If you were planning on building a garage/workshop. Insulated. What route would you recommend and why? Pole vs stick. Was going to go stick built just for the ease of finishing the inside, but the idea of building a pole barn instead has crept in. Will be in a neighborhood so I was thinking about vinyl siding. But some metal looks just as good. Just would like some feedback before I jump off into this. Appreciate the help.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Pole vs stick
- Thread starter Davis21
- Start date
readhead
Well-known member
What size is the building?
Tugs Compound
Well-known member
For a workshop I would go stick built. For cold storage or very large building I would go post frame. The stick built with a poured foundation or a few courses of block really helps to keep the rodents out. The pole barns go up really fast but seem to take longer to finish out that a stick frame. It all just depends on how "nice" you want to finish it out. Thats just my opinion.
30x50x10. I was thinking the same about the blocking. Would 1 be enough or should I go 2 rows? My next question, and it may be a dumb one, but how would you get the block to work with the bottom plate of the wall. If I’m thinking right, the blocks are 8 in wide and the bottom plate 2x4 or 2x6. Would I anchor them flush to the outside of the blocks? And then just have an exposed lip on the inside? Or would it work out given the insulation and wall panel? I appreciate everybody’s help. This is my first big project I’ve attempted myself.
readhead
Well-known member
At that size you might be better off going with steel.
ddawg16
Well-known member
Just started ours and decided to go stick built. 50x140 w/ 15ft ceiling
Do you have a project thread going? If not, please start one. It's how most of us learn from your mistakes...and what you did right.
ddawg16
Well-known member
30x50x10. I was thinking the same about the blocking. Would 1 be enough or should I go 2 rows? My next question, and it may be a dumb one, but how would you get the block to work with the bottom plate of the wall. If I’m thinking right, the blocks are 8 in wide and the bottom plate 2x4 or 2x6. Would I anchor them flush to the outside of the blocks? And then just have an exposed lip on the inside? Or would it work out given the insulation and wall panel? I appreciate everybody’s help. This is my first big project I’ve attempted myself.
I would still do stick. 30' trusses are not an issue. And you can make it look like the house reducing the chances anyone would complain.
Instead of doing block, why not just pour a stem wall. It can be done at the same time as the foundation. If you use blocking, you will need rebar sticking up just about every block and then you fill the cavities of the block with concrete. It's actually more work than just pouring it all at once.
Have a look at my garage build (link is in my signature) and you will see how it was done.
Since your going 10' up, I'd use 2x6's for the walls. Minimal cost difference and your walls will be a lot straighter. It also gives you a bit more room for insulation should you decide to heat/cool the building. 2x4's Over 8' long tend to not be straight unless you cherry pick them.
You buy 12' length boards....cut off 2' and use the cut off piece as blocking between studs.
On the stem wall, make it 6.5" wide. Your bottom plate will be 5.5"....outside you will have 1/2" shear wall (OSB or CDX plywood)...inside 1/2 or 5/8" drywall or OSB.
So...with your bottom plate centered....you will have 1/2" on either side allowing your shear wall and drywall to be flush with the stem wall.
I made the mistake of making my stem wall only 6" wide. Drywall was flush, but the shear wall stuck out. Not a big deal but with 1" of stucco on top, it sticks out....
That wider stem wall also gives you plenty of room to run electrical conduit and any plumbing you may want to put in.
I would still do stick. 30' trusses are not an issue. And you can make it look like the house reducing the chances anyone would complain.
Instead of doing block, why not just pour a stem wall. It can be done at the same time as the foundation. If you use blocking, you will need rebar sticking up just about every block and then you fill the cavities of the block with concrete. It's actually more work than just pouring it all at once.
Have a look at my garage build (link is in my signature) and you will see how it was done.
Since your going 10' up, I'd use 2x6's for the walls. Minimal cost difference and your walls will be a lot straighter. It also gives you a bit more room for insulation should you decide to heat/cool the building. 2x4's Over 8' long tend to not be straight unless you cherry pick them.
You buy 12' length boards....cut off 2' and use the cut off piece as blocking between studs.
On the stem wall, make it 6.5" wide. Your bottom plate will be 5.5"....outside you will have 1/2" shear wall (OSB or CDX plywood)...inside 1/2 or 5/8" drywall or OSB.
So...with your bottom plate centered....you will have 1/2" on either side allowing your shear wall and drywall to be flush with the stem wall.
I made the mistake of making my stem wall only 6" wide. Drywall was flush, but the shear wall stuck out. Not a big deal but with 1" of stucco on top, it sticks out....
