Polisher/Buffer

[DHCrocks]

Then wash with only water for the next few months as you will find soap does nothing for you if the car is properly waxed. Except wear away the wax.

I think you should always use a soap/shampoo if it's a car wash product it won't remove the wax. The soap is needed to help lift the dirt particles off the paint surface and lubricate the surface so you don't create micro marring when washing the car. Just using plain water will just drag the particles along the surface. I prefer to use a foam gun as it provides a thick foam to lift off the dirt. If you want to do a quick was Optimum norinse is a great product.

 

[jshillin]

I think you should always use a soap/shampoo if it's a car wash product it won't remove the wax. The soap is needed to help lift the dirt particles off the paint surface and lubricate the surface so you don't create micro marring when washing the car. Just using plain water will just drag the particles along the surface. I prefer to use a foam gun as it provides a thick foam to lift off the dirt. If you want to do a quick was Optimum norinse is a great product.

I completely agree. If you use Dawn dish liquid, it will remove your LSP, but using a good car wash in the strength stated on the bottle it will not strip your LSP. Using just water is not a good idea because like he said above, the soap is needed for lubrication and to lift and carry the dirt away.

 

[fasteddie24]

Are the Griot's Garage polishers any good? I just got a coupon in the mail for a steep discount on one.

I believe that Griot's is the Porter Cable.
Also, check out zainostore.com for waxes and polishes.

 

[Chris Adams]

I think you should always use a soap/shampoo if it's a car wash product it won't remove the wax. The soap is needed to help lift the dirt particles off the paint surface and lubricate the surface so you don't create micro marring when washing the car. Just using plain water will just drag the particles along the surface. I prefer to use a foam gun as it provides a thick foam to lift off the dirt. If you want to do a quick was Optimum norinse is a great product.

Not really a problem.
I use filtered water on my pressure washer. There is no 'dragging dirt' involved. Even if I didn't use the pressure washer, consider the 'dirt' is on five-six layers of wax. Use plenty of water and it just comes right off. Of course I live in a desert, no 'dirt' just mostly bugs and road grime, which comes off wax with just spraying water.
I did one car with premium car soap, the other with just water. After ten gentle washings the car with soap needed to be re-waxed. 30 washings with water only the wax still looked like new.
No scratches, no micro-scratches.
Still got a gloss like a mirror, still beads like new.
Soap as lubricant is a great idea, but my real life results don’t match the theory.
Best way to clean a car is with pressurized filtered water. Then you can dry it with either microfiber towels or air.
I prefer the microfibers because air spits particles of sand into the paint if you aren’t careful.

 

[BUBJEL]

My opinion is that a rotary is not very hard to operate at all; today's factory clears are all very hard; if you use a little common sense the rotary is the way to go.

 

[Chris Adams]

My opinion is that a rotary is not very hard to operate at all; today's factory clears are all very hard; if you use a little common sense the rotary is the way to go.

Got to disagree.
I have several friends who do paint and body work.
They mess up paint regularly with their rotary buffers.
Seriously, they claim the rotary is faster, and for some jobs it is necessary, but I have watched all three of them (two pro's, one very good amateur) burn paint, usually on corners, always from getting in a hurry, or being tired.
You only have to screw up ONE tiny little place and unless you do painting, you are out the big bucks. Even if you do paint, repairing a small place is major.
We just had to re-spray a bumper cover on one of the little cars.
25 bucks for paint (Discount from a buddy) 10 bucks for reducer, 35 bucks for clear and hardener, plus 10 bucks for primer. Then about 3 hours of prep, shooting, and cleanup.
If I had had to pay someone to shoot this, it would have run 300 bucks, easy.
As is, I did the grunt work, a buddy shot it for free.

The patch was about the size of your palm, or about what 1 SECOND of inattention with a rotary buffer would eat.
In doing over 50 cars with a PC I’ve NEVER burnt, scratched, marked, or in any way damaged any paint, even when in a hurry, tired, distracted. Frankly, buffing a car is a great way to relax if you are using an orbital.
It's very stressful if you are using a rotary.



