Porcelain or Ceramic?

[bdamico]

Why what?

why do you want to put ditra in your garage

 

[Dakota00]

There's absolutely no need to put Ditra on your garage floor. If it was a driveway or walkway then that's a different story.

 

[bdkruger1]

I like what I saw on their website. The whole concept just makes a lot of sense imho.

 

[slickgt1]

Don't do it. If your sub-floor was wood, and you didn't feel like putting cement board, then I say, ok, you know what do Dirta might work. But I have never used it. I purchased it once when doing my own reno. After looking at it, the fact that I had to thinset the thing, then thinset on it, I said screw it. Not like it was saving me anything. Then the fact that I know durok and hardi are proven to work, cost less, and I can just glue and screw it, made my choice much simpler and cheaper. When I brought it up to my tile guy, he laughed at it, and said don't waste his time with ********. No self respecting tile guy has ever needed it, and all of them can get by without it.

 

[Dakota00]

Dude, don't diss a product without actually using it. I prefer to use Ditra, over using wire mesh and scratch coat, for doing certain jobs. Ditra has been proven to work, it isolates the sub floor from the tiles. Plus it's fast and easy to lay it down.

I would love to know what your tile guys opinion is on Kerdi?

 

[bdkruger1]

And it stops any cracking in the slab from propagating through the thinset an ultimately, the tile. It's supposed to accomplish the same "uncoupling" idea that was used in Europe 1000's of years ago where they put sand between the substrate and mortar.

But the tile in those buildings has only lasted thousands of years.

So yeah, don't bother wasting time with that ********.

 

[slickgt1]

Some tile guys like to continue doing stuff that lasted for thousands of years. Go figure, they don't like putting down plastic.

I am with him though, as I have not seen a guy that can do a better more intricate and pro layout EVER. If it wasn't for his guidance, I would never have done the mud job in my garage. He was an apprentice to an Italian mason for 11+ years before starting his own company. You have to wait for him 6 months. And this is NYC, I can find a new tile guy every 3 minutes. Imagine being so good, that you have to reserve him 6 months in advance. No website, no yellow pages, word of mouth only. That good.

He thinks Kirdi is a joke too by the way. He does all my tile jobs, price permitting. Did my houses, didn't use any Kirdi or Dirta. Ask me if anything has fallen off, or if anything leaks.

He does use the Schlutter drains, the waterproof corners, he makes his own too. So not like he is not open to new ideas.

His take on Dirta and Kerdi, is that it is for DIYers. I personally am not knocking it. And actually purchased it for him to use. Knowing how to lay tile good enough for my purposes, I don't see needing it as well.

 

[bdamico]

BTW dropped my heavy 7" circular saw from about 7 feet metal side down this weekend on my porcelain tile. Not a scratch.

 

[Dakota00]

Some tile guys like to continue doing stuff that lasted for thousands of years. Go figure, they don't like putting down plastic.

I am with him though, as I have not seen a guy that can do a better more intricate and pro layout EVER. If it wasn't for his guidance, I would never have done the mud job in my garage. He was an apprentice to an Italian mason for 11+ years before starting his own company. You have to wait for him 6 months. And this is NYC, I can find a new tile guy every 3 minutes. Imagine being so good, that you have to reserve him 6 months in advance. No website, no yellow pages, word of mouth only. That good.

He thinks Kirdi is a joke too by the way. He does all my tile jobs, price permitting. Did my houses, didn't use any Kirdi or Dirta. Ask me if anything has fallen off, or if anything leaks.

He does use the Schlutter drains, the waterproof corners, he makes his own too. So not like he is not open to new ideas.

His take on Dirta and Kerdi, is that it is for DIYers. I personally am not knocking it. And actually purchased it for him to use. Knowing how to lay tile good enough for my purposes, I don't see needing it as well.

That cool dude, to each their own. Me, I'm Italian, my bosses who are brothers came from Italy that were trained and worked for a master mason and tile setter for close to 15yrs. Until they came to Canada.

The work we do is all high end and all word of mouth like your tile setter. Because of the work we do, 90% of tile setters out there wouldn't know how to even layout the patterns or let alone do the work and install it properly.

Me personally I like the Kerdi system and their drain kits, I make my own waterproof corners and shower pans as well. I do all my boss's Dirta/Kerdi applications when needed. I used their products in my own house when I renovated my bathrooms.

