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Poor customer service = building industry must be doing great!

ishiboo

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Oct 27, 2010
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Oshkosh, WI
I currently lease a 30x40 new stick-built as my shop. Wanted to build a 40x60 with the guy. On two separate occasions, gave him all the info to get a quote together and never heard back.

Since then, I've moved into a 40x100 barn and no longer need the building. Works for me. But I do need a garage.

Spoke with 3 concrete contractors to get a quote on the foundation and slab floor. 30x30, 4' frost walls. All 3 promised to get back to me by the end of the week (previous Friday) and nobody has. From this, all I can gather is my interpretation of the economy must be off - they must be doing great!

Good news for them, bad news for me - I still need a foundation poured...
 
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denis4x4

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Jul 23, 2006
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Durango CO
My brother has a steel fab company and does steel buildings also. Right or wrong, he's one of those that is slow to follow up based on the fact that the buyers are grinding for the lowest price and he's seeing his bids and plans used to leverage lower pricing and still not getting the job. Not saying that's right, but it's a fact of life.
 

Kev442

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Jan 15, 2009
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Wi
Deer hunting season. They are all a week+ behind on every aspect of their contracting businesses.
 

bczygan

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DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
Small company, should be busy all the time. Don't jump for all inquires. The serious ones will persist. Weeds out the looky-lous and price comparers. It's good to have more customers than you can handle so you can be picky and choose the best and most profitable ones.

Bill
Builder
 

cowboyjosh

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Mar 11, 2010
Messages
1,066
I feel your pain. Im a small homebuilder, when times were fantastic I maybe only built 25-50 homes per year, this year I'll close the year with 10. Some of my subs have laid off so many guys, and won't rehire any of them, when we call for new work or for warranty work, they are overwhelmed and can't follow thru. Many folks, including myself are weary of bringing many people back on because there is still so much uncertainty. I'd hate to rehire guys and then the economy tanks in 2011 and have to lay them off again, same with most subs. I have had 2 subs that laid off so many guys that I had to find a new plumber and heating guy because the plumber and heating contractor I used for 10 years would take forever for any type of callback, install, or service. Lots of guys got real slow and they cut too many positions, and had they not cut positions it would have bit them in the ***, now that the economy has stabilized somewhat, not having enough guys is biting them in the ***.

Good luck with your project.
 
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slip knot

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Mar 22, 2010
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Texas gulf coast
CowboyJosh nailed it, So many of my usual connections have cut staff so deep that they are having a hard time fielding crews to get their jobs completed. My usual concrete contractor let 3 crews go over the last year and told me he didn't see getting to my job for 3 months. Running lean is running profitable. I got a coupla guys to sideline the project and it turned out OK. Not to my ususal standards but it got me completed.$$
 

Stuart in MN

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Sep 8, 2005
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Minneapolis
Deer hunting season. They are all a week+ behind on every aspect of their contracting businesses.

This time of year it's hard to get anything done, every contractor and all their employees are out in the woods. :) The same thing happens in Minnesota.
 

cheap bastard

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Apr 3, 2006
Messages
614
When the economy took the big dump in late '08, My house and shop burned. The insurance company came through quickly. State farm gave me a check to set up with the assest loss dept at the mortgage co. The money was all set up, but the bank does have rules to address it's protection. I could not find a builder that was capable of handling the contract correctly within the area. Many wanted 67% or more up front to start the project. Neither the bank or insurance company were going to go for that. I ended up with a builder from the Milwaukee area that handled the situation well and quickly. The local subs he used were glad to have some work. Most of the folks he talked to were wanting to be paid up front. That meant they had no operational funds and probably couldn't handle an issue if needed in my mind. No local electricians wanted to work with a fast schedule, so he used a known entity from 60 miles away. In the end, only the HVAC and plumbing was handled locally. Some local guys would drive by regularly watching the job progress. I stopped to talk to an electrician who was watching for a while. He bitched that I didn't insist on local subs. He, of course, knew not a damn thing about the difficulty finding local subs that actually wanted the job. There was no savings over the local guys. The guy who got the contract just didn't consider tough times an opportunity to change his way of treating customers. Maybe he was just better at saving money and didn't have loans due for tract home investments that weren't going to sell anytime soon. The electrical and gas utilities were the biggest hold up to the job. They are the most disorganized bunch of yahoos I have ever dealt with.
bczygan, If you were to ignore me during the contractor shopping stage, you would have no chance whatsoever of getting the job. If you think that a customer should not compare prices, I have to ask why. His money is just as important as your time, especially to him. What is the philosophy behind that? This isn't a smart *** qustion, just an honest inquiry.
 

srmofo

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Location
SW ohio
I had to call 4 electricians to come out and rough in my electric. I had all the leg work done, all they had to do was drill some holes,pull some wire, and install the service.


bczygan said:
The serious ones will persist. Weeds out the looky-lous and price comparers. It's good to have more customers than you can handle so you can be picky and choose the best and most profitable ones.
This worked out for me because it weeded out the contractors that wanted the quick buck that had no interest in quality work that I was willing to pay for but didnt have time to complete myself.