That wider stem wall also gives you plenty of room to run electrical conduit and any plumbing you may want to put in.
Thank ya for that good ideas
Any advice on stemming the plumbing before concrete pour? Would like to have running water, hot/cold, for cleaning animals and clean up on various projects. Not too worried about sewage and bathroom as shop will be close enough to house if nature calls. Was thinking about just running a buried drain line. Was thinking just tying into house water main. Any issues I should be Leary off?
ddawg16
Well-known member
Any advice on stemming the plumbing before concrete pour? Would like to have running water, hot/cold, for cleaning animals and clean up on various projects. Not too worried about sewage and bathroom as shop will be close enough to house if nature calls. Was thinking about just running a buried drain line. Was thinking just tying into house water main. Any issues I should be Leary off?
You want to get water out there. If you think there is any chance you want a bathroom in there, then go ahead and run the sewer line.
It sounds like you garage is going to be pretty close to the house. In my case, my garage is your typical California 2-car detached behind the house. It's about 25' from the side man door to the closest bathroom. But, late at night, I've been known to 'water the grass'.......hey, water shortage here.....
I ran water to the side of my garage...I have a couple of spigots out there along with a sink in my BBQ grill setup. The sink just drains to the grass.
For hot water? I'd put a small water heater out there. Otherwise, your going to waste a lot of water waiting for the hot stuff to reach you. Actually, in your case, a small tankless would be ideal.
Now is the time to run conduit. PVC is cheap....don't be afraid to go bigger.
I'm assuming you want at least 60-100 amps out there. I have 50A....I never get close to that. If you do a 1.5" for power, you won't have space issues.
I'd run a 1" just for data.....Ethernet/coax/phone.
And another 1" for water....but I'd run a PEX line inside the 1". I know, over kill....but, if anyone digs, they will hit the PVC first....save having to replace the PEX if you did direct burial.
For the Water, unless you want water inside, then just run it to a spot outside the garage. For data and power, use sweeps (gradual 90's) to bring the pipe up the stem wall where you think you want your sub panel and Ethernet.
You want to get water out there. If you think there is any chance you want a bathroom in there, then go ahead and run the sewer line.
It sounds like you garage is going to be pretty close to the house. In my case, my garage is your typical California 2-car detached behind the house. It's about 25' from the side man door to the closest bathroom. But, late at night, I've been known to 'water the grass'.......hey, water shortage here.....
I ran water to the side of my garage...I have a couple of spigots out there along with a sink in my BBQ grill setup. The sink just drains to the grass.
For hot water? I'd put a small water heater out there. Otherwise, your going to waste a lot of water waiting for the hot stuff to reach you. Actually, in your case, a small tankless would be ideal.
Now is the time to run conduit. PVC is cheap....don't be afraid to go bigger.
I'm assuming you want at least 60-100 amps out there. I have 50A....I never get close to that. If you do a 1.5" for power, you won't have space issues.
I'd run a 1" just for data.....Ethernet/coax/phone.
And another 1" for water....but I'd run a PEX line inside the 1". I know, over kill....but, if anyone digs, they will hit the PVC first....save having to replace the PEX if you did direct burial.
For the Water, unless you want water inside, then just run it to a spot outside the garage. For data and power, use sweeps (gradual 90's) to bring the pipe up the stem wall where you think you want your sub panel and Ethernet.
I’ve had the water the grass thought too...hopefully won’t have to worry about fertilizing the grass. Lol.
I would like to have a spigot outside on front and back. And water inside. I thought about tankless heater. Think that’s be best option. I got a guy coming to pour slab, just not sure what all I needed to have prepped before hand as far as water and electricity stubs ( and anything else I’m missing)
ddawg16
Well-known member
I’ve had the water the grass thought too...hopefully won’t have to worry about fertilizing the grass. Lol.
I would like to have a spigot outside on front and back. And water inside. I thought about tankless heater. Think that’s be best option. I got a guy coming to pour slab, just not sure what all I needed to have prepped before hand as far as water and electricity stubs ( and anything else I’m missing)
Who is preping the forms?
ddawg16
Well-known member
Concrete crew
Ok....so what you do is get all your trenching done before they are finished setting up the forms.
You don't have to have all the PVC in place before they pour, just the PVC that will be covered by concrete. Basically, the sweeps....stubs through the stem wall...and enough pipe to get past the forms.
I think I had about 4' of pipe extending past the forms into my yard....enough so I could cover it with dirt to hold it in place and create a 'dam' of dirt to keep the concrete from flowing into my trench.
