Polyurea or Polyaspartic as base coat?

[Hnines]

I've spoken to numerous local companies that do full fleck floor coatings in Polyurea/Polyapartic. Pretty much all of them use polyaspartic as the top clear coat, but I'm getting contrasting opinions about the tinted base coat. The largest and most notable company in my particular area told me they used to use polyaspartic for both base and top coats, but changed to Polyurea as the base coat because they had issues with long term adhesion of polyapartic to concrete as a base coat, and they claim they had to go back and redo a bunch of floors where they used polyaspartic as the base coat. They now use Polyurea as the tinted base coat, and polyaspartic as the top clear coat.

A couple other companies I spoke to state they use polyaspartic exclusively as tinted base coat and clear top coat, and state that it is superior over Polyurea as a base coat. They claim the reason the first company uses Polyurea as the base coat is because it's cheaper in cost than polyaspartic, allowing them to incur more of a profit due to cost.
All companies I spoke with grind the floors before applying their products.

I'd like to hear opinions on this, and anything fact based that can be added.
Thanks in Advance!

 

[rjacobs]

I've got the 3 part kit from Legacy(would have to look up exactly what its called)... the BASE is 2 part epoxy which IIRC they state "soaks/bonds" into the bare concrete better than polyurea, which are the other 2 layers(color and clear).

I cant speak to which of the 2 products you are looking at "soak/bond" into concrete better, but I know somebody on here will be able to speak to that.

 

[Shea]

I've spoken to numerous local companies that do full fleck floor coatings in Polyurea/Polyapartic. Pretty much all of them use polyaspartic as the top clear coat, but I'm getting contrasting opinions about the tinted base coat. The largest and most notable company in my particular area told me they used to use polyaspartic for both base and top coats, but changed to Polyurea as the base coat because they had issues with long term adhesion of polyapartic to concrete as a base coat, and they claim they had to go back and redo a bunch of floors where they used polyaspartic as the base coat. They now use Polyurea as the tinted base coat, and polyaspartic as the top clear coat.

A couple other companies I spoke to state they use polyaspartic exclusively as tinted base coat and clear top coat, and state that it is superior over Polyurea as a base coat. They claim the reason the first company uses Polyurea as the base coat is because it's cheaper in cost than polyaspartic, allowing them to incur more of a profit due to cost.
All companies I spoke with grind the floors before applying their products.

I'd like to hear opinions on this, and anything fact based that can be added.
Thanks in Advance!

As I mentioned in your post about moisture vapor blocking coatings, polyaspartic is finicky about adhering well to bare concrete. The primary reason is that it cures too quickly. They also are not tolerant to any moisture that may be present in the concrete. Many professional installers do not like to use it as a base coat for the exact reasons specified by the company you spoke with.

The companies that favor it are the ones that are trying to turn floors as quickly as possible. Time is labor and labor is money. They can do two floors in one day with a two-person crew when using polyaspartic as a base coat. Something else to watch out for with these companies is when they add solvents to the polyaspartic. This can help it penetrate better, but it makes the coating thinner. In addition, many people complain about the solvents getting trapped and emitting VOCs for weeks or longer. This is because the coating cures faster than the solvents can escape.

 

[Andy Smith Jr.]

I've spoken to numerous local companies that do full fleck floor coatings in Polyurea/Polyapartic. Pretty much all of them use polyaspartic as the top clear coat, but I'm getting contrasting opinions about the tinted base coat. The largest and most notable company in my particular area told me they used to use polyaspartic for both base and top coats, but changed to Polyurea as the base coat because they had issues with long term adhesion of polyapartic to concrete as a base coat, and they claim they had to go back and redo a bunch of floors where they used polyaspartic as the base coat. They now use Polyurea as the tinted base coat, and polyaspartic as the top clear coat.

A couple other companies I spoke to state they use polyaspartic exclusively as tinted base coat and clear top coat, and state that it is superior over Polyurea as a base coat. They claim the reason the first company uses Polyurea as the base coat is because it's cheaper in cost than polyaspartic, allowing them to incur more of a profit due to cost.
All companies I spoke with grind the floors before applying their products.

I'd like to hear opinions on this, and anything fact based that can be added.
Thanks in Advance!

Shea is spot on. The only reason polyurea is used as a basecoat is so they can finish the floor quicker and get paid. It's a sad thing happening in the industry right now. Epoxy Base / Poly Topcoat is the best move. Installers will lie about it because they know most aren't educated on the products.

 

[Hnines]

That's some good information, appreciate the responses. You guys are likely correct about the fast cure time of polyapsartic allowing them to do multiple jobs a day, although I am going to have a vapor barrier primer used on my floor as the first layer, so the 1 day install is going out the window with that. The one company that uses Polyaspartic for both base and top layer said they would be glad to use whichever I decide on (Polyurea or Polyaspartic), but they recommended polyaspartic for both layers. It's going to be a multi day job for them either way because of the primer layer having to go down first.