Note;
This patch involved my wife, our power gate and backing up with frosted over windows, not a buffer, but the job is exactly the same.

 

[JayL]

Can I get a better price for a 7424 than this?

http://www.coastaltool.com/a/port/7424-polisher.htm

 

[Stanger]

I disagree, Chris. RO's are slow and won't touch many hard clears. My UDM on speed 6 w/Menz SIP has to be worked forever to get enough heat to break down and remove scratches. I couldn't get through cars without my Makita. If you plan on getting serious, a rotary is the only way to fly, just learn how to use it.

 

[jshillin]

Can I get a better price for a 7424 than this?

http://www.coastaltool.com/a/port/7424-polisher.htm

That will be about the best price going with the LC backing plate. I'd check detailersdomain.com and autogeek.net to see if they are running any package deals that come with a variety of pads. You'll want atleast orange, white & blue or black to start.

Thanks

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

JayL,

I agree with jshillin on this one. I have bought a lot of tools from coastal but the two places he mentioned have some good deals including pads and (in some cases) polish. I have bought from both of them and they are good companies to deal with.

Stanger is correct in that some paints require the use of a rotary without spending a LOT of time correcting the paint. Late model german cars with ceramiclear paint need a polish similar to Menzerna SIP and Nano as well as a good rotary to correct.

Having said that, you DON'T want to learn how to correct paint with a rotary on new Mercedes. It can get REAL expensive in a hurry to fix when you screw up. The PC will do a good job and is very safe when you don't stay in one spot for more than 5 seconds or so. It might take a little longer but the PC alway has a place in a detailers arsenal even if you upgrade later on to a Fles or rotary.

One thing that will help you learn is to go to a junk yard, buy a door panel, hood, trunk lid, etc. that is too damaged to sell. They will often give you one one you explain you just want to practice on it. This will get you used to the machine, the time it takes to breakdown the polish, use of different pads, polishes, etc. before starting on your ride. Try to get a panel from the same make and year as your car as the paint will be similar to what you have.

One other item, I alway use car wash (I'm partial to PB's Super Slick and Suds) when washing my cars. Dust in the desert might come off with a pressure washer but sticky red Georgia clay takes a little more work. Meg's Gold Class is a good over the counter car wash also. Use two buckets with a grit guard in the bottom. One is for soap and the other to rinse. Always rinse and wipe on the grit guard before you dip into the soap. Do not use circular motions, go with the body lines (this eliminates a LOT of problems) and you can get by with polishing the car every year or two.

I try to clay with a mild clay every three or four months to keep any major problems down to a minor level. This will leave the paint nice and smooth and ready for your favorite LSP. I just happened to notice that several of us use the term "LSP". That is your "Last Step Process" with is a fancy term for wax or sealant to protect the work you have done. That is a subject all to its self for another day...

 

[JayL]

Thank you guys for the feedbacks.

I'm ready to get a 7424. I only question in my mind now is what size of backing pad to get 5" or 6". I know that the 5" backing pad with the 6.5" pads will be a bit more forgiving.

Question is does it make it better than the 6" backing pad setup?

 

[jshillin]

Thank you guys for the feedbacks.

I'm ready to get a 7424. I only question in my mind now is what size of backing pad to get 5" or 6". I know that the 5" backing pad with the 6.5" pads will be a bit more forgiving.

Question is does it make it better than the 6" backing pad setup?

Get the 5" backing plate. The smaller pads are better on the PC. It would hurt to get a 3 or 3.5" backing plate as well for spot polishing or in tight areas. That's the only thing I use my PC for anymore.

