Porcelain Tile Install...First-Time Post

[901man]

First time posting. So far this place has been a great resource and I’m hoping I can get some sound advice from everybody here.

I have a 450sq/ft attached garage (bedrooms overhead) in a 1959 ranch home. I originally wanted to go with expoxy but have fallen for the look of tile.

Floor is in rough shape cosmetically. If I could post pics I would but this is my first post. Basically there’s a lot of spalling and minor cracks. The worst crack is quite long but there’s no separation. It doesn’t seem to move at all throughout the seasons and isn’t out of plane. Whoever originally poured the floor did a terrible job, sloping it toward the entryway door between the garage and house. I’ll have to correct this in a couple of areas using self leveler.

I plan on using 12x24 porcelain tile from Lowe’s. It’s Style Selections “mitte gray” and rated at PEI 4 I believe. I think I’d do 1/8” grout lines...maybe epoxy grout if I work up the courage.

For the record I’m fairly experienced with tiling. I’ve done a few showers, a countertop and a good deal of flooring but I’ve never installed over concrete.

I have the following questions:

• Assuming I can chip away any loose concrete and patch, do I need to scar/etch the entire surface of the garage floor for adhesion?
• That leads me to the question of uncoupling membranes. I’d rather avoid them if it’s overkill for my situation (ditra, etc.). Would rolling on some red guard or other crack isolation over the cracks and using a flexible thin set like flex bond work?
• I’d like to install this over the winter but I’m worried about working temps, shrinkage, etc. I could probably keep the garage around 50 degrees while working and letting everything cure.
• If I have to use an uncoupling membrane would Laticrete’s Strata suffice? I like the idea of letting the floor breathe and this mat allows that. I highly doubt there’s a vapor barrier under the slab and would like things to dry out.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Shiftless]

I’m no pro but have done a few small tile jobs.
Lippage will be a big problem with tiles that large over your less than perfect floor.
Also, moisture will not move up through glazed porcelain tile.
The uncoupling membrane will minimize transfer of concrete cracks to your tile and grout lines.

 

[901man]

Yeah, I've considered the lippage issues. The floor, while spalling like crazy in some spots, is relatively flat (no out-of-plane cracks) so I think I can minimize the lippage...and maybe do a bit wider grout lines.

I've been researching the moisture issue and I think the moisture will migrate through the thin set just fine...but the epoxy grout would trap the moisture along with the tiles. So I may need to consider regular grout.

 

[Shiftless]

One of our 2 bathrooms has epoxy grout on the floor tile. No staining issues ever.
The other bathroom has regular grout and even though it’s used a lot less, gets stained and takes work to get it clean.
I’m a big fan of epoxy grout even though it’s WAY more expensive.
Both bathrooms are built over crawl space with plywood subfloor and cement board underlayment. No isolation membrane. No cracks in 10+ years.

 

[bmw57isetta]

901man:

If you haven't already done so, please check out Dakota00's porcelain tile job he did in his garage. One of the top threads in GJ I've read. Might pick up a few good tips.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212509&highlight=porcelain

 

[jeff_gates]

Anti lippage kit

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D2FQ3SM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X6V9EQQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[b-boy]

Anti lippage kit

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D2FQ3SM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X6V9EQQ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I used a similar kit.

It worked well, but I had issues because I couldn't finish all the tiling in one day. It sat overnight and setup on the edges, and in a few spots you can see where I stopped and restarted. The dry tiles weren't pulled flush with the wet tiles.

 

[Dakota00]

I have the following questions:

• Assuming I can chip away any loose concrete and patch, do I need to scar/etch the entire surface of the garage floor for adhesion?
• That leads me to the question of uncoupling membranes. I’d rather avoid them if it’s overkill for my situation (ditra, etc.). Would rolling on some red guard or other crack isolation over the cracks and using a flexible thin set like flex bond work?
• I’d like to install this over the winter but I’m worried about working temps, shrinkage, etc. I could probably keep the garage around 50 degrees while working and letting everything cure.
• If I have to use an uncoupling membrane would Laticrete’s Strata suffice? I like the idea of letting the floor breathe and this mat allows that. I highly doubt there’s a vapor barrier under the slab and would like things to dry out.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

-No, etching is not required for greater adhesion on the garage floor. As long as any stains have been treated and the whole floor has been thoroughly washed, you are good to go.

-I wouldn't recommend using ditra in the garage. Using a liquid crack isolating membrane, ie: RedGard or AquaDefense plus a flexing thinset like Kerabond/Keralastic system or Flexbond would be the best approach.

-As for working temperatures, you are fine as long as you stay above 40F from start to finish, include an extra 2 weeks after for curing.

