Pole vs Stick built

[Old Gas Nut]

I have been going back and forth on which way to go on my garage and thought I would ask opinions on here. I need to check to see if pole barns are acceptable in my area, but I would imagine I wouldn't have any problems. If I go stick built we would do all the work ourselves. I would like to have a metal roof and siding so that would be about the only thing I would contract out. If I went with a pole barn, my Dad and I have no experience with pole barns, so I would contract that out along with the metal roof and siding. If I went with a pole barn I would still stud out the walls, insulate and drywall the same as a stick built garage. So, my question is, which would be cheaper to build? I have read that pole barns are cheaper, but i wonder if there would be much of a difference with doing most of the build myself on a stick built garage, or contracting out pole barn and finishing it out like a stick built? What do you guys think?

 

[38Chevy454]

In my case the changeover point is arounbd 1000 sq ft. Below that stick built is less, above that metal frame is cheaper. But with intention to studd out the inside, it may make the stick built more competitive at larger size.

 

[gussteve]

if your framing out the inside why not just stick build the whole thing.what do you plan on doing in your garage?

 

[mtwaterguy]

Use the "bookshelf/commercial girt" installation and all of your wall framing will be done in one step.

 

[Old Gas Nut]

Oops. I forgot to put the dimensions in my post. I'm planning on a 28x36. So that would put it around 1008 sq ft. As far as my intentions for use, I plan on doing some collision repair and playing with hot rods. So I do want it finished out nice and to be able to work in it during the winter. Not looking to build just a storage place.

I'm just a dumb body man, so you'll have to enlighten me on the "bookshelf/commercial girt".

 

[mtwaterguy]

Instead of mounting the girts on the outside of the posts, turn the 2x on it's side and place in between the posts. Using a 2x the same size as the post frames the inside and outside at the same time.

 

[Tman]

I have built many both ways. Stick is always easier in the end. Pole goes up quick but harder to deal with finishing out. Thats why so many pole barns never get finished inside!

 

[mtwaterguy]

I have built many both ways. Stick is always easier in the end. Pole goes up quick but harder to deal with finishing out. Thats why so many pole barns never get finished inside!

Did you even read the post right above yours?

 

[Old Gas Nut]

Instead of mounting the girts on the outside of the posts, turn the 2x on it's side and place in between the posts. Using a 2x the same size as the post frames the inside and outside at the same time.

That's a neat concept mtwaterguy. I'm surprised I haven't seen that technique. Can't say that I have seen anybody do that on here either. Of course I can't say that I have looked at every build either.

 

[mtwaterguy]

I've built 4 that way. The first in Oregon in the 80's, the last here in Montana. Not only a material/labor saver but it also prevents racking, making a stronger structure. There have been several that have posted here that have used this technique.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Instead of mounting the girts on the outside of the posts, turn the 2x on it's side and place in between the posts. Using a 2x the same size as the post frames the inside and outside at the same time.

How are you attaching the 2bys to the posts ? Toenailing or another 2x for a "side plate" ?

 

[moonlight_ken]

I am getting ready to build a 28 x 32 workshop in Northern Michigan and after figuring in the cost of both pole barn and stick built they both ended up about the same. I am building a two story gambrel that will be fully heated...

 

[ddawg16]

As mentioned....around 1000 sq ft seems to be the break even point....

But, I would be inclined to think that if you want to go 2-story...stick would be a lot easier.

If you go stick....for you guys in the cold climates...I would 'highly' suggest using 2x6's for the wall studs. You end up with 2 extra inches of room for insulation and you would be amazed at how much straighter 2x6 walls are over 2x4....

My garage is 20x25....2-story....2x6's for the walls.

Click on the garage build link in my sig for pics....

 

[jomobco]

Shelf girts

Here's a picture of my shelf girts. You can drop insulated bats horizontally between them for easy insulation.

 

[larry_g]

You can see an example of commercial girts here; http://www.mwbsc.biz/html/bldmodel.html

and also I used a combination of standard and commercial in my building.

on edit I see in John's picture above there are a couple of different ways to do them.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[bams50]

This is interesting.

The builder I have been talking to at this point definitely thinks pole is the way to go for me, even though mine will be finished throughout. Details in the link below, but briefly it's 50Wx120Lx18H. Steel roof and siding, heavy snow load trusses. Opinions on what you all think is best for me?

 

[tyjoja]

I vote for stick. Foundation means no wood touching the ground. Carpenter ants... termites...

 

[mtwaterguy]

Pole, I've never had problems.

 

[Kevin54]

It all depends on what one is comfortable with. Myself, I prefer stickbuilt because that is what I know. I'm also for a foundation over a slab just to keep things drier. And with stickbuilt and a foundation it's easy to gain some height relatively easy by going up a few block higher on the foundation. As far as prices, I think both work out to about the same by the time you finish out the inside though.