Thanks

- Jason

 

[pl_silverado]

x2 to whoever said autopia & autogeek are addicting.

the first week i started reading those forums, well, lets just say my wallet wasn't happy. I've amassed quite a bit of stuff since, but im not even gonna go there

get yourself a rotary, the makita one is great, and lighter than the dewalt, but the dewalt 849 is a beast....most body shops in the area use it. i love it, works great on boats too.

as far as pads, i like 3m velcro foam pads, i think their 8". I use a 6.5" backing plate on them.

i started buffing my sisters truck today, previous owner neglected it pretty badly, we'll see how good i am

 

[RAYJAY]

That will be about the best price going with the LC backing plate. I'd check detailersdomain.com and autogeek.net to see if they are running any package deals that come with a variety of pads. You'll want atleast orange, white & blue or black to start.

Thanks

yellow is the most used pad for cutting you can control the cut with the polish you use

i use on a normal detail
(lakes pads colors rember some other manufacturers use a different color system )

super slick soap /bug off in foam gun

super slick soap in bucket

clay bar after washing

then


yellow with ssr3

orange with ssr 2.5

white with ssr2.5

white with ssr1

i use black for the sealers




Jeff







here is the wifes sooby i just did ,the paint was like sand paper

also the pads and stuff i used is listed there also


http://www.detailcity.org/forums/detailers-showcase/25784-04-subaru-gt-r-title.html

 

[vette-kid]

yellow is the most used pad for cutting you can control the cut with the polish you use

i use on a normal detail
(lakes pads colors rember some other manufacturers use a different color system )

super slick soap /bug off in foam gun

super slick soap in bucket

clay bar after washing

then


yellow with ssr3

orange with ssr 2.5

white with ssr2.5

white with ssr1

i use black for the sealers




Jeff







here is the wifes sooby i just did ,the paint was like sand paper

also the pads and stuff i used is listed there also


http://www.detailcity.org/forums/detailers-showcase/25784-04-subaru-gt-r-title.html

So let me be sure Im reading this correctly...you actually hit the car 5 times with your polisher? I understand that the worse the paint is, the more work it will take...but I was expecting one or two passes once or twice a year (some kind of swirl remover and then a good wax). Am I grossly underestimating this process? I think I have looked at so many different products I have confused myself

 

[DHCrocks]

once you get the paint in good shape it doesn't take much at all maybe once a year I'll go with a green pad and menzerna final polish on the areas that have developed minor imperfections. it doesn't take much at all, I just re did my whole car and it took less then an hour. The first time you do it set aside a whole day. The first time I did it I took two passes with the orange pad and intensive polish then a pass with green pad and PF and then finally blue pad with IP and finished off with 5 coats of Zaino, that was a two day affair. But I had a bunch of shallow scratches and a ton of spiderwebs. Get the Flex and save yourself some time. From what I seen it cuts so much faster then the Porter Cable.

 

[Vinko]

On a different but somewhat related note: I just picked up a bottle of "Forever Black: Bumper and Trim Cleaner and Conditioner". For some faded bumper and skirt/trim detailing. Anyone use this stuff? I guess I should mask off the paint? Does this stuff actually "dye" the trim and molding on the car? I maybe should've looked into it more before I bought it. It looked good in the catalog (from Bavarian Auto), but now I'm not so sure....

 

[35mastr]

For a complete kit Adams is pretty good deal.

I use their products and I am happy.

 

[RAYJAY]

So let me be sure Im reading this correctly...you actually hit the car 5 times with your polisher? I understand that the worse the paint is, the more work it will take...but I was expecting one or two passes once or twice a year (some kind of swirl remover and then a good wax). Am I grossly underestimating this process? I think I have looked at so many different products I have confused myself

here is some vids on how to use a PC

http://paintcarendetailing.com/pc_video.html

also more here

http://www.youtube.com/user/blkyukon


and as for ADAMS products there cheaper more high quality products out there.

Jeff

 

[vette-kid]

here is some vids on how to use a PC

http://paintcarendetailing.com/pc_video.html

also more here

http://www.youtube.com/user/blkyukon


and as for ADAMS products there cheaper more high quality products out there.

Jeff

Jeff,

My confusion is less about how to actually use the PC, but with which products to use and in what order.

 

[jbarila]

I like the Porta Cable model. As far as accessories try Adams
http://www.adamspolishes.com/c-14-machine-polishing.aspx
If you poke around the Adams site there is a link for a discounted Porta Cable. Around $100.00 if memory serves me.