Schluter system seems like a DYIers product, but many wont know how to install the product properly especially when dealing with their Kerdi system!!

 

[slickgt1]

That cool dude, to each their own. Me, I'm Italian, my bosses who are brothers came from Italy that were trained and worked for a master mason and tile setter for close to 15yrs. Until they came to Canada.

The work we do is all high end and all word of mouth like your tile setter. Because of the work we do, 90% of tile setters out there wouldn't know how to even layout the patterns or let alone do the work and install it properly.

Me personally I like the Kerdi system and their drain kits, I make my own waterproof corners and shower pans as well. I do all my boss's Dirta/Kerdi applications when needed. I used their products in my own house when I renovated my bathrooms.

Schluter system seems like a DYIers product, but many wont know how to install the product properly especially when dealing with their Kerdi system!!

That is the question no one wants to answer for me. Do you think it is a viable application in a garage? Like, has anyone tested it? I got it, and then was told not to do it by my tile guy. I am curious who would do this, at the risk of having to tare up the floor, would be a huge waste.

Right now, for all the tiled garages on here, we know that thinset to concrete works. We know that mudjob works. Does Dirta? Will it hold up to abuse? Like lifting 2500lbs with one jack. Concentrated load on about 8" of tile.

P.S. I love the corners, and the drain kits myself. I actually stock them now lol.

P.P.S. What is your take on Waterproofing paint instead of a shower pan. I saw a guy do one, with some sort of material cloth. I went to check out work a different tile setter was doing. Tile layout and detail was good, but this whole paint instead of pan was a bit concerning. My tile guy said he knows about the stuff and uses it in "iffy" areas.

 

[Dakota00]

That is the question no one wants to answer for me. Do you think it is a viable application in a garage? Like, has anyone tested it? I got it, and then was told not to do it by my tile guy. I am curious who would do this, at the risk of having to tare up the floor, would be a huge waste.

Right now, for all the tiled garages on here, we know that thinset to concrete works. We know that mudjob works. Does Dirta? Will it hold up to abuse? Like lifting 2500lbs with one jack. Concentrated load on about 8" of tile.

P.S. I love the corners, and the drain kits myself. I actually stock them now lol.

P.P.S. What is your take on Waterproofing paint instead of a shower pan. I saw a guy do one, with some sort of material cloth. I went to check out work a different tile setter was doing. Tile layout and detail was good, but this whole paint instead of pan was a bit concerning. My tile guy said he knows about the stuff and uses it in "iffy" areas.

Like I said in a previous post, Dirta is a waste of money for a garage. Unless the floor has a few too many cracks, that's when the Ditra could help prevent any shifting and cracking in the tiles grout lines. Personally I would fix the floor before laying the tiles, not needing the Ditra.

As for durability, I've done a few driveways and walkways with Ditra and yes it can take a beating. Once the driveways were completed and cured the landscapers usually show up with their toys, like backhoes, bobcats and trucks driving all over the driveway causing no damage from the weight of their equipment. As for jack stands, there's no issues as the weight will still be spread over the tile and thin-set.

I've used the waterproof paint before "Mapelastic Aqua Defense" only on shower walls and ceilings, as per the customers request. But I would never apply it for waterproofing a shower floor!! It seems like a good product, but I don't trust it's longterm durability. I'll stick to the Kerdi system for my wet area needs.

 

[Randyman]

First post here, so I'll start off by saying hello everyone. I have really enjoyed reading this forum over the last few days and have come up with some great idea's for my future (hopefully soon) shop build.

I have been installing flooring professionally for the last 15 years, so I figured I might jump in on this conversation. Porcelain tile is without a doubt denser and stronger than ceramic, and you always get what you pay for. The cheap stuff Home Depot and Lowe's sells is not top quality tiles, usually seconds they get from a manufacture to sell off cheap. This isn't a bad thing of coarse, just making sure that everyone is aware.

That being said, whatever tile you decide to install will only be as solid and durable as the installation. Floor prep is key to having a solid floor, tile doesn't bend so having a flat surface is critical for a good install. High spots should be ground down, low spots filled and leveled, etc.