My company (mechanic)is starting to run lean and although the paychecks are awesome, its starting to get to me. They think we can continue to fix as many cars(and bring in as much profit) with 50% fewer mechanics. Theres only so many hours in a day and at some point you reach your limit.
 

kywildcat

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Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
726
Location
Western KY
Small company, should be busy all the time. Don't jump for all inquires. The serious ones will persist. Weeds out the looky-lous and price comparers. It's good to have more customers than you can handle so you can be picky and choose the best and most profitable ones.

Bill
Builder

I'm confused on this one. You think a company needs to "Weed out the looky-lous and price compares"??? So how are these small compainies going to find business? If I call somebody for a estimate and he don't call back.....you think I'm going to call him back.........and be persistant?? Not a chance!! Don't ALL people price compare when they are going to build a house or garage. I just had 5 estimates on my garage, and buy doing this I saved a bunch. Yes, the contractor didnt show up on time, or not at all about 4 times, but I knew that was going to happen, it happens with most contractors. He did to a great job on the garage, and I would recommend to anyone. Bottom line is, he called me back, came to give estimate, and got the job........What if he would have considered me a "looky-lou, and not called me back????
 

59 wagon man

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Oct 25, 2010
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hollywood fla
My brother has a steel fab company and does steel buildings also. Right or wrong, he's one of those that is slow to follow up based on the fact that the buyers are grinding for the lowest price and he's seeing his bids and plans used to leverage lower pricing and still not getting the job. Not saying that's right, but it's a fact of life.

i know how he feels .they want you to take a quick ride over just take you a few minutes and then you never hear from them again. i have begun to charge for estimates just to eliminate the shoppers
 

crewchief888

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Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
13,751
Location
NW indiana
They think we can continue to fix as many cars(and bring in as much profit) with 50% fewer mechanics. Theres only so many hours in a day and at some point you reach your limit.

were in the same boat as you, working with short staffed service depts, and enough work to overwhelm them all the time. outside service calls get backed up, especially when parts have to be ordered, shipping time from our warehouse is 1-2 days. in our case, we closed a small store, and that expanded my service territory by a huge amount, my territory extends from west to east over 2 hours drive time on the interstate, north and south is about the same drive time, all depending on traffic and weather.
add in shorter working days, cold, snow, and holidays, and the customer isn't happy. :(
in the shop i work out of, there are certain jobs that our (lone) shop mechanic cant handle, and it takes time away from my service calls to take care of those jobs in the shop.

like i tell my boss, theres only so many hours in the day,and we can only do so much with what parts we have available.


:beer:
 
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ishiboo

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Oshkosh, WI
I feel your pain. Im a small homebuilder, when times were fantastic I maybe only built 25-50 homes per year, this year I'll close the year with 10. Some of my subs have laid off so many guys, and won't rehire any of them, when we call for new work or for warranty work, they are overwhelmed and can't follow thru. Many folks, including myself are weary of bringing many people back on because there is still so much uncertainty. I'd hate to rehire guys and then the economy tanks in 2011 and have to lay them off again, same with most subs. I have had 2 subs that laid off so many guys that I had to find a new plumber and heating guy because the plumber and heating contractor I used for 10 years would take forever for any type of callback, install, or service. Lots of guys got real slow and they cut too many positions, and had they not cut positions it would have bit them in the ***, now that the economy has stabilized somewhat, not having enough guys is biting them in the ***.

Good luck with your project.

This reminded me... the guy I lease my shop from (who owns a "large" construction company around here) laid off ALL his actual laborers, so when they were building another I asked his sub for a quote... he never got back to me either!

I still don't get it...
 

blue dog

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Jul 4, 2010
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Culver City Ca.
To the OP's original statement, no the building industry is not doing great, as a matter a fact, it is the hardest hit industry, as far as these contractors not calling you back, i can not give you an answer for that.
What i will tell you is that my business was doing very high end remodels, large additions and building spec homes in the greater Los Angeles area, today, i have not built a spec home since 2007 and my business consists of doing small kitchen and bathroom remodels as well as the occasional medium size remodel. None of these jobs are money makers, people are getting 10 bids on a small 20k job, and on top of that i have to compete with unlicensed, uninsured hispanic labour. The industry has gone to ****, and it is all i can do to keep my guys working 40 hours a week to feed there children and pay there mortgages.
 
