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POLYPROPYLENE (PP) Vs POLYVINYL CHLORIDE (PVC).

RaceDeck1

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There have been many posts about the differences in modular flooring products and the materials they are made from. I recieved this 'explaination' from one our raw material suppliers (the largest supplier of plastics worldwide). It is probably the best 'easy to understand 'explainations I have read.
To be fair and for the record, RaceDeck is made from Polypropylene (PP) . We do manufacture a vynil product called DURAGRID that is not sold for the garage industry, as we have known for sometime this information. There are 100's of more scientific reports out there as well.

Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) Vs. Polypropylene (PP) A comparison and some environmental issues
There are significant intrinsic differences between polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and polypropylene (PP) .
Polypropylene is one of the most neutral plastics, containing only two elements: carbon (C) and hydrogen (H).
PVC by comparison contains about 30% by weight, of the element Chlorine (Cl) in its basic structure. It is well documented that chlorine, like all halogens, is a dangerous substance in the environment.
When PVC is incinerated or present in accidental fires it produces toxic byproducts such as dioxins, chlorocarbons and hydrochloric acid. Complete combustion of PP, on the other hand, will generate only carbon dioxide and water.
PVC is intrinsically heat unstable and can even decompose during processing. PP is much more tolerant to heat; even under extreme conditions it will only decompose to lower molecular weight paraffins, which are elementally compatible with the base material.
Not only is PVC inherently dangerous in its basic form, but it also needs a large amount of lead to stabilise it. Lead is highly toxic both during the life cycle of a product and after its disposal. This is why there is neither lead nor other heavy metals used in the manufacture of PP sheet.
Polypropylene sheet is manufactured from propylene monomer, a relatively safe gas, which is a waste byproduct of the petroleum industry that used to be burned off into the atmosphere contributing to greenhouse gas emissions. As a consequence, the more polypropylene used in products helps in reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
Contrariwise, the monomer unit, which forms the building blocks of PVC, is very toxic. Stringent guidelines are in place for its proper handling as it is highly dangerous to transport and store. There have been numerous studies of the negative health effects on workers exposed to PVC monomer.
A further problem with flexible PVC is that the flexibility and softness must be induced by the addition of a large amount of plasticisers, usually phthalates, at concentrations of 30 - 50%. These phthalates may have carcinogenic properties or affect endocrinic activity in humans. They do this by mimicking the female hormone oestrogen, causing biological imbalances in humans as well as other species.
These plasticisers are mobile by nature, hence migratory. They leach out into the environment during long-term storage and into soil and aquifers after disposal. The 'mist', which accumulates on windscreens of cars containing PVC trim, is evidence of plasticiser migration. Other evidence of this instability may be seen where the print from a document migrates onto the PVC binder or file in which the document is stored.
It is impossible for these effects to occur in relation to polypropylene. The soft blend materials get their softness and flexibility from the actual molecular structure of the material, which is stable, rather than from any migratory additive.
Polypropylene is 100% recyclable .. PVC is not recyclable to the same extent, firstly because of its intrinsic chemical composition and also because of the additives it contains.
In summary, there is clear evidence that PP is a safer, non-toxic and environmentally friendly alternative to the obsolescent technologies that gave us plastics such as PVC.
 
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AlphaGarage

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Quite interesting.

Way back in the late 1970s, McDonalds was rumored to use fake onions on their various Burgers -- and the fake onions were supposedly made from flavored polypropylene. Like many urban myths, this was undoubtedly wrong... I hope.

Most likely false indeed. But just in case there's a shred of truth to the rumor I'm going to hunt down some polypropylene flavoring 'cause I loved those onion rings!

And thanks for that info on PP vs PVC - good stuff to know!
 