-Also I wanted to add, there's no need to use epoxy grout. A premium polymer grout is just as good as epoxy, without the added cost and headaches. A polymer grout is waterproof, has a high resistance to stains and chemicals, doesn't shrink (wont crack), can be used for exterior applications which means freeze/thaw cycles wont affect it.

-One last thing, try to avoid using lippage spacers for leveling, especially in a garage setting. These kits pull up on the tiles causing voids between the tile and thinset. Leading to possible damage to the tile's edges and or cracks that can be caused by a sharp blow or heavy weight like a vehicle.

Anything else, let me know!

 

[901man]

Thanks for all the info! Yeah, Dakota's thread was one of the first ones I stumbled across. Tons of good info there.

I've considered the anti-lippage kits but have heard stories similar to the ones described where the dried tiles never match up to the wet ones. I'm fairly decent with setting tiles and probably could avoid serious lippage issues.

I actually struck up a conversation with a tile installer at the tile store yesterday. His recommendations were pretty much spot on with what you guys have said. Red Guarding the cracks only seems like the most sensible approach vs. doing the entire floor.

What's the best way to clean the floor without making a huge mess? The problem I have is the drywall goes all the way down to the garage floor. I'll eventually do a tile baseboard but I'd like to not get it sopping wet.

 

[Dakota00]

What's the best way to clean the floor without making a huge mess? The problem I have is the drywall goes all the way down to the garage floor. I'll eventually do a tile baseboard but I'd like to not get it sopping wet.

Purchase a roll of cheap plastic poly and tape it to the walls. I would also tape the lower end of the sheet, so it doesn't blow up when washing.

View media item 88288

 

[901man]

Ran across a really good deal on some porcelain tile at Floor & Decor. $.90/sq ft. Not exactly what I wanted but at that price I had to get it. It's more of a stone look than concrete. Photo makes it look more busy than it actually is. Pressed edges, PEI 4, fairly good slip resistance.

 

[jp828108]

Tile looks nice. I haven't done any tile in a garage, but did use Style Selections for my finished basement. I would NEVER use them again. Lowe's likely has multiple manufacturers creating the "same" tile. I ended up with 3 vastly different tiles all with the same SKU number. They are different colors and different sizes/thicknesses. Lowe's passed the blame to the tile installer, but I ordered it from them, they picked the order, and we aren't talking just a different shade looks like 3 different tiles. In the end my tile guy should have caught it, but he didn't. Lowe's said take it up with him, but he is a family friend. Moral of the story be careful with Style Selections ****. And pay attention the batch numbers on the boxes.

 

[901man]

Tile looks nice. I haven't done any tile in a garage, but did use Style Selections for my finished basement. I would NEVER use them again. Lowe's likely has multiple manufacturers creating the "same" tile. I ended up with 3 vastly different tiles all with the same SKU number. They are different colors and different sizes/thicknesses. Lowe's passed the blame to the tile installer, but I ordered it from them, they picked the order, and we aren't talking just a different shade looks like 3 different tiles. In the end my tile guy should have caught it, but he didn't. Lowe's said take it up with him, but he is a family friend. Moral of the story be careful with Style Selections ****. And pay attention the batch numbers on the boxes.

Thanks. Funny you mention that because I was reading some reviews of that tile and many complained about varying sizes and colors of the tile. Some said they could be as much as 1/4" difference in size which sounds crazy.

I've checked a few of the tiles I purchased and they seem pretty uniform in size/color so we'll see. They were all from a single pallet so hopefully they're from the same lot.

 

[Angelfire]

Good luck with the install. You're going to love having the porcelain floor! I know I am very happy with mine. I self installed as well (with a lot of help from Dakota!) and the knees weren't happy but a few months on, and all that is forgotten. Don't be afraid to ask any questions as there are a number of folks here that have either installed their own or are expert tile setters.
Cheers.

 

[901man]

Good luck with the install. You're going to love having the porcelain floor! I know I am very happy with mine. I self installed as well (with a lot of help from Dakota!) and the knees weren't happy but a few months on, and all that is forgotten. Don't be afraid to ask any questions as there are a number of folks here that have either installed their own or are expert tile setters.
Cheers.

Thanks! Your floor looks awesome. That's the style of tile I was after but I couldn't find anything in my price range. Does the tile show much dirt (from tires, dust, etc.)? Also, how is the Fusion Pro working out? I was looking at Mapei's Ultracolor...I think it's acrylic based...but some people have complained about it not setting up and is still soft after weeks of curing.