OP
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ishiboo

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9,481
Location
Oshkosh, WI
To the OP's original statement, no the building industry is not doing great, as a matter a fact, it is the hardest hit industry, as far as these contractors not calling you back, i can not give you an answer for that.
What i will tell you is that my business was doing very high end remodels, large additions and building spec homes in the greater Los Angeles area, today, i have not built a spec home since 2007 and my business consists of doing small kitchen and bathroom remodels as well as the occasional medium size remodel. None of these jobs are money makers, people are getting 10 bids on a small 20k job, and on top of that i have to compete with unlicensed, uninsured hispanic labour. The industry has gone to ****, and it is all i can do to keep my guys working 40 hours a week to feed there children and pay there mortgages.

It was more sarcasm than anything... these are people and an industry who is desperate for money right now, and they don't even bother calling a potential customer back.

The same thing is true for my car dealership... owner wrote a huge letter pleading for help, and I've had nothing but the most awful service there over half a dozen times.

Don't think I'm stereotyping all builders/car dealers like this, I'm not... just pisses me off to see.
 

Keep

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Oshawa, Ontario
The industry has gone to ****, and it is all i can do to keep my guys working 40 hours a week to feed there children and pay there mortgages.

See now that comment right there would make me want to have you as a contractor. Willing to look out for your workers more then your bottom line. You are the guys that keep things running.

Its to bad you have to deal with the illegals.....I will stay away from that discussion.
 

Keep

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Oshawa, Ontario
Small example of this from up here.

Our office had to have our power upgraded from 100 to 200 amps. Being a agency funded partly by the government we are required to get 3 quotes. So I went through the process, got the quotes and called the WINNING contractor back to let them know they got the job. All told about a $6000 job, one days work.

I did not hear back from them for 2 weeks, repeated follow up calls were met with "We are working on bigger (more profitable) projects as they come up, we will get to yours when we can" WTF why even bid a job if you are not going to take it?

We ended up giving the job to the next lowest bidder, they were prompt, willing to work with us on dates, showed up on time and finished early. They got paid the same day.

I still scratch my head about it.
 

blue dog

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Culver City Ca.
See now that comment right there would make me want to have you as a contractor. Willing to look out for your workers more then your bottom line. You are the guys that keep things running.

Its to bad you have to deal with the illegals.....I will stay away from that discussion.

We have to do what we can to get by in these times, i am loyal to my guys as they are to me, the sad thing is that i do not see recovery in this market in sight.
The illegal thing is a very strong source on contention for me, work, traffic, burden on our society, city services, crime, the list goes on. Take the funds from Afghanistan for 1 day and and shift those funds to build a 40 foot wall from the pacific to the gulf of mexico, with a moat full of gators and laser beams all around. How do you think i feel about the subject living here in one of the largest cities on the country with the largest illegal population? I am over it and it was time to do something about this 20 years ago.
 

NUTTSGT

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Northern Central Ohio
I'm glad I am capable of building my own stuff. I have little or no patience waiting on people that are supposed to be "here"
 

mkbrower

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Aug 11, 2010
Messages
44
Location
Foot Hills of North Carolina
i know how he feels .they want you to take a quick ride over just take you a few minutes and then you never hear from them again. i have begun to charge for estimates just to eliminate the shoppers

I see nothing wrong with shopping around. Capitalism at its best! Contractors should know thier competition and price accordingly. I can't even begin to tell you how many contractors came out, looked at the job and still could not give me a price, just thier hourly rate. They could have done that over the phone and saved both our time! Some one who does that type of work for a living should be able to price the job.

As long as the contractor was in the ball park of what I expected to pay and could start it in a reasonable amount of time, I didn't bother shopping.

Mark
 

slowtwitch

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Sep 19, 2006
Messages
169
Not building related, but, on a similar tone. I developed an after-market item for a niche market. I went to no less than 6 machine shops to make the parts. I couldn't believe the way I was treated. Here is some of what I wrote on another forum.

My adventure started in April of last year. Let’s start with shop #1, First of all, this guy made me wait an hour and a half outside his office, while he was talking to someone on the phone. I could hear the entire conversation; it was about his boat and flying bridge. I’m a patient kind of guy so I let it go. When he finally came out, He asked me what I wanted; I showed him my samples and my prints. He looked at the parts and started to roll his eyes and gave me that “get this small **** out of here” look. Undaunted, I told him that I needed 100 sets to start with and would he give me a quote. He told me to leave the prints and he would call back the next day.