Since you are doing a fresh slab, rather than worry about ground rods, do an Ufer ground. I ran about 20' of #4 bare copper wire along the bottom of the footing and tied it to the rebar. I left enough sticking up to run to my load center. This will save you having to do ground rods. This is about as good of a ground as you can get.
Diesel Dan
Well-known member
My 40x72 shop/house is stick built on a foundation with 1.5 course of block above interior slab. 16' 2x6 and 2x8 "studs" making a 17.5' interior height.
The only pipe that goes under my footings is the 4" septic line.
X2 on the ufer ground. I wasn't there when the footer was poured and the Ufer ground was left out so I installed 5 ground rods instead.
The only pipe that goes under my footings is the 4" septic line.
X2 on the ufer ground. I wasn't there when the footer was poured and the Ufer ground was left out so I installed 5 ground rods instead.
Tugs Compound
Well-known member
I would also recommend going to 12' height, I have never heard anyone complain that their garage is too tall. Especially if you want a lift in the future. The 12' height is also nice for more storage space. Also put the garage doors on the 50' length. I'm actually in the process of designing a 30'x54'x12' attached stick frame garage right now so I'm interested in following your project.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
You mentioned being in a subdivision so you may want to check the CC&R's as that may spell out what is and what is not acceptable.
Some cities/counties let anything fly and others such as ours state that it must match the house exactly in construction, brick, stucco and asphalt shingles and no pole construction.
I would also suggest going to at least 14' ceiling for accommodating a lift and utilizing at least 12' wide doors for ease of entrance/egress.
Some cities/counties let anything fly and others such as ours state that it must match the house exactly in construction, brick, stucco and asphalt shingles and no pole construction.
I would also suggest going to at least 14' ceiling for accommodating a lift and utilizing at least 12' wide doors for ease of entrance/egress.
Novamania
Active member
Now is the time to run water and waste. You are talking about a very minor cost at this time. If you never decide to use it, you are not out very much. Decide where you might like a toilet and sink and plumb to that spot. You can cap it off under the slab and access it later if you wish. I have a nice shop that I added on to in 2009. At that time I added a bathroom and an inside wash bay with drain. Shop is now 66' x 48'. I have to say the BEST thing I did was the bathroom. Here this last month I added a tile shower too but that's another story. I am older so more trips to the can. Do it. You won't be sorry.
MrScott99
Well-known member
I have built two shops over the years, first one stick framed and second one a pole building. Both were 30' x 50'. "If" I ever built another one (good Lord I hope not!) it would most definitely be a stick framed structure. Just a better, tighter building overall. Easier to finish out inside too. Listen to the guys saying to go taller. Both of mine were 12' and I almost wish I had gone 14'. Also good advice on running water and waste lines during construction, even if you don't hook them up until later. Easy and cheap to do now, not so much later. A floor drain or two is also a good idea.
Diesel Dan
Well-known member
If initial funds are limited I'd do a smaller foot print but as tall as possible. Extra space is easier to add on than extra height. If you ever think about a RV you may want a 14' tall door as many RVs these days and are just under 13'6" tall at the AC units.
Milzo
Well-known member
Another option that I've seen the amish do locally is a pole foundation with stick frame above. This saves a lot of foundation cost. Basically how it works is poles get sunk in the ground as footers then get lopped off above grade using a laser so they are all level. Then a 2x12 is attached to each side of the 6x6 poles like a deck beam. Then a 2x is laid flat on top of the beams creating a wood foundation. Then from that point up stick frame. I was going to do this for my building but found I have solid bedrock that's near impossible to drill through so we just poured a stem wall.
I estimated it would have saved me $5000 - $7000 in foundation cost
I estimated it would have saved me $5000 - $7000 in foundation cost
Last edited:
Diesel Dan
Well-known member
One day garage BS I only seen living in ohio.
We bought a house with one, not impressed.
We bought a house with one, not impressed.
Clammer73
Member
If you were planning on building a garage/workshop. Insulated. What route would you recommend and why? Pole vs stick. Was going to go stick built just for the ease of finishing the inside, but the idea of building a pole barn instead has crept in. Will be in a neighborhood so I was thinking about vinyl siding. But some metal looks just as good. Just would like some feedback before I jump off into this. Appreciate the help.
Im with you on this and also leaning to pole built.
I have been looking for a list of "must haves or must do's" before pulling the trigger on a pole building. Other than the various companies websites, I haven't found a good list that could point me in a good direction.
meathooker
Well-known member
I did steel buildings my due to size. Working on inside now. I’d do stick frame if I could do it again.