Setting the tile properly is the most crucial step to having a solid floor though, along with the quality of the setting material. Thinsets come in a wide variety of grades, and again you get what you pay for. A good polymer mortified thinset such as Ultraflex 2 works great for most residential and light commercial applications. Making sure the setting material is properly mixed is also crucial, too much water weakens the thinset, adding water and remixing after it starts setting up also weakens the thinset, etc.

General rule of thumb for tile installation is 90% coverage of setting material. In other words you want the tile set in the thinset completely, the other 10% comes from the ridges of the trowels. The trowel size makes a difference as well, I personally use a 1/4" x 3/8" for tiles under 14", a 1/4" x 1/2" for tiles over 14", and occasionally a 1/2" x 1/2" for extremely large tiles. Main thing is though, you don't want hollow spots in your floor, these are the weak spots, regardless of ceramic, porcelain, or marble.

Next you mentioned cracks in your existing slab. This is another problem area for any tile. You said you were reinforcing for a maxjax and level the floor up a little bit. I'm not sure what you mean by leveling the floor up a little bit, but I'll refer to what I said about floor prep. There are several crack solutions on the market you can look at, but a slip sheet is the most common I use. I've had several people, including reps from several manufactures, tell me that waterproofing compound works in the same way, but I guess I'm still a bit ole' fashioned and stick with what I know. I would suggest talking with the tile stores in your area, not HD or Lowe's because these people are not professionals, for a better understanding of crack solutions.

Grout is just personal preference, epoxy is better in my opinion for wet area's such as showers, but I've never had an issue with regular grouts in showers. Most problems with grouts arise from homeowners not properly taking care of their tile/grout. First off all grout should be sealed after it has had time to cure after a fresh install, and the better the sealer, the better it will protect and longer it will last. Wet areas such as showers and kitchen counters should be sealed regularly, at least every 6 months. Properly cleaning your tile and grout also extends the life and look of your grout. Harsh cleaners, especially bleach will deteriorate your grout. Sure it will kill some of the surface mildew, but you wouldn't have the mildew in the first place if properly sealed and maintained. I only recommend a 50/50 solution of vinegar and water for cleaning.

Grout joint size is also a personal preference, but 1/8" is as small as I would suggest on most floor tile applications. Tile is NOT all the same size, in fact most manufactures only guarantee a 1/8" variance on high end tiles. I can personally say the cheap stuff from HD and Lowe's is closer to 1/4" variance most of the time, and have seen 3/8" difference on really cheap stuff. Because of this, I wouldn't suggest a grout line less than 3/16", otherwise you wouldn't be able to keep the grout line's straight. This is usually the biggest factor in determining grout joint spacing, with personal preference following. To answer someone else above about butting tiles together with no joint, in theory yes, if all the tiles were the same size and had some sort of beveled edge to hold grout. In fact 12" x 12" marble and granite is installed like this, but even cheap quality marble and granite has a much tighter variance than even more expensive tiles. This is because they are cut with a cnc machine rather than poured into a mold.

There are a lot of benefits and drawbacks to hard tiles, depending on application. I have pondered for the last year what product would serve best in my shop build, and personally I believe I'll be going with VCT for several reasons. First of all it's cheap, you can buy most any color for around 50 - 75 cents per square foot. Secondly, it's easy to install and maintain, and properly installed it looks great. There is no grout joints to collect dirt, dust, and grease, which is a pain to clean btw, or interfere with rolling objects across the floor. It won't break from dropping a hammer or other large heavy tool, and it's quieter. It can gouge, if hit with a sharp object, but the tiles are easy enough to replace, even more so than hard tiles. A good commercial sealer and wax would last for quite some time, and most scuffs and marks can be buffed out.

I'm sorry, I seem to be rambling now, but I hope I have offered some insight, and I hope some of this information will help you make a better decision on whatever flooring choice you decide to go with. Best advice is don't take shortcuts. A bad flooring install, especially in a workshop, can be an expensive headache, and if your like me, I can find much better things to spend my time and money on.

Jon

Great write up!

 

[amysarah]

Thank you!

 

[annimossity]

VCT is NOT linoleum. It is much harder, and much thicker.

Stacked in boxes.

Test fitting.

Done.

Used as a bench top.

Jim

Nice, im totally doing this. This stuff looks like it suits my needs the best, i can put my car on jack stands, change an engine and drop tools on it and not worry about it breaking\chipping.