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Pool Pump Motor question

Car54

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Dec 31, 2006
Messages
106
Location
Tampa, FL
So I just moved into this house about 3 months ago. The inspector shot the pump motor with an IR gun and said it was running hot and likely will need replaced soon. Soon after we moved in, the pool pump pressure would go up meaning we need to clean. Talking 25psi+. Now it seems like the pump won't ever get over 15psi and generally the pool seems to have less circulation.

Question:

Does the motor fail slowly? Consume extra power on it's way out? How else can I diagnose the motor?

Thank you!
 
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robertearl

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Oct 12, 2008
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Location
Willow Park, Texas
They usually just die. Your pressure is suppose to drop after you clean the filters so 15 is probably ok. I have found that some junk has gotten caught up in the impeller and I had to clean it out. You might check that first.

Reb
 

supertooljunkie

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Lilburn, GA
If the motor is making noise, the bearings could be going bad. Put an amp meter over one of the legs and see what type of amps it is pulling. If they are high, the motor could be bad.
 
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Car54

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Dec 31, 2006
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Location
Tampa, FL
So the draw does go up as the motor dies? We're tracking down a $500 electric bill in parallel to watching this.

As for pressure...it useed to be about 12psi, then over the course of the next couple of weeks it would rise to 25psi. Now it seems like it never rises past 15psi, but the pool circulation visually looks less, that's how I know to clean the filter.
 

djjsr

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In the cornfields
The inspector shot the pump motor with an IR gun and said it was running hot and likely will need replaced soon.


Mine ran hot for 9 years. Figuring it would eventually fail, I replaced the pump and motor last year. The new one runs just as hot.
 
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Car54

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Dec 31, 2006
Messages
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Location
Tampa, FL
Mine ran hot for 9 years. Figuring it would eventually fail, I replaced the pump and motor last year. The new one runs just as hot.

HA...this is what I'm afraid of.

do you have a sand filter? If so, do you know how to backwash it?

It's a hybrid DE filter in a cartridge style housing. I still have to put DE down the skimmer after I clean it. I have never backwashed it and Pinch a Penny said I shouldn't have to since it's a hybrid.

When I have pressure problems it is always a filter needing cleaning. When I have had pump die, it was total failure.

Right but I don't have a pressure problem, it appears to be a flow problem when it's dirty. Pressure doesn't rise anymore.

As for hooking up an ammeter, I guess I could take some readings before and after a cleaning to see what the difference is. I only have a multimeter right now and it won't handle the current. Let me ponder...
 

Ocho

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Jun 16, 2010
Messages
314
Location
DFW, Texas
Does it get louder as the flow goes down? When my pump basket gets full, it gets louder and the flow goes down. Actually it really never fills up, these tiny leaves from my tree line the inside of the basket and practically stop it up. Might be worth taking the filter apart to look at things.
 

Rockey

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Jun 1, 2010
Messages
168
I run an electric motor repair shop and although we tend to stick with larger industrial motors we do our fair share of "break even work" for the occassional residential customer who needs a fan or pool pump motor. Most of what was said above is true. There are generally 2 types of motor failures - (1) Bearing failure. As the bearings near the end of their life cycle they will add parasitic drag to they motor making it work harder to maintain its rated RPM. With more load from the bad bearings comes higher amperage, more heat, and more slip (rpm loss). This will begin to affect the insulation integrity int he windings which leads us to the 2nd type of motor failure - (2) Windings shorted. This is an all or nothing type of failure. The winding insulation will degrade and at a measurable value ofver time but the motor will run until the windings either short to ground or turn to turn, phase to phase (in rare instances they will open rather than short and not be detectable by meggering, surge testing, IR, PI testing method). Usually whent he windings fail it is not economically justifiable to rewind a pool pump motor for a motor repair shop. Its just to time intensive. There are a few shops int he US that specialize in rewinding small motors very economically but I can only think of one off hand. Replacing bearings, seals and reinsulating the windings can be done very quick and economically as long as the housings and journals dont need any machine work. Hope this helps and I hope your still awake, I'm not.

