Polyaspartic first weeks already performance concerns

[Accel Junky]

So we had our new home's floor professionally prepped and coated with a polyaspartic coating about 2-3 weeks ago. Paid big bucks to "do it right the first time" as far as the garage floor was concerned. Ultimately the color didn't turn out like I expected (likely my own fault for assuming the chosen dark grey wasn't blue) and the texture I expected to be mirror smooth like those F1 garages we all dream of and see in the ads (again maybe I had the wrong expectations).

I'm seeing some issues that I thought polyaspartic wasn't supposed to have and I wanted to run it by you guys and see what you thought.

Firstly, we are getting hot tire pickup:

Next the coating is scuffing and scratching VERY easily. This is just from the cardboard discs that I put under tools and floor jacks to protect the floor (I'm extrapolating about 2 weeks worth of light use to the supposed years its supposed to last):

The coating manufacturer claims (their words, not the installer):

- Excellent Impact & Abrasion resistance
- No Hot-tire pickup
- Light Foot Traffic: 2-4 hours (we did not walk on it until 48 hours later)
- Heavy-Traffic: 24 hours (we did not pull in, park or move stuff in until 72 hours later)

I've contacted the installer to see what he can do but at this point I feel like this is probably less an install issue and more of a product problem.

Thoughts? And for sh**ts and giggles, here's a picture of how the texture really changes throughout the floor.

Gloosy...smooth-ish:

And in other parts looks like spray paint:

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Is that glare I see on the "Gloosy...smooth-ish" photo? Or bare concrete?

 

[Accel Junky]

Is that glare I see on the "Gloosy...smooth-ish" photo? Or bare concrete?

That's just the glare of the overhead lighting. The bare concrete in the front/bottom of the photo is where the floor ends and meets the driveway.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

From my novice way of thinking, the sheen issue strikes me more as an installer issue - build up and coverage. What products did your installer use?

 

[Jim B]

That doesn't look like hot tire pick up. It looks like a dulling of the gloss where the tires sat overnight. I have the same thing with my polyurethane top coat. I don't think you're going to get away from that. If I park in the garage for more than a few hours I put polycarbonate squares under my tires. Carpet tiles would work well also.

From your pictures the "spray paint" areas looks like too thin on the coverage or over rolled (was drying before rolling was finished).

 

[Accel Junky]

That doesn't look like hot tire pick up. It looks like a dulling of the gloss where the tires sat overnight. I have the same thing with my polyurethane top coat. I don't think you're going to get away from that. If I park in the garage for more than a few hours I put polycarbonate squares under my tires. Carpet tiles would work well also.

From your pictures the "spray paint" areas looks like too thin on the coverage or over rolled (was drying before rolling was finished).

I think that is crazy that the manufacturer would claim no hot tire pickup but leave the substance fully susceptible to a visual imprint from the tire. It might as well be pickup by how obvious it looks. The floor is going to quickly look terrible if the glossiness just goes away everywhere a tire touches. We had a $50 SW H&C stain on our old garage floor and it never showed any evidence of a tire sitting on it (granted it wasn't glossy per se).

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Accel Junky - I bet the tire mark is tire residue. I have read on TGJ where others have used simple green to remove it. It's not hot tire pick up. That's when the hot tire "bonds" to the floor coating and peels the coating up from the concrete. This is the result of poor bond between the coating and concrete.


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[Accel Junky]

Accel Junky - I bet the tire mark is tire residue. I have read on TGJ where others have used simple green to remove it. It's not hot tire pick up. That's when the hot tire "bonds" to the floor coating and peels the coating up.


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I have tried soaking one of the marks in hot water with degreasing soap and then proceeded to scrub with a soft towel with no results. I then tried a bristle brush which did nothing either other than start to make the surrounding glossy areas start to dull slightly (hence the crappy abrasive resistance). When I run my finger nail over the marks I can tell a faint change in level. It would seem to me that perhaps the tire is pulling up the top bit of the coating and not the whole layer.

 

[rsanter]

I don't know but I suspect that if it was epoxy it may not have been mixed properly ( ratio wrong or not thoroughly mixed) could be your problem

If I paid big bucks I would be disappointed.

Bob

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Accel Junky - if you're seeing an indent then I'm thinking either the material is being picked up as you suggest or compressed down. Perhaps a pro will chime in later tonight.


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[Jsf721]

Sorry for your aggravation. Did they grind the floor to get good adhesion? I had my floor epoxied and then cleared without issue. Looks like an installation issue to me because the paint film should be thick enough to hide some of the imperfections. When they applied my base color coat it was poured on and squeegeed into place, then back rolled. It was super shiny. they 10 hours later it was cleared and I moved the stuff back in and parked my car on it 3 days later.

Not issues to date, and my car come home hot and driven.

Search my user name and you will find my install from this past summer

 

[floorcoatingsguru]

This isn't hot tire pickup. The coating isn't lifting off the substrate. It looks like plasticizer migration or possibly printing.