Allen Blakey

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Hi. I’m with the Vinyl Institute (USA), just so you know where I’m coming from. There are some significant errors in the piece by Race Deck 1:
• Burning PP “will generate only carbon dioxin and water.” According to the “Emergency Action Guide for Fires in Plastics Storage” (Canadian Plastics Industry Association), combustion of polypropylene creates acrolein and carbon monoxide as well as carbon dioxide. Acrolein is toxic and can cause severe lung and skin damage. CO, of course, is produced by anything that burns and is the chemical most responsible for fatalities in building fires.
• “Chlorine, like all halogens, is a dangerous substance.” Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) is quite different from free chlorine. PVC is known for its stability and has been used safely for decades in myriad products. For example, PVC is the material of choice for blood bags and medical tubing, as well as certain kinds of food packaging, all regulated for safety by FDA.
• “PVC is intrinsically heat unstable.” PVC is the material of choice for insulating building wire and cable, one of the few materials able to meet the National Electrical Code even in plenum locations. CPVC (PVC with extra chlorine) the alternative of choice to copper for fire sprinkler systems. PVC is known for its fire retardance.
• PVC needs lead to stabilize it. False. Almost all PVC products made today in the U.S. and Europe are made without lead. Occasionally imported products are found to contain lead, but these products can be made of almost any material (lead historically has been used to brighten certain pigments). Importers need to set and enforce standards stipulating no lead.
• Phthalate plasticizers are harmful. Phthalates in vinyl products have never been shown to cause harm and are accepted for use by FDA.
• PVC is hard to recycle. PVC is as recyclable as PP. In fact, carpet and flooring companies are taking back and/or recycling millions of pounds of PVC. See more at www.vinylnewsservice.net .
PVC has probably been more studied than any other plastic, and the most comprehensive studies (including one by the U.S. Green Building Council) have concluded that PVC’s overall impacts are similar to those of other materials, and can be lower.
 

WolverineCoatings

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Oct 22, 2007
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Spartanburg, SC
Yeah Yeah Yeah...

If I were going to use tiles... I would buy the ones made in America... Racedeck...

Let's face it. If China is putting lead in Thomas the Train you KNOW they are putting it in the cheap garage tiles!
 

thegarageguy

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Damn Wolverine, The man just rebutted most of RaceDecks anti PVC points and you dismiss him like that? NICE!

Isn't PVC used for our plumbing in our homes? How dangerous can it be?
 

mikeyr

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I am with Wolverine on this one...the guy has one post and comes on here to trash someone who has been here for years...sorry, until proven otherwise he is a scammer to me.
 

Rudyjr

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Just my 2 cents: I think if you buy something from a well known American manufacturer you can be pretty confident that it contains what they state that it contains. But when you buy something from over seas it "may" contain other things besides what it states. Just one of the hazards of dealing with an unknown low bid supplier with little oversight. Case in point drywall.
 
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benjamming

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I am with Wolverine on this one...the guy has one post and comes on here to trash someone who has been here for years...sorry, until proven otherwise he is a scammer to me.

Post count doesn't really mean much but rather the content of the post. What about the rebuttal is wrong? Apparently wolverine thinks the rebuttal is true as shown by his strawman argument.
 
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gsw

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Firstly let me state up front that I am a distributor of a competitor's product to Race Deck. It also is a polypropylene tile, so I see PVC as a competitor. That said, I am always curious when anyone makes claims without quoting the source. An interesting point is that I found the exact "explanation" that Racedeck1 posted on a commercial website in 2008. http://www.albox.com.au/ppvpvc.asp?Currency_Type=AUS.

As a guy who used to work for GE Plastics, I know some of the regulations and guidelines that regulate the use of plastics and where they can be used. Regulations set out by FDA for example. All plastics used are tested by UL Laboratories - http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/chemicals/plastics/ and need to comply with the Toxic Substances Control Act for starters.

Whilst I see PVC floor tiles as a competitor to the polyprop tiles I sell, it comes down to what best suits the customer. A liquid / painted coating may suit the application better than a tile or visa versa. After all - its the customers needs that have to be satisfied - not the retailers pocket. All products have advantages & disadvantages.

That said, look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polypropylene and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride. Bit heavy reading but at least you can see the references from where the information is obtained from.

Any discussion needs to be factual and quote the sources from where the information originated from. Keep to the facts and buy local. Just my 2c worth.
 