 

[jomobco]

I vote for stick. Foundation means no wood touching the ground. Carpenter ants... termites...

There are methods now where the wooden posts are connected to concrete sunken posts. Something like this:
http://www.permacolumnnw.com/benefits.php

 

[Dave Maxwell]

Stick was 75,000 for me compared to 35,000 for pole. 42x72x16. Maybe I was getting screwed on the stick price

 

[mtwaterguy]

Stick was 75,000 for me compared to 35,000 for pole. 42x72x16. Maybe I was getting screwed on the stick price

That's pretty close to the numbers I've received. Pole barns are considerably more cost effective.

 

[ky-mike]

Re: Shelf girts

Here's a picture of my shelf girts. You can drop insulated bats horizontally between them for easy insulation.

This really makes it look like it would be difficult to hang cabinets with the 2x boards between the posts being sideways

 

[brianh]

Why not just go all steel? since you want metal roof and siding, thats what I did with my 40x60.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

I wanted stuck ti match siding on house. But not for that kind of price difference. I got tan with red waiscott. House will have tan siding with red brick.

 

[mtwaterguy]

Re: Shelf girts

This really makes it look like it would be difficult to hang cabinets with the 2x boards between the posts being sideways

It's not any more difficult than hitting a 2x that's running verticle.

 

[Highbeam]

Do pole and build it yourself. Considerable savings to be had and there really isn't anything challenging about it, nothing more diificult than a stick built. I have never built a new structure of either type and I put up my pole barn with only occasional assistance of one other guy. It's a simple building style, follow the prints.

The only thing I sorta worry about is the poles sinking or rotting. The new treatment is not as unhealthy as the old stuff and nobody knows if it will last as well. My poles were rough 6x8 doug fir #1 poles and were heavy and wet with strong smelling preservative. We'll see.

I am also finishing the inside with sticks. I don't like the commercial girt configuration since the wood looks more likely to sag between posts since you are loading the girts in the weak direction. It is easy and fairly cheap to built little wall sections and tip them up between posts. The requirement for true 6x8 poles forced me into regular vertical walls anyway since I wasn't going to find true 2x8s for the girts.

I think the reason that so many pole barns are unfinished inside is because they were not intended to be finished inside. It's a choice. Pole barns are cheap and their owners are often cheap as well. You have the option of saving the money.

Full Bids for my 1800 SF doubled when going from pole to stick.

 

[mothgrey]

The only thing I sorta worry about is the poles sinking or rotting. The new treatment is not as unhealthy as the old stuff and nobody knows if it will last as well. My poles were rough 6x8 doug fir #1 poles and were heavy and wet with strong smelling preservative. We'll see.

Has anyone used those post protectors? Not sure those make sense to me?

 

[jomobco]

Re: Shelf girts

It's not any more difficult than hitting a 2x that's running verticle.

You've got both horizontal targets (2"x6" laid flat) and vertical targets (the 8' on center 6"x6" posts in my case). The only thing I had to do was shim out with 1" furring strips since I skinned the inside with the same metal as the outside (after I insulated).

 

[ky-mike]

Re: Shelf girts

You've got both horizontal targets (2"x6" laid flat) and vertical targets (the 8' on center 6"x6" posts in my case). The only thing I had to do was shim out with 1" furring strips since I skinned the inside the same as the outside (after I insulated).

Wouldn't the 2x6 laid flat tend to sag if used to support any cabinets? It seems like vertical studs would be much stronger than horizontal girts. It seems that those finishing pole barns on the inside go ahead and frame out walls, which seems like extra materials cost over and above a stick-built structure.

I'm not being critical, I am just trying to understand the pros and cons of both structure types as I am looking to build an outbuilding within the next year.

 

[Dave Maxwell]

That was the same thought I had. If I'm going to have to stud out the inside anyway. Why not just go stick built. Even studding it out. I still would use 40,000 dollars in lumber to make up the difference in price. For forty I could finish the inside pretty nice. The 75,000 for the stick would still need inside finishing. Just my thoughts from a year of shopping

 

[toyotadriver]

I built a 30x40 stick framed on a slab. I have 1.5 inch foam sheets between the purlins and that's covered with double bubble foil. The 2x4 studs have R13 insulation between them. Everything is covered with OSB and there is another 1.5 inch layer of foam sheets on the underside of the roof....for a total of 3 inches of foam.

When I'm done, I'll have about $22k in it. I don't think I would have saved anything by building a pole style building.