The suggestion to check the amps on the motor is an excellent one. As the filter clogs up the motor will draw more current. Any restriction on the inlet or outlet will do the same just like bearings going bad, the motor sees it as more load. And all pool pump motors run hot. They are usually rated for at least a 40 degree celsius temp rise over ambient.
 
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gfd_703

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Apr 22, 2010
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west tennessee
Ours will get the little immature acorns off the oak tree in it. They are small enough to get through the skimmer basket, but odd shaped enough to catch in the impeller. What happens is they disturb the water flow and you will feel a difference in the discharge jets, and it will not build pressure.
 
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Car54

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Dec 31, 2006
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Tampa, FL
Hmm...the pressure thing seems to be something that's also been happening lately. The inline basket will go low, and the jets will bubble for a few seconds. I guess I should pull the motor impeller off the housing to have a look. We had a roof job done where many little asphalt pebbles got into the pool a couple months ago. I completely cleaned the filter canister and the adjacent pipes a few times and thought I got it all but maybe not.
 

supertooljunkie

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Lilburn, GA
If you get leaves built up around your pre-filter basket, the pump will see less flow through the impeller. This will lead to cavitation in the pump. The more cavitation in the impeller the less flow through the pump and the pressure will go down. If you have cavitation, the pressure guage on the discharge willl not hold a steady reading. The needle will "bounce" around the guage face.Cavitation will also cause pre-mature bearing failure if run like that for long periods of time and will damage the impeller and pump volute. Keep the pre filters clean.
Good luck.
 

rwhite692

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Central Valley, CA
I have never heard of such a thing as a DE (Diatomaceous Earth) filter ("Hybrid" or otherwise) that did not have to be periodically backwashed. You should expect to backwash it every other week and if you live in a dusty area (as I do) you may need to backwash every couple of days. In addition, A DE filter should be completely disassembled, cleaned out, and re-charged with fresh DE at least once per year.

Right now, (it sounds like?) you have no idea how clogged up that filter may be.

Being that you are just getting into this, I highly recommend that you disassemble the filter, clean out all of the DE, recharge with fresh DE per the manufacturer's recommended procedure, and then see where you stand.

Chasing phantom "motor problems", when you don't know what is going on with the filter is just crazy.
 
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Ocho

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DFW, Texas
+1 on the filter service.

The inline basket will go low, and the jets will bubble for a few seconds.

Do you by any chance have a suction side pool cleaner, like a Kreepy Krauly? The corrugated hose to ours gets old will split, then and **** air. It's an easy no-tool fix to replace the section of hose.

When the pool water level gets low it does the same thing, but you would hear the skimmer gurgling if that were the case. The Kreepy hose, all you hear is a momentary "slurp".
 

VC-Racing

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Mar 28, 2009
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Coastal SC on The Edisto River
You either have a bad gauge or your screens/ grids inside your filter have a tear or crack or as stated , " so clogged up" .
Backwash and service our filter. Make sure you use the proper amount of DE to recharge.

De filters are the best to have, as long as there is no problems. What I mean is if you ever have a algae problem, a DE filter will clog quicker due to its capability to filter out very small particles (3-5 MICRONS) .

As a rule of thumb , what ever your "clean pressure" is at start up, backwash and service when there is a 10 psi increase in pressure.
 

Falcon67

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Jun 11, 2009
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Location
Merkel, TX
FWIW - Our sand filter ate a pressure gauge a year. I just kept one on the shelf, changed it a the start of the season. Still have the filter, same 1 HP motor, same impeller, same sand - after 16 years. We get one of those "blow up" POS pools every couple of years, make it last a year or two then trash it. I toss the filter/pump that comes with them and hook up the old sand filter and chlorine table feeder. Just backflush the hell out of it and it works good. A good 1 HP pump in a 16' or 18' round works great and doesn't need to run but a few hours a day.