 

[Griot's Garage]

I can't believe I didn't see this thread until now. Sean (vette-kid) shot me a PM letting me know about the thread and asking me to post up some details about our orbital.

Our Random Orbital is made specifically for us by a private label manufacturer. It is something we designed and have them build for us, so you cannot get our orbital anywhere else. Previous to carrying our own orbital we did offer the PC, which is a great machine. However, when they were purchased by Black and Decker a few years back we decided it was time to build our own. This gave us more control over quality and features of the machine.

Our machine was built using many of the features we liked about the PC. However, we did improve it in a few areas to make it more specific to detailing. The notable upgrades over the PC are:

- 7,000 orbits per minute (6,000 on the PC)
- Higher torque motor
- Less vibration
- Tighter orbit pattern for more focused polishing
- Top mount handle for better control and comfort
- It's black and red

I hope this information helps! I'll keep my eye on this thread, so feel free to ask more questions or just shoot me a PM.

-Derek

 

[vette-kid]

Thanks Derek

 

[RAYJAY]

Jeff,

My confusion is less about how to actually use the PC, but with which products to use and in what order.

as for product to use most of the polishing company's have a series of products to use,

example is poorboys ssr's


you have ssr 3 ssr 2.5 ssr2 ssr 1 higher the number higher the scratch removal

and then you have the pads (lakes colors )

yellow pads high cutting

orange light cutting

white polishing

blacking finish



you have to develop some heat( soften the finish ) in the clear coat to remove the scratches


and as for what products to use on your finish try to stay with one manufacture myself i like poorboys stuff ,tried Adams and some Meg's with mixed results, the Megs worked better than the adams products did

the best way to find out what works for you is to get a hood or trunk lid from the junkyard and practice on that



been wheeling cars for years now ,started when all you need was a wool pad a single speed buffer

jeff

 

[vette-kid]

Thanks for deciphering those a bit. I think Ill be giving Griots system a try.

Derek, can you tell me what size the backing plate is that comes with your orbital, and if other sizes are available? I dont see any on your website, I like the 6' size for doing the main body of the car (seems like it would go a lot quicker), but a smaller pad for tight spots would be useful. Thanks

 

[Griot's Garage]

You're in luck. Our Professional Random Orbital comes with a 6" backing plate. We don't offer any other size options for that machine because properly changing the size of your backing plate would also included needing to change the counterweight as well.

We have found the 6" size is best for polishing the bulk majority of almost any car. If you are looking to get a machine for tighter areas (mirrors, bumpers, etc) we offer a 3" version of our machine.

Check out this link for both machines:
http://www.griotsgarage.com/category/car+care/car+polishing.do

 

[48548]

I have a giots professional Randon Orbital and it works great, I would recommend it to anyone.

 

[vette-kid]

You're in luck. Our Professional Random Orbital comes with a 6" backing plate. We don't offer any other size options for that machine because properly changing the size of your backing plate would also included needing to change the counterweight as well.

We have found the 6" size is best for polishing the bulk majority of almost any car. If you are looking to get a machine for tighter areas (mirrors, bumpers, etc) we offer a 3" version of our machine.

Check out this link for both machines:
http://www.griotsgarage.com/category/car+care/car+polishing.do

Well I was really hoping it was changeable as I really dont want to buy two separate machines

 

[vette-kid]

I have a giots professional Randon Orbital and it works great, I would recommend it to anyone.

Thanks for chiming in. How long have you used it, and do you use the Griots polishes with it as well?

 

[48548]

Yes, I do use there stuff. I have had it for a year, and most of the stuff I get from them is top notch, like the chemicals. The reason I got the polisher from them is because of the lifetime warranty.

 

[vette-kid]

Yes, I do use there stuff. I have had it for a year, and most of the stuff I get from them is top notch, like the chemicals. The reason I got the polisher from them is because of the lifetime warranty.

Thanks...warranty was going to be my next question for the Griot's guys.