PickyinPA

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Jul 11, 2014
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I'm digging this one out of the archives since it's the first thread that came up on a search.

Referencing the last comment "I'm confused"!

What I want to know is... Which is the best for garage-floor use?
 

Shea

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You need to be a little more specific. What do you want to use your garage floor for?
 

PickyinPA

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You found me Shea!

Fair question... And by the way... I think the Drymate mat(s) may be too light-weight for me.

So I found this thread about a product that I may like. A bit pricey maybe... But if it will do exactly what I want... So be it.

Subject: POLYPROPYLENE (PP) Vs POLYVINYL CHLORIDE (PVC) - VENTED TILES

I guess my question is that of "durability"... How will each (comparison) hold-up parking a daily-driver on them? Which is more durable?

Here are the products I am looking at:
http://www.norsk-stor.com/NSMPVN.html
http://allgaragefloors.com/racedeck-vs-swisstrax/

Thanks!

You need to be a little more specific. What do you want to use your garage floor for?
 

Shea

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All three lines of those vented tiles are very good quality. If you are only worried about parking your cars in the garage then any of the three will get the job done. The difference of course is the polypropylene RaceDeck and SwissTrax vs the PVC Norsk-Stor.

If you will be working on cars, using jacks or jack stands, or other heavy objects with a small footprint, then I would recommend the polypro tiles. They are much more rigid and will stand up much better to that type of use. The PVC can distort when under that kind of pressure (the vented anyhow) and possibly lead to cut or damaged tiles.

If you are mainly just parking the cars and doing light duty projects, then the Norsk-Stor is a good choice too. Plus, they are whisper quiet and provide a softer surface to stand on. They are very popular for people who use their garage as a second room for things like laundry, working out, and as a larger play area for kids as well as their cars.
 

PickyinPA

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Most excellent... Thank you! :thumbup: Just simple drive-on for me... Drive-off. So... I just placed an order with Sears who carries the Norsk. With my rewards-points, $35.00 coupon, and free-shipping... What a deal! :bounce:

All three lines of those vented tiles are very good quality. If you are only worried about parking your cars in the garage then any of the three will get the job done. The difference of course is the polypropylene RaceDeck and SwissTrax vs the PVC Norsk-Stor.

If you will be working on cars, using jacks or jack stands, or other heavy objects with a small footprint, then I would recommend the polypro tiles. They are much more rigid and will stand up much better to that type of use. The PVC can distort when under that kind of pressure (the vented anyhow) and possibly lead to cut or damaged tiles.

If you are mainly just parking the cars and doing light duty projects, then the Norsk-Stor is a good choice too. Plus, they are whisper quiet and provide a softer surface to stand on. They are very popular for people who use their garage as a second room for things like laundry, working out, and as a larger play area for kids as well as their cars.
 
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retrobuilder

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Oct 18, 2012
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408
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Alpharetta GA
PVC is not as chemical resistant as PP for solvents but weathers better.
PVC can be created lots of ways. Use of plasticizers and flame retardants can be a problem from overseas and USA.

PP has little lower high temp stability but again depends on the polymer chemistry.

PP has better recycling capabilities, floats in water (not very much a factor )

Both have good impact.
 

PickyinPA

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Jul 11, 2014
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Solution installed!

Norsk tiles with borders and corners! Floor slants towards the middle to a drain… At first I was just going to leave the drain covered by the tiles... But if stepped on… The tiles would separate over the open drain. So I re-installed the drain cover… Better anyway since it will (still) match the other side. I also removed the old garage-door-threshold and replaced it with tile borders… I then added an additional row of tiles and border across the second bay to form a complete new threshold.

You may notice too that I have a rubber covering between the threshold and the edge of the black-top. It’s there for two reasons… 1) To cover the rough-edge of where the drive-way sealer borders the concrete 2) To cover any separation between the driveway edge and concrete that often happens from expansion and contraction. I mention this because… The old threshold was glued-down so I had to **** the rubber covering up-to it… Now I can just slide it under the tile-border. All set… All done!

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