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Polyaspartic Floor gone wrong?

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GT604

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Hi All.

This forum has been a great source of information over the last couple of weeks for our Polyaspartic Flooring experience, so I thought I would share what's going on and see if any of the members here have input on what I should be doing and how I should approach this.

We just finished renovating our home (a year long process that would allow us to move from a condo to a house), and a coated garage floor was one of my bucket list items. We pulled the trigger on a local contractor with a good reputation to put in a Polyaspartic flake floor, which was completed in one day, 3 weeks ago. We were told the floor should cure enough for foot traffic at 24 hours, and at 4 days it should be 95% cured with the ability to resume typical vehicle traffic and place stationary objects like shelving units on the floor. We were also told the first few days would have non-toxic off-gassing, but by day 4 it should be 95% reduced. They also had to add a moisture barrier after testing the concrete prior to installing the floor.

We delayed moving in for an extra week to allow the floor time to cure. When we moved in after 7 days it was quite odorous. I spoke with the company that did the install and they said it shouldn't smell. They sent someone to look at it and they suggested that maybe it was applied a little thick, and that heat and time would allow it to cure. I noted we have a baby in the house, and the smell is worrisome and I wanted to understand just how 'non-toxic' this floor is. They suggested we leave the house. We have since moved back into our sparsely furnished condo given that all our belongings are now in the house.

I had the GC for our renovation bring out some 240v heaters and fans, and we have let the garage ventilate and stay warm for about a week - temps ranging from 20c to 28c, with relative humidity of 45%. Temps were lower during install, and humidity was high due to rain in the surrounding days.

The first day of heating produced a small change, but no additional change has occurred since. It still smells. On top of that, I find if I take a key, or the dull head of a screw, and push it into the floor it will leave indents in the coating.

The flooring company has never seen this before and believes it just needs more time. The vendor of the coating (a large company) says the same. However, with everything I have read on the forum, it sounds like one of two problems may be the culprit:
- A). The topcoat mix was off, which is why its soft enough for me to indent it three weeks later (likely also meaning it will never cure)
- B). The top coat cured quickly, not allowing the below coats to cure - either due to humidity or the contractor not waiting long enough between coats

I don't want to wait an indeterminate amount of time for this floor to cure - especially without knowing if it ever will. The only thing that is stopping us from living in that house today is this floor.

I am sure we could remove the floor and start again, but I am not sure if that is a better option than waiting. I am not keen on kicking up a bunch of chemical and concrete dust in the process.

I took the time to call a few other local Polyaspartic floor contractors - all of them seem to believe its a mixing error since the top coat should be very hard at this point, and the smell should be gone. One suggested adding another top coat, which I don't love (sealing in a coating that is not curing properly won't fix the issue).

My chief concern at this point is the health of my family - and the secondary concern is our ability to move into our currently vacant dream home.

If any forum members have any suggestions or insights to share, I would appreciate your input.

Thanks!
 
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rjacobs

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There are many many threads exactly like this...

The fix is to grind the coating off and start over.

This is a huge reason why I really dislike "single day install" type vendors... No way you are getting the floor ground, cleaned and 2+ coats of product put down in an 8 hour day and not have issues... One thread a guy had his floor acid washed same day they put down 2 layers of product and had lots of bubbles...yea because the concrete was full of water when the put down the first layer...

grind it off and start over...

My floor took 2 solid days of work.
 
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GT604

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Interestingly, I met with the supplier of the coating, and the company that did the install on site yesterday. They are saying the coating seems to be cured correctly, no additional solvents were added to thin it out, but it was applied thick (especially around the edges). They are still on the page that it will take time for everything to outgas. They are also talking about how bad an idea it would be to grind and start over - citing the fact that it would kick up a bunch of silica and chemical dust and that would be worse.

I really want to believe that time will work, but I also don't want to wait for a year to find out. I like the look of the product, but the lingering odor is no bueno.

88Carerra (on this forum) noted a zero VOC topcoat seemed to fix his issue. I feel like that would just be putting lipstick on a pig, and not sure if that would just be trapping all the **** underneath.
 