Agree : + 10 PSI = backflush time.
 
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Car54

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Dec 31, 2006
Messages
106
Location
Tampa, FL
You either have a bad gauge or your screens/ grids inside your filter have a tear or crack or as stated , " so clogged up" .
Backwash and service our filter. Make sure you use the proper amount of DE to recharge.

De filters are the best to have, as long as there is no problems. What I mean is if you ever have a algae problem, a DE filter will clog quicker due to its capability to filter out very small particles (3-5 MICRONS) .

As a rule of thumb , what ever your "clean pressure" is at start up, backwash and service when there is a 10 psi increase in pressure.

Mentioned above...the pool filter WILL NOT rise another 10psi....circulation seems to be reduced and pressure DOES NOT rise. I know about the rule of thumb and that's what I had been doing up until recently when pressure won't change.

I have never heard of such a thing as a DE (Diatomaceous Earth) filter ("Hybrid" or otherwise) that did not have to be periodically backwashed. You should expect to backwash it every other week and if you live in a dusty area (as I do) you may need to backwash every couple of days. In addition, A DE filter should be completely disassembled, cleaned out, and re-charged with fresh DE at least once per year.

Right now, (it sounds like?) you have no idea how clogged up that filter may be.

Being that you are just getting into this, I highly recommend that you disassemble the filter, clean out all of the DE, recharge with fresh DE per the manufacturer's recommended procedure, and then see where you stand.

Chasing phantom "motor problems", when you don't know what is going on with the filter is just crazy.

Here's what I have. It's a canister designed for the round style filters but the previous owner changed it to a cartridge that has multiple planes (like a grid) of filter inline and directional with the flow. The filter planes are stacked somewhat on top of each other.

I have to clean this contraption every 1-2 weeks. I've confirmed this with my local Pinch-a-Penny. They say since I already have everything, no need to change things around until you have to.

Would you back flush a standard cone style filter system?

DSC00091.jpg

DSC00090.jpg


Here's what mine kind of looks like:
DE_Filter_inside_view.jpg


+1 on the filter service.



Do you by any chance have a suction side pool cleaner, like a Kreepy Krauly? The corrugated hose to ours gets old will split, then and **** air. It's an easy no-tool fix to replace the section of hose.

When the pool water level gets low it does the same thing, but you would hear the skimmer gurgling if that were the case. The Kreepy hose, all you hear is a momentary "slurp".

You might be on to something here. The hose was looking pretty rotted in a couple of places, mostly near the ends. I'll inspect it closely when I get back home.
 

TurboNuke

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Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
21
Just so you know...

A clogged filter will actually cause the motor to draw less amps and could result in it running cooler.

A clogged filter means less flow. Less flow means the pump is doing less work. A pump that is doing less work draws less amps.

A clogged filter is obviously bad and can cause a pump to overheat but not because it's drawing more amps.

I can attest to this because I spent several years in the Navy running bilge pumps.

If you want to save the motor you can add a valve and throttle down the flow. Or buy a bigger motor.

Also, you can check the capacity by discharging into a bucket and timing it.
 

rwhite692

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Location
Central Valley, CA
Just so you know...

A clogged filter will actually cause the motor to draw less amps and could result in it running cooler.

A clogged filter means less flow. Less flow means the pump is doing less work. A pump that is doing less work draws less amps.

A clogged filter is obviously bad and can cause a pump to overheat but not because it's drawing more amps.

I can attest to this because I spent several years in the Navy running bilge pumps.

If you want to save the motor you can add a valve and throttle down the flow. Or buy a bigger motor.

Also, you can check the capacity by discharging into a bucket and timing it.

All of your assumptions above are based on a pump going into cavitation state, which a pool pump may or may not, depending on the design of the pump and system.
 
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