IMO pole buildings only excel if you are not going to have a concrete foundation. If you are gonna have concrete, then I think it should be stick framed. I know some will disagree. That's fine. I wouldn't intentionally build a pole barn for a shop. However, if that was all I had access to, I'd take it. Better than working outside in the weather...been there...done that. Don't want to do it again.

 

[Panz]

Has anyone used those post protectors? Not sure those make sense to me?

I'm in the process of building a 480 sq ft post frame building ("pole shed") as a backyard workshop. I went through all the second guessing of what to build, pole vs stick. I chose post frame because it allowed me to get a structure up within 2 weekends with 4 helpers over 4 days and not pay the large upfront cost of doing concrete right away. I have no previous experience in building, but I spent the past year learning (and saving) to make my workshop a reality.

Back to post protectors:

For columns I ended up nail-laminating my own 2x6's treated to "foundation grade" (aka UC4B) and added post protectors. The product I used was called "Post Protector". The idea of the post protector is it keeps water and soil away from the post slowing decay. My big disclaimer after using this product is the sales person claimed I would be able to use this product assuming my columns measured exactly 4.5 x 5.5"... This meant I had to spend some time planing the last 4 ft of the columns as several were 1/8" to 1/4" oversize. Still after achieving the required dimensions the post protector would get 90% on to the post and split down the side. After taking a post protector apart I found the blow mold or roto-molded part is significantly thicker at the bottom and you would have to get down to 4x5" for the bottom part of the post to fit. I was more than a little peeved after spending $25 or 30 on a post protector that really didn't fit. The post protectors are "technically" made for glue-lam columns, but I would think there would be issues fitting the post protectors even on glue-lams unless they have been able to achieve better tolerance control since my purchase.

 

[555]

I helped a friend build a 30 x 40 storage building/garage on a 4" concrete slab. He told me the stick built structure using 2x4s was cheaper then the same sized pole barn. We did all the labor except the slab and the roof joists which were factory built. It's sided with western cedar siding to match his house (HOA requirement) and has a matching shingle roof. I didn't see the cost, but I'm assuming part of the "savings" were realized by subtracting our labor from pole building estimate.

 

[jomobco]

Re: Shelf girts

Wouldn't the 2x6 laid flat tend to sag if used to support any cabinets? It seems like vertical studs would be much stronger than horizontal girts. It seems that those finishing pole barns on the inside go ahead and frame out walls, which seems like extra materials cost over and above a stick-built structure.

2x6's are also screwed into the metal outer skin so no, they won't sag. And in my case they're also screwed into the metal inner skin I used on the inside of my building. About every 8 inches or so I believe. You don't need to frame the walls if you skin the inside in metal. I don't see why you would need to do it with drywall either. Just cut to fit the supports that are already there. I also avoided with my 40x80 building having an engineered foundation by going post and frame. No offense taken. Keep asking questions until you decide which way you want to go.

Edit: And with the shelf girts easily accepting R19 in the walls insulation costs were decent. I then blew R30 on top of the metal skinned ceiling. This place was toasty last winter and I heated it with only 1 pallet of wood pellets for my stove. This is with 14' ceilings. Granted my wife sectioned off 16x40 of the shop so I'm only heating 64x40.

Edit2: I can't believe with all the pics I took of my shop being built I didn't get one of the R19 bats going in between the girts. You space the girts so the bats roll in horizontally. Really simple.

You can check my profile for a few more pics but I've got a ton if you want to see anything more specific.

 

[Wastedwagesracing]

Has anyone used those post protectors? Not sure those make sense to me?

I used the sleeves they did not fit the poles well and split. Save your money.

 

[jumpingryan]

In your case, since you want a nice inside finish, go stick built. They are far easier to wire, insulate, and do other utilities. Drywall goes easier as well. If you go pole, you will be framing the inside anyways...

Ryan

 

[wnstwolf]

I was in your shoes 18 months ago. Key for me was I was going to have concrete day one. If your going to pour the slab I see no reason not to go stick built. If your trying to save montey and pout later then you really need to look at the pole structure. I have 60x40 all steel with raized center storage over center bay. Total all in for materials here in NY was $19k.. Not including Concrete which was another 10k.. As soon as I get my act together I will post a build link to the money pit.. ;-)

 

[jomobco]

In your case, since you want a nice inside finish, go stick built. They are far easier to wire, insulate, and do other utilities. Drywall goes easier as well. If you go pole, you will be framing the inside anyways...

Ryan

Not true see my posts above. See my profile for pictures. Very simple to wire, insulate and finish the inside if built properly.

 

[mtwaterguy]

In your case, since you want a nice inside finish, go stick built. They are far easier to wire, insulate, and do other utilities. Drywall goes easier as well. If you go pole, you will be framing the inside anyways...

Ryan

These remarks lead me to the question... did you even take the time to read this thread before you posted?