FJ4FUN

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A few thoughts:
*There is a chance that it will eventually fully cure, but if it still hasn't after +/-4 weeks the chances are slim and getting slimmer.
*If you can't/don't want to wait you're only option is to grind it off and start over. You noted this was a flake floor so IF the initial receiver coat cured correctly you may not need to go to concrete but the flakes will complicate this so while you may not need to go to concrete you will need another receiver coat/flakes and topcoat.
*The talk about the hazards of grinding are an excuse to avoid it and, quite frankly, start to erode my confidence in the quality of the applicator.
*DO NOT apply an additional topcoat to an improperly cured prior coat..... EVER.
*Like everything else in life, there are pro's / con's to every coating type. The polyurea and polyaspartic floors do allow for a much simplified application and quicker return-to-service schedule and are typically more economical to apply when done by a contractor because of that. For the majority of residential applications they perform just fine, but they do have their downsides and if applied outside of recommended temp/humidity range, applied too thick, or improperly thinned, the high VOC content will make life miserable.

Best of luck to you, good news is that a proper corrective action should only take one day to apply and another four to fully cure.... Have them grind it and start over.
 
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GT604

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Thanks for the responses all.

The grind and start over was discussed - they said they would do the main part of the floor but leave the stem walls alone. In your opinion, force them to grind the stem walls too?
 

FJ4FUN

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If the stem walls are not hard, fully cured then they will have to be ground as well. Hopefully that will be obvious and "force" will not be required...
 

Imatk

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322
This is why when I did my floor at my new house I did it myself. "Professional" floor guys really screwed up my last floor and it was a fight to get them to fix it... and even then it was never fixed. Large sheets of flooring coming away after a year or so.

Somehow I managed to do mine correctly... and I'm not a pro... go figure... I just followed the instructions.

But of course I wasn't looking to get in and out as quickly as possible or thin mixtures so I could do more floors with less product.
 

dandan111

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Is the floor still soft? Maybe the weather is slowing the drying. My floor smelled pretty bad for about a week or two.
I left the door up a little to help air it out. I was surprised how gassy it was.
 
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GT604

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so
Is the floor still soft? Maybe the weather is slowing the drying. My floor smelled pretty bad for about a week or two.
I left the door up a little to help air it out. I was surprised how gassy it was.
I will post a lengthy update shortly, however, a question for you… did it still have a mild odour even after airing it out for a week or two?
 
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GT604

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It's been a week since my original post, and much has happened in that time frame (details below). With that said, I think I need a couple of questions answered that will guide the decision from here, and hopefully y'all can help.

Updates and Info
Over the last week, I met with the flooring contractor on site, along with my GC, and the coating supplier representative. Here is what they said:
- The floor is potentially still curing (3.5 weeks later), but it looks good and as it should. Admittedly this is a long cure time.
- The odor is similar to what they would expect at the 4-day mark, it is not that strong and is a nuisance odor at this point. Using the garage like normal will help the odor dissipate faster (a bit of a catch 22 since I don't want to be in there while it still has a smell). They likened it to a "new car smell" and said it would go away in time.
- They have three versions of the Polyaspartic that cure at different rates - Fast, Medium, and Slow. They used medium on my floor.
- It was poured thicker than it should have been, and there is pooling in the corners and at the bottom of the curb walls that may have contributed to the extended cure time. In addition, humidity and temperature may have played a role.

The flooring contractor sent me to two of their other sites (garages in other homes). The first was poured the day before and smelled a lot like mine. The second was poured at the same time as mine, and had no odor at all.

My GC also arranged a competitor who installs the exact same product to come out to the site and meet me to look at the floor. The competitor said it looks decent, not a great installation. He said it would be the nuclear option to tear it out and redo the floor, and he would give it more time to finish curing. He said the 'hardness' was within tolerable specs, although it did give him pause when we could make indents. I really liked this guy - he spent an hour with me, for no benefit of his own.

My Perspective
Honestly, the floor looks great. I keep hoping to show up one day and the smell is just gone, and the floor is super hard. Admittedly, over the last couple of weeks, the smell is dissipating (albeit slowly). My wife notices a difference, and is getting more comfortable with it. If I knew that the thing would finish curing and be good to go in the next couple of weeks, I would be fine leaving it and giving it that time.

