet is a great place, just understand typically the internet is clogged up with bad stories, not often any good stories....kinda like the news, all we hear is bad bad bad...same goes with the internet; but that is something you will have to check into throughout the research to see if any problems are due to idiot installations or actual product deficencey.

 

[NUTTSGT]

THE #1 thing:

#2:

#3:

#4: PLEASE, PLEASE

#5 PLEASE

#6 When you decide on a contractor,

#7 TRUST YOUR GUT.

#8 If you have any concerns,
Lastly for now I guess

#9 research, research, research

IHI,

First of all, I edited your post to make it shorter to quote.

I hope you have this post saved somewhere on your computer for future re-posting. It's very informative and honest giving the consumer a view from the other side of things.

 

[ConCretin]

Hey, what about concrete?

 

[IHI]

IHI,

First of all, I edited your post to make it shorter to quote.

I hope you have this post saved somewhere on your computer for future re-posting. It's very informative and honest giving the consumer a view from the other side of things.

LOL, nah, don't need to save it since in the real world all that is lost on 98% of folks and it'll always go back to bottom line pricing. Question was asked here, so I gave as honest of an answer I could that would make the potential customer's life and contractors life much simplier, but again, everything always goes back to rock bottom pricing regardless if builder is legit or not....one of many reason's I finally threw in the towel 3yrs ago and got a "real job" LOL. Sure do miss many aspects of it, but sure don't miss many more things- lack of time with the family being one of the biggest downsides of being self employeed with limited time to make money for not only my family but my employee's families. "where's daddy?...daddy's working honey. I haven't seen him in 2 days, one of these nights daddy will be able to see you before bed time". It's a tough gig and if you break down per hour it took to keep wheels greased, I'd probably have quit yrs ago LOL.

Hey, what about concrete?

Concrete's over rated...go with gravel and you never have to sweep up a mess or use a drip pan ever again

 

[Pluribus]

You're going through the same process I've been contemplating for quite a while now, except I'm not trying to match up with any other buildings appearance-wise. When I finally break out of my analysis to paralysis stupor, I'm likely going to go with stick-built. To get the building set up the way I want, and to have the future flexibility I want, a pole barn would approach the cost of a stick-build. Add to that, I really like concrete stem walls, and I may go taller than normal on those to keep anything but concrete far away from moisture.

Yes, the initial quoted costs for pole barns are tempting. The amount of square footage I can get for the money is way more than I could afford for stick-built. Then I start thinking of the wood poles in the ground and the lowest girt/skirt board/form for concrete slab (don't recall what the correct term is) that is going to be in contact with wet grass and dirt. Sure, those are pressure treated and rated for ground contact, but they're not going to last as long as concrete. Plus, the siding on a pole building extends almost to ground level. That's not good for any siding, even metal, and it's wet where I live. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in on how to get around these (other than the poles themselves) issues, if possible.

 

[bczygan]

I suggest a different approach.
Design your building type by this method.
First, find out how big you can build by checking your zoning and zoning rules.
This will tell you how big, where on your lot, and how high a structure you can build. It will tell you the percent of total lot coverage and percent of rear lot coverage you can use.
Then, check out the building types being used local to you. The predominant type will tell you something about affordability and appropriateness for your climate, and also the availability of builders.
The size and shape and layout of the building or buildings should flow from what your uses will be and constrained by what you are allowed to do, and your budget and future plans.
Once all these questions are answered, your building type will make itself evident.

Pole barns are a less permanent structure, more subject to winds. They are designed to enclose volume economically and won't support additional loaads above their own structure.
Stick built will allow the most variation in layout, especially if used with engineered lumber and steel where needed.
Steel is great for large clear spans and supporting larger loads. But it can also be bought in the form of just enclosing large volumes of space like a pole barn, with no ability to support extra loads.