 

[48548]

They stand behind everything they sell, and while you pay more, I had a few things warrantied, no questions asked, and shipping out for free with out returning the bad things I had. I would assume a bad polisher might have to be sent in, but some of the other stuff not a problem.

 

[DARK AGE 53]

Can I get a better price for a 7424 than this?

http://www.coastaltool.com/a/port/7424-polisher.htm

Many ( including me ) have bought from them, I've been very happy with my PC that I bought from Costal Tool. A friend of mine just used mine on his Dodge Ram Quad, he was so happy with the results he ordered one for himself. You can't go wrong with one of these units, good luck with your choice.

 

[RAYJAY]

Well I was really hoping it was changeable as I really dont want to buy two separate machines

if you buy the PC you can just change the backing plates its been done and there is no reason to change the counter weights

Thanks...warranty was going to be my next question for the Griot's guys.

and as for warranty think how much are you really going to use it? detailing full time? My PC is going on 4 years old now been used a lot and its just getting broken in ..... same thing for my makita, yes on some detailing a rotary is needed

Jeff


P.S. before you buy please go to detail city and ask what they would buy and use

even on polish, the guys and gals are extremely helpful and extremely knowledgeable

 

[eschoendorff]

Go with teh PC 7424. It has a great track record and a huge following.

 

[RAYJAY]

found a unit like Groits looks like a China knock off of the Pc

http://www.mosay.com/proinfo.asp?pl_id=173


details of unit

Features
750w Machine-made motor
Electronic variable speed from 4000-7000 opm provides greater control of material removal rate
Variable Speed Control Switch maintains controllable pad speed and minimizes gouging during start up
Dual-plane counterbalanced fan reduces user fatigue
Sealed 100% ball-bearing construction
Rotatable dust exhaust port

4000 rpm to to fast for spreading the polish around.

i allways as other use the 1 or 2 setting on the PC unit 1 = about 2500 rpm

 

[JayL]

Many ( including me ) have bought from them, I've been very happy with my PC that I bought from Costal Tool. A friend of mine just used mine on his Dodge Ram Quad, he was so happy with the results he ordered one for himself. You can't go wrong with one of these units, good luck with your choice.

I just ordered a PC 7424 from Coastal Tool. They have a special which includes a 6" Pad and the 6" counter weight for around $119. Their prices are ok and shipping is real quick.

Anybody here have something good to say about Edge Wool and Foam Pads. Their adapter looks good too. I wonder if it's better than using backing pads.

Thanks

 

[RAYJAY]

I just ordered a PC 7424 from Coastal Tool. They have a special which includes a 6" Pad and the 6" counter weight for around $119. Their prices are ok and shipping is real quick.

Anybody here have something good to say about Edge Wool and Foam Pads. Their adapter looks good too. I wonder if it's better than using backing pads.

Thanks

a lot of the detailer like the edge system, IRC there was a problem with them coming off the spindle but i think that problem was solved,

i use the lake pads and the backing plates just easer to get replacement pads for me

Jeff

there is a lot of info on them over on detail city

jeff

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

JayL,

I use edge pads in 4" and 6" sizes on the PC. It's one of the reasons I went with that system. I can pop a 6" pad off and put a 4" pad on is seconds to get in a tight area. Not to mention not having to worry about it being centered...

I can also use both sides of the pad without having to stop and get another one. They just turn around, snap on and go. I also have two Makita rotaries as I use one with Edge pads and the other is setup for 3M wool pads. I used the 3M pads before I bought the Edge system and have a LOT of them still left. By using two, I get the down and dirty heavy work done with wool and swap to the other for a jeweling polish.

 

[Vinko]

Just bought some Meguars (sp?) stuff for detailing. And a few P21S things as well.

Where do you guys get your washing mitts or towels (microfiber or whatever) from?

I figure, if I'm going to do this, I'll do it right. Was using old cut up towels forever. Maybe they're just as good. Had an old sheepskin mitt years ago, but that's been trashed. So time to upgrade. Suggestions?