We have done a lot to help this process along. 10 days of heat and ventilation. I bought a carbon air filter system that I ran for three days (no effect on odor). A couple of days ago I went into the garage and washed it with diluted simple green and a soft brush, vacuumed off all the remaining dust that was sitting on ledges, and rinsed everything thoroughly. I also ran air movers for a few days to create circulation (one pulling fresh air in, and the other moving air out). I picked up VOC monitors (airthings) to try and understand if the odor was indeed bad. The readings have come down to normal levels, if a little high. Interestingly, the readings shot up after using simple green (went down a day later), and shot up again when I cut the grass (went down a few hours later).

My Questions
If I knew the answers to these questions, I think I could make a firm decision. Perhaps you can help.
1). Could this floor still be curing if poured too thick?
2). On a 'new' Polyaspartic floor, can an indent be made with a fingernail or key for a while? When does it reach full hardness?
3). Is some odor expected for a while? Does it really go to zero odor after a few days, or is there a little something there for a while afterwards?

If the situation sounds normal, but extended for some reason, I would be fine to give it a bit more time as opposed to starting all over. It's tough to take everyone's word for it (even the contractor that has nothing to do with it).

Images of the floor attached, along with a video of the fingernail impression.
Google Drive Link - Video of Fingernail Impression
 

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Armorpoxy

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This sounds like a grind and remove. In our experience if the floor is not satisfactory in a week or so, it's full redo.
 

dandan111

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Yes we definitely had a smell for awhile. I would give it a little longer. It’s got to set up though.
 

Imatk

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322
My floor did not smell after... about a week maybe?

And was never able to push and indent into it.

I live in Texas, it's about as hot and humid as you can get so I'm not really buying the... weather excuse.

Also from your pictures, and it's kind of difficult to tell all the time... but it looks like they used one coat of clear since your flakes are kind of sticking upward.

Either that or they didn't scrape it correctly... but my guess is only one coat and or both.

So if it's only one coat and it's having issues curing... that's nothing to do with "thickness"
 

mrbill55

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Greenville, SC
It's been a week since my original post, and much has happened in that time frame (details below). With that said, I think I need a couple of questions answered that will guide the decision from here, and hopefully y'all can help.

Updates and Info
Over the last week, I met with the flooring contractor on site, along with my GC, and the coating supplier representative. Here is what they said:
- The floor is potentially still curing (3.5 weeks later), but it looks good and as it should. Admittedly this is a long cure time.
- The odor is similar to what they would expect at the 4-day mark, it is not that strong and is a nuisance odor at this point. Using the garage like normal will help the odor dissipate faster (a bit of a catch 22 since I don't want to be in there while it still has a smell). They likened it to a "new car smell" and said it would go away in time.
- They have three versions of the Polyaspartic that cure at different rates - Fast, Medium, and Slow. They used medium on my floor.
- It was poured thicker than it should have been, and there is pooling in the corners and at the bottom of the curb walls that may have contributed to the extended cure time. In addition, humidity and temperature may have played a role.

The flooring contractor sent me to two of their other sites (garages in other homes). The first was poured the day before and smelled a lot like mine. The second was poured at the same time as mine, and had no odor at all.

My GC also arranged a competitor who installs the exact same product to come out to the site and meet me to look at the floor. The competitor said it looks decent, not a great installation. He said it would be the nuclear option to tear it out and redo the floor, and he would give it more time to finish curing. He said the 'hardness' was within tolerable specs, although it did give him pause when we could make indents. I really liked this guy - he spent an hour with me, for no benefit of his own.

My Perspective
Honestly, the floor looks great. I keep hoping to show up one day and the smell is just gone, and the floor is super hard. Admittedly, over the last couple of weeks, the smell is dissipating (albeit slowly). My wife notices a difference, and is getting more comfortable with it. If I knew that the thing would finish curing and be good to go in the next couple of weeks, I would be fine leaving it and giving it that time.

