Poor result threading pipe

[Adkroot]

Installing 3/4 sch40 black steel, and my Toledo dies weren’t cutting very clean threads. Teeth were sharp and undamaged, but I went ahead and bought a new Ridgid 12R threader, since Toledo doesn’t make the old die design anymore and I figured the dies were more dull than I thought. I hadn’t used them in 20 years. I’m getting the same, if not worse results. Tear out and flattened threads. Plenty cutting oil and I’m not new to threading pipe, but in the couple decades that have passed, has the quality of steel changed that much? This is imported pipe, but the 21’ lengths have nice clean thread on the ends, so someone’s able to cut nice threads on it.
Thanks

 

[DGersic]

I can’t prove it, but I think the metallurgy of steel pipe has changed.

 

[motorcycle79]

Cheep box store pipe I have noticed

 

[gizardlizard]

Same. Just ran 1 1/4” black pipe thru my house and wasn’t able to cut perfect threads even with lots of fluid and backing the die off a lot per joint.

 

[Adkroot]

Ferguson is my supplier, and though it’s import pipe I’d have thought they’d be carrying good quality. I opted for import instead of waiting the extra week to get domestic, and the last order of Ward domestic fittings I got were pitted pretty badly.

 

[Adkroot]

Same. Just ran 1 1/4” black pipe thru my house and wasn’t able to cut perfect threads even with lots of fluid and backing the die off a lot per joint.

What did you do? I’m going to try to rent a power threader tomorrow since these threads are completely unacceptable.
Almost seems they’re even getting worse and I’ve only cut threads on around 26 ends.

 

[msharley]

Installing 3/4 sch40 black steel, and my Toledo dies weren’t cutting very clean threads. Teeth were sharp and undamaged, but I went ahead and bought a new Ridgid 12R threader, since Toledo doesn’t make the old die design anymore and I figured the dies were more dull than I thought. I hadn’t used them in 20 years. I’m getting the same, if not worse results. Tear out and flattened threads. Plenty cutting oil and I’m not new to threading pipe, but in the couple decades that have passed, has the quality of steel changed that much? This is imported pipe, but the 21’ lengths have nice clean thread on the ends, so someone’s able to cut nice threads on it.
Thanks

Are the dies in the correct slots?

Have seen die sets with two dies of one number...

That will mess things up, big time!

Also if #2 die (say) is in #3 slot? troubles...

The die head should be marked #1, #2, #3 & #4.

The dies are also so marked...

 

[T444e]

Get Wheatland SureThread, import *****.

 

[Adkroot]

Are the dies in the correct slots?

Have seen die sets with two dies of one number...

That will mess things up, big time!

Also if #2 die (say) is in #3 slot? troubles...

The die head should be marked #1, #2, #3 & #4.

The dies are also so marked...

They’re in correct slots. My Toledo dies are pristine, and the new Ridgid thread perfectly onto factory threaded pipe.

 

[Adkroot]

Has anyone used a power threader on this import pipe?

 

[T444e]

I belive pipe dies for stainless, but this was on a Ridgid 300. The weld on import ERW pipe is hard on the dies.

 

[Adkroot]

I belive pipe dies for stainless, but this was on a Ridgid 300. The weld on import ERW pipe is hard on the dies.

Is that welded seam harder that the rest of the pipe maybe? I was wondering if it was my imagination, but the after cutting a couple handfuls of threads I swear the new dies already seem dull. Remarkable since my old Toledo dies I’ve used for years cutting countless threads.

 

[Firebrick43]

Has anyone used a power threader on this import pipe?

Yes it ***** the same. Worlds of difference between import **** and older pipe.
Last place I worked we would save any decent piece of old pipe when they moved machines and what not.

You could install a new set of dies in the 300 and it would tear the city pipe. Take the city pipe out and put and old piece in and it would thread beautifully.

 

[Adkroot]

Yes it ***** the same. Worlds of difference between import **** and older pipe.
Last place I worked we would save any decent piece of old pipe when they moved machines and what not.

You could install a new set of dies in the 300 and it would tear the city pipe. Take the city pipe out and put and old piece in and it would thread beautifully.

Thanks for the heads up on this. I’ve got a handful of long lengths that I’ll try to get through and hang it for the ******* and just order what I need. Not worth the savings.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Yep the new import pipe is ****. Nothing wrong with your threader.

 

[chris142]

I had to thread some gas pipe for propane a few years back. I couldn't get good results either.

 

[Adkroot]

One thing I’ve noticed is that Ridgid makes alloy dies and hss dies, and I haven’t taken the dies out of this head, but suspect that they’re alloy, and starting to dull already.

 

[Renegade1LI]

We only use domestic, threads fine & we cut a lot of threads, always try to get wheatland if you can. Look for it to be stamped A53 & sch 40 & that will cover most of your avg uses.

 

[Renegade1LI]

https://www.wheatland.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/23-ZI-5665_print_ASTM-A53-Type-E-Grade-B-Large-Diameter-Submittal-Sheet_v1.pdf

 

[OccupantRJ]

Import pipe. I proved this out to myself when threading my air lines. Pipe was threading rough, so I found a piece I had that I knew for sure was at least 30 years old, and it threaded great.

