RivennHewn
Well-known member
X2.
General contractor shooting grades on foundations/ utilities/ parking lots.
Should have added a foot option
Poll: What does a tenth mean when measuring?
- Thread starter pauls_workshop
- Start date
X2.
General contractor shooting grades on foundations/ utilities/ parking lots.
Should have added a foot option
OP
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Interesting Pinaud, so even among machinists different standards for what a "tenth" could mean. All the machinists I've known have always thought of it as 0.0001 inches but that is all from the midwest areas (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan) for me. - Paul
OP
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Monte, let's not even get into how confusing those commas are instead of decimals in the numbers!!!!
I think Germany moved away from SAE long before anyone in the US even thought about doing so... We are way behind here, still. - Paul
OP
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Agreed, it is a flawed poll. I left that out. Think of it like the Iowa Primary polls or New Hampshire! Both had some surprises once the votes were all in. - Paul
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DTE
Well-known member
In my younger days a tenth was 50 horsepower
OutsideMachinist
Well-known member
0.0001'' is what all the machinists I work with refer to as a ''tenth''. Ten thousandths of an inch.
I was touring a suppliers facility a few weeks ago and they were bragging about machines that could hold 25 micron tolerances. That's 25 X 10 ^-6 or .000025". Took me a few minutes to realize they were talking about micro meters. 25 micrometers is about .001". That's a tight tolerance, but not super tight.
Like all machinists, I work with a "tenths" indicator, graduated in .0001" increments. Tenths to me are .0001"
In both cases, the language we use is imprecise. Machine shops are full of stuff like this. Another one from Paul's Starrett thread is rulers vs scales. Every machinist I know calls the things they measure with scales. Think technically, those tools are rules or rulers. Scales are for converting scale drawings to full size units.
Like all machinists, I work with a "tenths" indicator, graduated in .0001" increments. Tenths to me are .0001"
In both cases, the language we use is imprecise. Machine shops are full of stuff like this. Another one from Paul's Starrett thread is rulers vs scales. Every machinist I know calls the things they measure with scales. Think technically, those tools are rules or rulers. Scales are for converting scale drawings to full size units.
monkeyspanners
Well-known member
A tenth would be in inches as its a fraction and inches are 'old money'
For mm i would probably say 'point one' mm or 'nought point one' if i needed to be clearer it was less than one.
For mm i would probably say 'point one' mm or 'nought point one' if i needed to be clearer it was less than one.
bob15
Well-known member
For me and my co-workers, it goes like this:
.100" or hundred thousandths
.010" or ten thousandths
.001" a thousandth
.0001" a tenth
.100" or hundred thousandths
.010" or ten thousandths
.001" a thousandth
.0001" a tenth
KMScott
Well-known member
+1 Here in Colorado too.
Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
I wouldn't call that an old school machinist saying, it's still daily use for current machinists, and it is 0.0001"
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Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
0.0002 to 0.0004" is a very common tolerance for me on a wire edm machine.
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Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
Being a tool & die maker for 30 years, everyone I have always been around has called a tenth as it being .0001 or 1 ten thousandths of an inch shortened to one tenth. And if you look at the tenths on a micrometer, one tenth is .0001
I was always taught that it goes .0001, .0010, .0100, and .1000 or one ten thousandths, one thousandth, ten thousandths, one hundred thousandths
Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
Totally agree. 0.1" is not "one tenth inch" that is "100 thou".
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So first you say he failed, then you spin it around and say he did it on purpose.
Nobody else felt the need to question his motives, sounds to me like YOU're the one who needs some drama.
I thought this was interesting, even if we did get eleventy-six different answers.
Kinda like when I discovered that a "mil" wasn't the same thing as a millimeter. (I still say "Hand me the 10-mil wrench" when working on a buddy's car, though. He knows what I'm talking about.)
Kinda like when I discovered that a "mil" wasn't the same thing as a millimeter. (I still say "Hand me the 10-mil wrench" when working on a buddy's car, though. He knows what I'm talking about.)
OP
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Adam, we should establish what "tenths" mean for the modern metric world and do it right here on GJ first! I vote for tenths of a Micron, or 0.00001 m, since we have to be looking to the future!
- Paul
OP
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
Er, no worries. I think Larry was thinking I'd come out at the end and say there was only one answer, I win, you lose kind of thing. Nothing could be further from the intent, which was to show different fields use different language and have different meanings, even with measurements. I just wanted a fair and good bit of polling before we all get into the results, so they would show this variety in understanding, which they did in spades by about mid day. In a broader context, think of it as bringing GJers together, much like we all need to bring the whole world together, and all its varied cultures and races, to better understand one another through communicating. It is OK for different fields to have specialized language and meaning, but GOOD for us to know that, so we can all understand each other!