We have done a lot to help this process along. 10 days of heat and ventilation. I bought a carbon air filter system that I ran for three days (no effect on odor). A couple of days ago I went into the garage and washed it with diluted simple green and a soft brush, vacuumed off all the remaining dust that was sitting on ledges, and rinsed everything thoroughly. I also ran air movers for a few days to create circulation (one pulling fresh air in, and the other moving air out). I picked up VOC monitors (airthings) to try and understand if the odor was indeed bad. The readings have come down to normal levels, if a little high. Interestingly, the readings shot up after using simple green (went down a day later), and shot up again when I cut the grass (went down a few hours later).

My Questions
If I knew the answers to these questions, I think I could make a firm decision. Perhaps you can help.
1). Could this floor still be curing if poured too thick?
2). On a 'new' Polyaspartic floor, can an indent be made with a fingernail or key for a while? When does it reach full hardness?
3). Is some odor expected for a while? Does it really go to zero odor after a few days, or is there a little something there for a while afterwards?

If the situation sounds normal, but extended for some reason, I would be fine to give it a bit more time as opposed to starting all over. It's tough to take everyone's word for it (even the contractor that has nothing to do with it).

Images of the floor attached, along with a video of the fingernail impression.
Google Drive Link - Video of Fingernail Impression
Mine (8 month old new pour and 56 year old pour) out-gassed for a month, with a light lingering smell for another month after that. Leaving doors and windows open assisted in the smell dissipating, floor itself was fully cured in less than 5 days, we did not move anything in for a full 10 days, tested by placing my truck and trailer inside after a 10 mile drive (hot tires), no issues, moved all the rest of the cars and such in the next day.

Bill S.
 
OP
G

GT604

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I am in Vancouver Canada, so really it’s been cold and humid. They had to do a moisture barrier on the floor Prior to application.

And yea, they tell me it’s a 3 part job… base coat, flakes, top coat.
 
OP
G

GT604

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Mine (8 month old new pour and 56 year old pour) out-gassed for a month, with a light lingering smell for another month after that. Leaving doors and windows open assisted in the smell dissipating, floor itself was fully cured in less than 5 days, we did not move anything in for a full 10 days, tested by placing my truck and trailer inside after a 10 mile drive (hot tires), no issues, moved all the rest of the cars and such in the next day.

Bill S.

Thanks Bill, that’s comforting to know. I will go park a car in there tonight (briefly) after the highway home and see what happens.
 

improperyour

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Nov 16, 2023
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Don't want to pile on here -- but that curb application looks terrible. Is the floor even smooth? It looks like those flakes would catch stuff like crazy (but perhaps that's only the curb, which doesn't excuse it).
 
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KYCountryboy

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This sounds like a grind and remove. In our experience if the floor is not satisfactory in a week or so, it's full redo.
I agree. While polyaspartic applied more thick does take longer to cure, we're talking days not weeks. Full grind & removal. If they're worried about dust what did they do for dust containment the first time around or did they not grind?
 
OP
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GT604

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Hello all. Sorry for the delay in my response… I tried to take a break and just live and little and hope that things got better over time. Alas, no further improvements in the odor, and if anything it has gotten worse as the weather has warmed up.

My installer does not want to redo the floor - as far as they are concerned, the floor is fine, it just smells. This is not something explicitly covered in their warranty documentation so they are unwilling to do anything unless the floor fails.

I haven’t had the garage door fully closed in months except for “testing”. Each time I close it for an hour, the smell goes up, along with the VOCs (Airthings wave mini in garage).

My wife and I made the decision today to press on with replacing the coating. The only question mark left is paint. We had the garage painted a few days before install, so I am wondering if the paint just absorbed a bunch of the offgassing. I don’t want to replace the floor and have the same issue, but I suppose I could just repaint either way.

To try and confirm, I will do the smell test with a taped down sheet of plastic on both the floor and the walls to see if the concentration of the door is focused on the floor.

And yes, the stem walls are not great, they are very rough, but the main floor is exactly the right texture it should be.

Moot point if it all stinks anyways.
 

KYCountryboy

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I sincerely hope you have not fully paid for this. Polyaspartic is generally a good top coat for flaked garage floors. There are thousands of successful projects out there. Humidity and temperature of both the floor surface and the ambient air do affect the curing process. Most Polyaspartics claim a full cure time of 7 days.