 

[gizardlizard]

What did you do? I’m going to try to rent a power threader tomorrow since these threads are completely unacceptable.
Almost seems they’re even getting worse and I’ve only cut threads on around 26 ends.

I used my power threader on the pipe and the 1 1/4” had never been used before so it was plenty sharp. I ended up using the pipe and heavily doped them with loctite PST thread sealant. I pressure tested at 30 psi for 30 minutes and had two leaks.

 

[Jackfre]

Have to agree that the newer pipe is, shall we say problematic? I ran new gas lines in the house a few years ago, 1/2”-1”. I have done miles of threaded pipe but that in the 60’s-80’s and was shocked at how poorly the pipe behaved with my Rigid hand cranker. I found that I could not count on the off-cuts coming out of the dies and it would load up and tear the threads. My solution was to make frequent reversals to unload the dies. Pita, but it gave me results that held.

 

[CraigStu]

30 yrs ago my brother had the same exact problem. He was lucky that his supplier took back the import **** and gave him credit against the higher price of US pipe.

 

[bb29510]

i got a ridgid 300 and having no issues with the box store pipe

 

[Walkers]

I have had similar issues in the past. I wonder if heating the pipe up a wee bit, or heating it up (800 degreesish) and letting it cool, or heating it up and quenching it would help. Unfortunately I am likely to need to find out in a month or so.

 

[Adkroot]

I have had similar issues in the past. I wonder if heating the pipe up a wee bit, or heating it up (800 degreesish) and letting it cool, or heating it up and quenching it would help. Unfortunately I am likely to need to find out in a month or so.

I was just talking about my issue with a professional welder I know who suggested that same thing. Worth a try.

 

[Walkers]

I was just talking about my issue with a professional welder I know who suggested that same thing. Worth a try.

Interesting, more so being that I am a professional welder. Perhaps it is just the 'If you only have a hammer...' mentality, let me know what happens.

 

[Adkroot]

An update, though not related to the potential issue with the imported steel pipe quality…
I spoke with Ridgid today and they said they load their new cutter heads with alloy dies. I ordered a set of Ridgid hss dies made for the same cutter head (why don’t they load the cutter with these dies in the first place?) and of course customer service said the hss would last longer than the alloy. How much longer is the question.
When I was doing this kind of work more regularly a couple decades ago I’d use my Toledo cutters and dies that lasted a real long time. In fact, I can still cut acceptable threads with a set of dies that are decades old and have cut quite a few threads. Either the pipe was more malleable back then or these new dies are poor quality.

 

[nadogail]

What is the difference

An update, though not related to the potential issue with the imported steel pipe quality…
I spoke with Ridgid today and they said they load their new cutter heads with alloy dies. I ordered a set of Ridgid hss dies made for the same cutter head (why don’t they load the cutter with these dies in the first place?) and of course customer service said the hss would last longer than the alloy. How much longer is the question.
When I was doing this kind of work more regularly a couple decades ago I’d use my Toledo cutters and dies that lasted a real long time. In fact, I can still cut acceptable threads with a set of dies that are decades old and have cut quite a few threads. Either the pipe was more malleable back then or these new dies are poor quality.

What is the difference between alloy and HSS?

 

[T444e]

Is that welded seam harder that the rest of the pipe maybe? I was wondering if it was my imagination, but the after cutting a couple handfuls of threads I swear the new dies already seem dull. Remarkable since my old Toledo dies I’ve used for years cutting countless threads.

It's been many years since threading import, but recall the weld seam was hard on the dies. I only buy domestic for threading.

 

[Adkroot]

What is the difference
What is the difference between alloy and HSS?

High speed steel has better wear and heat resistance than alloy.

 

[nadogail]

High speed steel has better wear and heat resistance than alloy.

Aren’t they both Alloy?

 

[Adkroot]

Aren’t they both Alloy?

They are both alloys. Ridgid claimed that it was harder, but I’m not sure of that. I believe that high speed steel maintains its hardness at higher temps than other alloy tool steel, and I think that’s what high speed actually refers to: at a higher speed - like drill bits and cutting tools - a higher temperature is reached where regular alloy would soften and then dull. I don’t know what sort of temperatures the die edges get on a hand cranked threader.

 

[LopezBart]

Heating it to a dull red (which is basically 800F) should help

They are both alloys. Ridgid claimed that it was harder, but I’m not sure of that. I believe that high speed steel maintains its hardness at higher temps than other alloy tool steel, and I think that’s what high speed actually refers to: at a higher speed - like drill bits and cutting tools - a higher temperature is reached where regular alloy would soften and then dull. I don’t know what sort of temperatures the die edges get on a hand cranked threader.

This is right... HSS got its name back when "regular" tools were made from high carbon steel, and feet/min machining rates had to be carefully watched. HCS looses its hardness well below red temperatures which are easily reached drilling steel. HSS has alloying elements that allow it retain hardness at a dull red heat (900-1100F); this makes these much more effective at cutting harder materials, since you can basically double the speed:

Cutting Speeds

Speeds should be halved when using Carbon Steel bits and can be doubled for Carbide bits. Use coolant judiciously.

 

[bb29510]

my dies in my 300 are adjustable, maybe the adjustment is out a little