- Paullakeroadster
Well-known member
Actually, by your definition, you are incorrect, you used " (the inch mark) in your reply.
Take one inch and divide it by 10.... looks like this 1/10"
That would, by definition, be one tenth of an inch, and that would indeed be 0.100"
What you are discussing is: 1/10 of a thousandth of an inch.
The issue is not fully stating the question as: 1/10 of ____ (fill in the blank)
Neat poll, neat thread, neat discussion.
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Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
I get what you're saying, but the question was what does a tenth mean to a machinist, and to a machinist 0.1" is 100 thou. A tenth is 0.0001".
As for metric , I've never heard anyone use the term tenths for metric measurement.
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lakeroadster
Well-known member
I remember being right out of college (circa 1981) working at my first real engineering job. I was down on the shop floor talking to a machinist who was turning a journal for a bearing and he was talking about tenths.... and I thought to myself, what the hell is he talking about?
As I didn't want to appear to be "the newb"... I waited until I got back to the office, one of my co-workers gave me the 411.
What is crystal clear to some, looks like Flint Michigan tap water to others.
KnurledNut
Well-known member
When measuring up on sunday, it means tithe.
Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
I had basically the same experience, first engineering placement in college was a machine shop. Same thing, trying to understand what a tenth was lol.I remember being right out of college (circa 1981) working at my first real engineering job. I was down on the shop floor talking to a machinist who was turning a journal for a bearing and he was talking about tenths.... and I thought to myself, what the hell is he talking about?
As I didn't want to appear to be "the newb"... I waited until I got back to the office, one of my co-workers gave me the 411.
What is crystal clear to some, looks like Flint Michigan tap water to others.
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lakeroadster
Well-known member
Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
I've learned more from tool makers and machinists than other engineers. So much in fact I decided to become a tool maker as well as an engineer.Perhaps we need to file this under "Machinist Teaching Engineers - 101"
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lakeroadster
Well-known member
Agreed.. I'd add: welders, fabricators & inspectors to the list, including machinists and tool makers. I always felt more "at home" in the shop than in the office.
ibedayank
Well-known member
Yes but that would ruin the poll you see. Old machinists called things "tenths" often. Did not specify of what. Mechanics don't generally do that and may think of things differently. And more modern folks may only think in metric, so would choose a metric answer. I like to think in microns myself on a daily basis. Thus the poll. Will be interesting what the results are, and THEN we can all have the expert discussion on this in detail!!!!
...And ... I will share a story of how I first learned what a tenth meant with the board about 28 years ago and how I was totally wrong about it, even though I wasn't! .... - Paul
and yet main and rod bearing come in... 0.10 to 0.30 oversize pistons 0.10 to o.60 oversize
ibedayank
Well-known member
tool makers and machinists and welders fix what the engineers screw up
Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
I found a poster I wanted for my cnc department, it said "machinists exist because engineers need hero's too". My boss didn't think the general manager would appreciate it.
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OP
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
I remember being right out of college (circa 1981) working at my first real engineering job. I was down on the shop floor talking to a machinist who was turning a journal for a bearing and he was talking about tenths.... and I thought to myself, what the hell is he talking about?
As I didn't want to appear to be "the newb"... I waited until I got back to the office, one of my co-workers gave me the 411.
What is crystal clear to some, looks like Flint Michigan tap water to others.
Me too!! And very well said lakeroadster!!
- Paul
OP
pauls_workshop
Well-known member
I like that poster! And I agree. When younger, I would often run a design by the machinist to be sure the GD&T was correct and the design was fully manufacturable with tolerances specified. New design engineers should always do this. Nothing annoys manufacturing or machinists more than being asked to do the impossible with their equipment OR realizing the manufacturing controls established by a print are based on a poor GD&T scheme. (Like datums not right for how a part is to be manufactured or checked for instance). - Paul
creativecars
Well-known member
Great, now we have ebonics for machinest... and people want to ***** about math.
.1= tenth
.10= ten hundredths
.100= one hundred thousandths
.1000= one thousand ten thousandths
.1= tenth
.10= ten hundredths
.100= one hundred thousandths
.1000= one thousand ten thousandths
Ryanbabz71
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2016
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MikeF2316
Well-known member
Then the English teacher would need a poster commenting on heroes that remove apostrophe S plurals.
Jim Johnstone
Well-known member
Luckily there has never been an English teacher in a machine shop.Then the English teacher would need a poster commenting on heroes that remove apostrophe S plurals.
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davethorik
Well-known member
Almost ashamed to admit this but I have an English degree and I've worked in machine shops for 8 yrs.