Your saga screams loudly of a poor mix, or perhaps out of date material. Methinks the latter is more likely -although getting the contractor to admit it is not likely. Usually a poor mixture would be constrained to just part of the floor and not the whole thing, so if you can indent the product in multiple places that leans me towards out of date product. Especially if you can STILL do it. Thicker Polyaspartic does indeed normally take a bit longer to cure, but normally a couple days not weeks. You may need to start legal action if the applicator is not willing to make it right. You should download all the technical information you can find on the product from the manufacturer. Cure times are stated there as well as proper application procedures and they will ring true in your favor if necessary.

Tony
 
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GT604

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Update:

I sent a rather lengthy and legal-sounding email to the contractor, and they have agreed on a full refund (since I did not want to go through them again for the re-do).

I have since spoken to two new contractors about grinding the floor up and replacing with a new one. Looking for some advice on which route to choose.

Contractor "A" uses Sikafloor 510. They stated they would come out and grind up the main surface of the floor but leave the stem/curb walls as they are. They also stated that coating over the existing stuff on the curb walls would "seal in" whatever odor they might still have. The removal and reapplication of a new product would take 1 day. I have seen this contractors work as one of my friends used this contractor for their garage.

Contractor "B" uses the same product as my current (smelly) garage as a polyaspartic topcoat with an epoxy base coat. This is Rhino Linings Fastfloor. They said they would grind the main floor and the stem walls on one day, apply the epoxy base and flak on the next day, and come back a third day to do the polyaspartic top coat.

Pricing is very similar on both options. Option B seems like the way to go, but I have concerns around the same product being used given my bad experience. Either option would result in a new application around the first week of September.

G
 

KYCountryboy

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Presuming contractor B has a good reputation, methinks you're ok with the same product -after all didn't the first guys show you a couple projects that did not stink? While Rhino Linings is not my coating of choice, Rhino is certainly a reputable company. I don't like the approach contractor A suggested. They're just trying to get out of the labor required to remove coating on a vertical surface which is indeed labor intensive. For optimal results, it ALL needs to come off.

Tony
 

rjacobs

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Contractor "B" uses the same product as my current (smelly) garage as a polyaspartic topcoat with an epoxy base coat. This is Rhino Linings Fastfloor. They said they would grind the main floor and the stem walls on one day, apply the epoxy base and flak on the next day, and come back a third day to do the polyaspartic top coat.

This is the way your floor should have been done the first time...

You cant short cut putting these products down as you have found out.

NOW if you are comfortable with the same product or not is a different discussion.
 

P0234

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Go take a look at the contractors very recent installs, a week or so old. See if those still smell to you.
 

kngelv

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I would pay someone to grid the floor and that is it for now. You need to see if any of those VOC's got sucked into your paint and drywall. Putting the same product on right now is just asking for trouble. You might have to remove that drywall and replace it. It has been two months. IMHO it would be foolish to put anything down on that floor right now.... especially the exact same product.

James
 
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GT604

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I would pay someone to grid the floor and that is it for now. You need to see if any of those VOC's got sucked into your paint and drywall. Putting the same product on right now is just asking for trouble. You might have to remove that drywall and replace it. It has been two months. IMHO it would be foolish to put anything down on that floor right now.... especially the exact same product.

James
 
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GT604

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Contractor B suggested we grind and wait a couple of days to see if it resolves the smell. This is something I certainly agree with doing. My intent is to move the family out for about a week and get the process done. Process being…

1). Day 1 - Grind out current floor
2). Wait 2-3 days to assess odor.
3). Day 4 - apply new epoxy base coat and flake (assuming smell is resolved).
4). Day 5 - apply new Polyaspartic top coat
5). Wait 2-4 days for the floor to cure
6). Back to normal

I could also look at a grind, wait, and then finish the floor with something else. I am not sure what else to look at though. Any suggestions are appreciated.
 

DGersic

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I could also look at a grind, wait, and then finish the floor with something else. I am not sure what else to look at though. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Given the experience you’ve had so far, I’d grind it off down to bare concrete all the way around. I’d consider replacing the drywall too, but do the smell test first. Then either leave it as bare concrete, or do something like racedeck.
 