 

[JimVonBaden]

Looks like a **** job in every direction to me!

Sorry man, it looks like you got took!

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

Maybe it would help to take more photos to give a fuller scope of space and the job.

 

[thegarageguy]

May be a shabby job but tough to really tell from close ups. Just remember, like epoxy, there are many different polyaspartic formulations today and they aren't all created equal.

 

[Cruzin90]

May be a shabby job but tough to really tell from close ups. Just remember, like epoxy, there are many different polyaspartic formulations today and they aren't all created equal.

Well, that's true to a degree, but polyaspartics (PAP) are not as diversified as epoxy products. Epoxies can have many types of hardeners, that's not the case with PAP, there's only one hardener (isocyanate). PAP may contain a small amount of solvents while others are 100% solvents. Other than that, there's not that much difference.

How long did the PAP cure before you put a car on it? You should not get hot tire marks, the temperature tolerance is high enough so that it should not happen. It should not scratch very easily. Perhaps the installer did not mix the resin and iso correctly. Did the installer add a solvent themselves?

 

[Accel Junky]

Well, that's true to a degree, but polyaspartics (PAP) are not as diversified as epoxy products. Epoxies can have many types of hardeners, that's not the case with PAP, there's only one hardener (isocyanate). PAP may contain a small amount of solvents while others are 100% solvents. Other than that, there's not that much difference.

How long did the PAP cure before you put a car on it? You should not get hot tire marks, the temperature tolerance is high enough so that it should not happen. It should not scratch very easily. Perhaps the installer did not mix the resin and iso correctly. Did the installer add a solvent themselves?

Cars were not parked on it for something like 72 hours. We definitely played it safe. The tire markings are all over the place...not the first place we parked necessarily. No idea on the mix. I didn't ask about that but supposedly the installer is going to come look at it this week.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Accel:

Without looking at it in person, it might pay off to have him scuff the entire floor and re-coat using a urethane topcoat.

It looks like the PAP may have gotten away from him.

A pigmented urethane does not have the turnaround time that the PAP does but it will settle out better without any undulation, more even.

Installers like Fernando and Cruzin90 have been working with PAP a long time. They know how to roll it and when to stop rolling it.

Ultimately, your installer and the manufacturer will have to make that call but it might be an option worth mentioning to them.

 

[thegarageguy]

Well, that's true to a degree, but polyaspartics (PAP) are not as diversified as epoxy products. Epoxies can have many types of hardeners, that's not the case with PAP, there's only one hardener (isocyanate). PAP may contain a small amount of solvents while others are 100% solvents. Other than that, there's not that much difference.

I don't claim to be a chemist but i do know that I've used many different manufacturer's polyaspartics since 2003 and even helped a couple Company's R&D. I believe and have found them all to have a different range of ease of use and performance.

As Legacy stated, it's most likely application error. Did you get any referrals or see any of the Company's past jobs? Did you read or ask for any product data sheets of the polyaspartic materials he was using? Did you call the manufacturer he was suggesting to use and ask if he is a trained and certified installer?

Btw, you said you paid "big bucks" from a pro installer...since you mentioned it, what do you consider big bucks? What did you pay if you don't mind me asking? This may help us figure out if you indeed hire a professional or fly by night contractor.

 

[Accel Junky]

An update:

I had the installer come out and take a look. He said he had never seen this before so he contacted the manufacturer. At first they tried to put the blame on me accusing me of having pulled in too early (laughable as we waited a conservative length of time and the tire printing has shown up in many places well after the initial use of the floor) and then eventually they offered to supply him with new materials (initially the installer wanted me to pay for more materials) to add another coat then do the flakes this time. The installer offered me a choice of a small token refund ($750) or his free labor to apply another coat, add the flakes, and then clear on top of that.

Ultimately, I decided that this polyaspartic was never going to perform no matter how many times they try to re-do it (especially considering the manufacturer claims additional coats should only be added up to 36 hours...let alone 1-2 months later) so I opted for the token partial refund. I'm waiting on that currently, but I just thought it would be a futile effort and a major inconvenience to try the same material again, same installer again with all my stuff moved in.

Once we have the money, I'm going to just get the Racedeck and call it a day. By that time I will have put close to $6k into the floor of this thing...really da** depressing! The moral of the story is that I should've gone and looked at other projects where this polyaspartic was used to see what it looked like and how it held up. For those that asked, we paid a hair under $4k for the floor.

 

[JohnX14]

Ouch! Sorry to read about this experience. Makes me glad I ordered Racedeck earlier this week. (I ordered based on the threads I've read here, and didn't give it a whole lot more consideration)

 

[thegarageguy]

Moral of the story is whenever hiring a contractor, check references, see actual jobs in person and see if any manufacturers recommend them to install their products.

I have epoxy-polyurethane and polyaspartic floors down for years without issues. And as a side note, we've had guys goof and manufacturers give us bad **** before but as a professional businessman, we should take it in the chin and take care of our clients or at least put the effort in to make good on a job.

Sorry for your experience. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.