Shea, do you recommend Polyurea as the base coat over polyaspartic?
Is one of them more likely to bond better with the vapor barrier primer over the other, or will they both bond about the same?

 

[CFSI]

We have ALWAYS applied a 10 mil low viscosity epoxy primer first, then apply an epoxy intermediate coat (10 mils), broadcast flake into it, then apply 10 mil polyaspartic topcoat. This has been the system we have installed for 28 years without fail. Diamond grinding must be done as preparation if you want it done correctly. If you have any questions, please let me know

 

[Armorpoxy]

A mid solids epoxy primer will always be your best choice. Shea and other comments above are 100% correct, the only reason people use any type of poly for a primer coat is that they cure fast and they can do a floor in a single day. Polys are thin, cure too fast and are not ideal base coats. We have standard epoxy primers that cure in 2-3 hours and are much better choices for superb adhesion.

 

[FJ4FUN]

Another way to sift quality installers from not-so-quality installers is to ask them to quote a solid color, no flake floor and ask for references... The fly by night outfits typically won't touch solid color floors, it's like garlic to vampires.

 

[MetroServiceCo]

Another way to sift quality installers from not-so-quality installers is to ask them to quote a solid color, no flake floor and ask for references... The fly by night outfits typically won't touch solid color floors, it's like garlic to vampires.

I agree with you mostly but there are exceptions. Me and a colleague in FL only mess with partial or full flake systems. Epoxy base/flake/poly. I went to a 5 day class to get my toes in the water. It was $1700 and wasn’t a waste of time but the learning came with the jobs I did for family. In class we did a marble finish, a white solid, a grey solid, some ugly black and gold mess, and a silica one. I like the flake systems and we keep busy with it. I will let you technical guys keep being technical. You can have it. Basements, you can have them. I would say just get references to sort them, not just based on how great they are at doing solid color no flake. It isn’t that difficult either, its just a PITA

 

[Treeman]

It seems that polyurea and polyaspartic are being tossed around here as being the same, or similar. Above, @Shea describes polyaspartic as having challenging concrete adhesion issues. ArmorPoxy states "Polys are thin, cure too fast and are not ideal base coats." On the other hand, @Shea's following website article describes polyurea as maybe a silver bullet for DIY weekend warriors: https://allgaragefloors.com/nohr-s-best-diy-polyurea-floor-coating/

Please clear up the confusion. Thank you.

 

[Shea]

It seems that polyurea and polyaspartic are being tossed around here as being the same, or similar. Above, @Shea describes polyaspartic as having challenging concrete adhesion issues. ArmorPoxy states "Polys are thin, cure too fast and are not ideal base coats." On the other hand, @Shea's following website article describes polyurea as maybe a silver bullet for DIY weekend warriors: https://allgaragefloors.com/nohr-s-best-diy-polyurea-floor-coating/

Please clear up the confusion. Thank you.

Yes, the subject can get confusing, particularly when slang or shortened verbiage is used. Poly means many and indicates that a coating structure consists of many repeating units. Polyurea and polyaspartic coatings are not the same thing, though they can be similar. Polyurea is a subgroup of polyurethane and technically, polyaspartic is a type of aliphatic polyurea. So, all polyaspartics are a type of polyurea, but not all polyureas are polyaspartic. My pet peeve is when polyurethanes are referred to as urethanes. It indicates to some that there is a difference between the two when they are the same.

Polyaspartic as well as most polyurethane coatings are not the best choice for adhesion to bare concrete for the reasons I mentioned previously. They work best when applied over another coating such as polyurea or epoxy.

Single-part polyurea concrete coatings have a much longer pot life, they do not cure as fast as most polyaspartics, they are not as intolerant to moisture in the concrete as polyaspartic, and the higher solvent content allows the coating to wet out and penetrate better. Single-part means there are not two components to mix before application. These characteristics create an easy-to-apply coating that achieves an excellent bond to properly prepared bare concrete. This and the fact that it's a very durable coating is why we refer to it as the silver bullet of DIY coatings.

I can't speak for ArmorPoxy, but I believe they were referring to polyaspartic, polyurethane, and fast-cure 2-part polyurea coatings when they used the term 'Polys".

 

[Bennylava]

Interesting thread... is there an average price per square foot?

 

[Shea]

Interesting thread... is there an average price per square foot?

Single-part polyurea kits that consist of a base color coat, optional color flakes, a clear topcoat, and anti-slip media run approximately $1.75-$2.00 a square foot depending on sales and which vendor you purchase it from. We have a page here that lists all the vendor's kits and links to their pricing. Of course, single-coat purchases without color flakes and a clear topcoat would cost less.