FJ4FUN

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Have them thoroughly grind off every square inch, shake their hands when they leave then set aside a weekend to DIY apply this:
Partial Flake Floor
or this:
Chip Floor
Then move on with your life and ENJOY your freshly renovated home!
 

Cairo94507

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Man oh man, do I feel sorry for the OP; I would have no regrets in having that floor removed and going with contractor B, based upon his work schedule. Good luck to the OP.

We just poured our 1600 sq. ft. garage floor on Tuesday. 4300 PSI, 6-7" thick, rebar on 12" centers. Power hard-trowled and saw cut for expansion joints. I would love to do a coating but every coated floor I have ever seen in my lifetime, has failed. I did a porcelain tile floor in my last garage, but this garage is more of a working garage. I think we are just going to have it polished to make it as smooth as possible and call it a floor.
 

FJ4FUN

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Man oh man, do I feel sorry for the OP; I would have no regrets in having that floor removed and going with contractor B, based upon his work schedule. Good luck to the OP.

We just poured our 1600 sq. ft. garage floor on Tuesday. 4300 PSI, 6-7" thick, rebar on 12" centers. Power hard-trowled and saw cut for expansion joints. I would love to do a coating but every coated floor I have ever seen in my lifetime, has failed. I did a porcelain tile floor in my last garage, but this garage is more of a working garage. I think we are just going to have it polished to make it as smooth as possible and call it a floor.
Well, if you'd like to change that record gimme a call.... Love Auburn CA BTW.... ;)
 

P0234

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We just poured our 1600 sq. ft. garage floor on Tuesday. 4300 PSI, 6-7" thick, rebar on 12" centers. Power hard-trowled and saw cut for expansion joints. I would love to do a coating but every coated floor I have ever seen in my lifetime, has failed. I did a porcelain tile floor in my last garage, but this garage is more of a working garage. I think we are just going to have it polished to make it as smooth as possible and call it a floor.

Failed is a broad term and you don't really give yourself any credibility when you say that. You took a few minutes to describe your floor, which had nothing to do with the OP's issue then you just say all floors fail without anything more than that? LOL at best.

So many of us have floors that have lasted. I used a consumer level product and got almost 10 years out of it before I moved. My current floor is 2 years old and looks as good as the day it was put down.
 
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GT604

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So here’s the latest update on the floor.

It’s gone! Friday they ground out the floor, stem walls and all. I did all the prep I could - put poly on everything attached to the wall, covered any small hole, turned off the hvac system and HRV, all to limit any chemical dust travel.

The smell definitely increased when they were grinding (I could smell it 30ft away when I stopped by to check in). I believe this was somewhat due to the coating getting exposed, as well as the heat generated by the grinder. My VOC meter also spiked when they finished to its highest level ever.

New contractor recommended we do a 100% solids epoxy instead of the PA since we had time and didn’t require a quick return to service. We got the first coat and flake on the following day. 12 hours later a second coat. 18 hours later the final top coat. It’s been about 2.5 days since the floor was finished and I have let it ventilate by leaving the garage door about 1/3rd open the entire time. Application temps ranged from 70f-80f. No rain until today. Basically optimum conditions.

The odor of the Polyaspartic is gone. The epoxy smell is extremely mild already, and it seems on track to go away completely at full cure (7 days).

The floor looks way better. The stem walls aren’t rough. I even prefer the flake colouring this time around.

I had read a post from someone who had a similar problem to me and waited 9 months to get the floor removed. Their advice was “don’t wait 9 months to get the floor out”. I waited 4 months, hoping this would get better with time. I wish I had done this sooner. A bad floor is a bad floor.

Appreciate all the help and support from this forum.
 

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mepstein

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
1,280
Glad you got it fixed
I only hire contractors that get paid when the job is done and I’m satisfied. My shop only collects money when we complete the job and the customer is happy so I expect the same. If they don’t want to agree to those terms, I don’t hire them for the job.
 

mike93lx

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
37,374
Location
Richmond, VA
Glad you got it all fixed up.

I dont think I would have had the patience to go back with another coating and would have tiled instead
 
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