The next day came and went, still no quote. I called and asked if he came up with a price. He told me to give him a couple days. A week goes by, still no quote. I call again; this time he tells me he’s too busy and asked me to try again in a couple of weeks. ……

Shop #2, this guy seemed ok; I showed him my samples and prints. He told me that this would be an easy job. Great!!!, he told me that he would get back to me in a couple of days…. A week goes by and no quote. I give him a call and he apologized and said he had issues with tenants at one of his rental properties and that he would get back to me the next day. Next day….no quote. I called again and again he apologized, but, he did have a quote. First let me say, to be competitive, I have to keep the price at $250 per system. If I had accepted his quote, I would have to sell at $395, to break even…..it would never sell at that price…..

Shop#3, I gave this shop a call and explained what I had. I asked if I could stop by his shop and show him my prints and samples. He told me that he was close and that he would stop by my home the next day and see what I have. The next day comes and after a couple of hours of waiting, I tried calling, but, no answer. The next day he calls me and tells me that he completely forgot about me and asked me if he could stop by again. Like a dummy, I agree and told him that Saturday would be good. Saturday comes and guess what????

Shop #4, never called back.

Shop #5, never called back.

Shop #6, when I called this shop, the owner told me to drop by and he would look at what I needed. I arrived at the shop and was greeted with a handshake and he started to check out what I had. I gave him my story about the previous shops and he couldn’t believe that I was having such a hard time getting these parts made. He asked me to give him a couple of days and he would have a quote for 100 sets. True to his word, he called and gave me his quote. It was more than I thought it would be, but, I needed these parts. He showed me sample of his work and I was impressed, so I accepted his price. He told me that since he’s a little slow, that it wouldn’t take long at all. Well, 4 weeks have passed and still no parts.

First it was ”my wife and I decided to go camping for a week”, then it was the problem of getting material, he complained about the cost of material and I told him that I could pick up the 6061 aluminum at a good price…So, I buy the material needed and deliver it to him. Next ….it’s he isn’t setup to do the pulleys and would have to farm them out. Then the shop he farms it out to, changes their mind on what type of stock to use and decides to use flat stock instead of the 12’x 2.25” round 6061 that I bought per their recommendation, then it’s they can’t figure out how to put the radius in the wheel , like I did on my old Logan lathe. …..

So, I laid out a bunch cash for a deposit and bought and delivered all the material and I’m still without parts. In the meantime, I’ve been making a handful of parts on my old machines, to keep my waiting customers at bay. While a complete CNC shop is still trying to figure how to make some simple parts.

The problem as I see it, is that these businesses just don’t want to take that extra step. I can see it in the way they agonize about moving a part off the mill to drill and tap one 10/32” threaded hole, because the CNC mill couldn’t do it. I can see it when they think you’re just an old man with a stupid idea and brush you off. I can see it their MSDS (my chit don’t stink) attitudes and how they think they are smarter than you because they hold a degree or they have “X” amount of years of machining.

I am very tempted to go to China and I would probably find a shop very eager to make these parts, but, I just can’t do it.

I finally recieved my parts after seven months of BS from the professionals.

I will not do any business with any other shop. I’ve made the decision to get my own CNC mill, take some courses and do it myself. In the meantime, I will lurk the forums learn a bit more and also read the threads with shop owners complaining about losing business and how hard it is to run one..... Oh you poor souls.
 
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gcan

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Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
152
Location
Alabama
This is a big topic for me... I work for a distribution company and can assure you that we know service is what you have to sell these days. You don't always have to have the low price but if you are willing and able to provide a quality service chances are you will be busy and profitable even in slow times.
From this same perspective I've done quite a bit of building and am willing to pay more to have confidence in the job and service I'm contracting for

Expecting customers to be persistant is putting the shoe on the other foot....it shouldn't be up to me to chace contractors or vendors.
I often think the recession and slow economy are used as an excuse.
Those that treat every job and customer like it's their own are successful and don't blame others or the economy for anything.
 

metal tech

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Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
21
When you get quotes from several different contractors, your also interviewing them to weed out the problem contractor. From what I've noticed most people on here do some research before asking a contractor questions to have some knowledge to help spot a contractor that just wants to bs their way thru a job. I lost my home last May to a tornado, got the insurance check in mid June. My first builder got me a quote in 3 weeks, nice, the 2nd was contacted on 7 July, I still do not have any hard numbers from this guy. I contacted a 3rd builder and I got numbers in about a month. It seems if your not dropping 100's out of your pockets some builders aren't interested as they feel you don't have any money to really spend. It's good to have contracters/builders/machine shop owners jerk you around, it cuts down on the people you need to contact about work the next time. If you don't want the job grow a pair and say so, I know I'd appreciate the honesty.
 
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