Now, lets get to the design.
In designing any space or structure, the layout follows the functions you need to accommodate.
The type of large workshop building that a lot of people here on GJ build, especially on larger lots, tend to be what I call multipurpose buildings.
They lean toward the pole barn/large metal building side of things.
Basically they are as big a box as you can afford and fit on your lot.
This approach is versatile. No matter what your uses, you can arrange them in the large open space.
If you are building a smaller building, and want it to fit in more with the residence, then you need to design it to fit the uses better. It becomes more of a purpose built machine with particular spaces assigned to particular uses. The scale and detailing inside and out need special attention.
So from what you said above, you need to go with a hybrid but basically stick built building. Use standard construction to get it to look more residential, use engineered lumber where you need larger openings, and even steel where that is the best choice.

 

[OzCop]

I am in the process of finishing out my new 32x30 garage with 10' walls and 12' ceilings, 4 windows, 1 16x8 door and one 10x8 door, 1 entry door to 16x10 covered porch. My HOA insisted the building had to match the house exterior with same shingle and siding, which in my case is Austin stone. (I live in Highland Village, TX, 23 miles north of Dallas) I fought with them over the issue of having to use the stone on parts of the garage that would not be seen from the street as my property is surrounded by 7' fencing and the only part people could see is from the driveway angle. I lost that battle, and as a result, my estimate costs increased by 7K dollars. As it sits, 99% complete, the cost is just over 60 dollars per 960 square ft. However, that includes massive amounts of concrete as we have special foundation issues in this area of TX and they must adhere to city engineer specs. My driveway extention from existing driveway pad is 12x60 flared into a 30x32 apron, with an additional 16x30 pad off the backside of the apron. We also used Hardi board in areas not covered by stone. I added several fixtures, wall plugs, and switches, as well as two 220 outlets, which nearly doubled the cost of original electrical estimate. Inside is finished with sheetrock walls and ceiling, and side attached garage door openers. Doors and openers were installed by Overhead Door Co., using Liftmaster 8500 series programmable openers with auto-lock feature. Back porch has finished ceiling and two 12x12 10' cedar posts, and porch ceiling has an outdoor ceiling fan and two can lights, plus a light outside the entry/exit door. Ceiling of garage has been painted, all exterior trim has been painted, and walls will be painted Thursday. I am ordering commercial grade epoxy floor finishing for floor and will most likely do that myself. I am installing home kitchen type sink and counters with a 96 in. hardwood counter top, and a two gallon under-sink hot water heater. Garage is wide enough for three cars and deep enough to store small cars back to back if necessary. Also installing a two post lift.

I agree with the poster who builds for a living...decide what you want up front...it is less costly in the long run to get what you want now rather than opting out and adding it later. I wanted to build this thing for 40K, but quickly found out that wasn't going to happen unless I wanted a basic shell on concrete. My advice is to pull together a size and design you want, and go from there. My costs included nearly 2K in city engineering, permits, and inspection costs that I did not expect. The design/blueprint cost was nearly 1200, so there is upwards of 3K and dirt has not been turned. My builder was a friend and charged me ony 10% of the initial cost estimate of 56K, and nothing for over-runs. During my construction period there were 3 price increases on lumber and concrete which also aided in cost over-run. Just be prepared for unexpected expense and build something into your budget to cover it. Good luck with your build.

 

[vetron]

can't say enough good things about folks here to who take the time to give great feedback. Thanks IHI for a long and thoughtful advice post.
thx OZCOP for sharing your trials along the way. plenty to think about now.

 

[rtcblc]

Hey Vetron: When you decide let us know. I'm about 30 miles SW of you in Marsing and have been contemplating stick vs. pole for my up-coming garage/shop build...

 

[BRUTAL]

I just finished a 40x60 with 12' eaves steel building from ICON buildings in Seguin Tx(TT Oscar) with 3" foil lined vinyl batted insulation in the roof and walls. 3 10x14 insulated wind rated roll up doors(Im in hurricane country) I spent 15k on concrete 4000psi, 5" slab 24" stem walls and 2 18" interior beams for both bays divisions with rebar spaced at 16". This incuded excavation and 12 tandems of select fill to build up above grade. I installed my own sewer lines before pour and bought a 15' rolling scaffold and rented 30' ext boom ag forklift. assembled the steel framing and doors myself. then hired a crew of 3 experianced installers to do the insulation and sheeting for $3600.
the building with white roof and trimout with higher quality color matched paint to the cabin. The building was $20,700, 3 doors $4,200. taxes and shipping included.