 

[Angelfire]

Thanks! Your floor looks awesome. That's the style of tile I was after but I couldn't find anything in my price range. Does the tile show much dirt (from tires, dust, etc.)? Also, how is the Fusion Pro working out? I was looking at Mapei's Ultracolor...I think it's acrylic based...but some people have complained about it not setting up and is still soft after weeks of curing.

I got really lucky with the tile. I found it and it was well above my price range but I kept an eye on it for probably 7 months and then one day, it went straight to clearance price. Really lucked out.

It doesn't show dirt all that much but I do live in the desert and have a dirt driveway so if I pull in then back out, there's definitely dust tracks there. Doesn't bother me to be honest. Every now and again, I'll give it a dry mop and all is good.

As for the Fusion Pro, it's been working very well.....haven't stained it yet! Rather than staying soft, it actually hardens faster than regular grout. You have to completely change the way you apply the stuff and it is pretty labor intensive. Not as difficult as epoxy but there is definitely a learning curve. Overall though, I'm happy I did it as nothing seems to stick to it so far. I'll be changing the clutch on my truck soon and will no doubt be making a mess. That will be my toughest test yet of it.
Cheers.

 

[901man]

I got really lucky with the tile. I found it and it was well above my price range but I kept an eye on it for probably 7 months and then one day, it went straight to clearance price. Really lucked out.

It doesn't show dirt all that much but I do live in the desert and have a dirt driveway so if I pull in then back out, there's definitely dust tracks there. Doesn't bother me to be honest. Every now and again, I'll give it a dry mop and all is good.

As for the Fusion Pro, it's been working very well.....haven't stained it yet! Rather than staying soft, it actually hardens faster than regular grout. You have to completely change the way you apply the stuff and it is pretty labor intensive. Not as difficult as epoxy but there is definitely a learning curve. Overall though, I'm happy I did it as nothing seems to stick to it so far. I'll be changing the clutch on my truck soon and will no doubt be making a mess. That will be my toughest test yet of it.
Cheers.

I think I'll check out the Fusion Pro. Mapei's stuff gets mixed reviews.

I'm still debating on installing the tile over the winter or waiting until Spring. The thought of chipping away spalling concrete and power-washing in the middle of winter isn't appealing.

 

[Angelfire]

I think I'll check out the Fusion Pro. Mapei's stuff gets mixed reviews.

I'm still debating on installing the tile over the winter or waiting until Spring. The thought of chipping away spalling concrete and power-washing in the middle of winter isn't appealing.

Try wet sawing in the dead of winter! Did that for a floor in my home a while back. Was miserable heading out to crack the ice and run the saw. It sounds like if it’s above 50, you should be good at least in terms of the thinset curing.

 

[901man]

Try wet sawing in the dead of winter! Did that for a floor in my home a while back. Was miserable heading out to crack the ice and run the saw. It sounds like if it’s above 50, you should be good at least in terms of the thinset curing.

Sounds miserable. Not quite as bad as your story but I remember having to cut plywood for a countertop in the middle of a snowstorm outside (nowhere to cut inside at the time). Luckily the plywood didn't bow from the moisture.

 

[Dakota00]

I was looking at Mapei's Ultracolor...I think it's acrylic based...but some people have complained about it not setting up and is still soft after weeks of curing.

Have a look at the UltraColor PLUS line. I've used this grout for all my exterior jobs, I never had an issue with curing or the product not being able to perform.

 

[Angelfire]

Have a look at the UltraColor PLUS line. I've used this grout for all my exterior jobs, I never had an issue with curing or the product not being able to perform.

Listen to Dakota "The Master"!

I couldn't find the Ultracolor Plus at my local Lowes so resorted to the Fusion Pro. I'm happy with the FP and think I got a very good product but it was labor intensive you really have to just accept that you can only grout a few SF at a time before having to clean it up. It does offer excellent (so far) stain resistance, etc..... but I would seriously consider the product Dakota recommended as well.
Cheers.

 

[901man]

Have a look at the UltraColor PLUS line. I've used this grout for all my exterior jobs, I never had an issue with curing or the product not being able to perform.

Thanks! I had seen this before but didn't realize it was a similar product to FlexColor in that it's resistant to staining. Is it similar to FlexColor in composition? I'll definitely look into it.

 

[Dakota00]

Thanks! I had seen this before but didn't realize it was a similar product to FlexColor in that it's resistant to staining. Is it similar to FlexColor in composition? I'll definitely look into it.

No, UltraColor Plus is a polymer modified grout. It's waterproof, high stain, oil, acid and chemical resistance, doesn't shrink (wont crack), freeze/thaw cycles wont affect it, etc, etc. Easy to work with and quick setting.

 

[901man]

So I happened to stop by Emser Tile and they had some discontinued tile that was perfect for the look I wanted. Specs were all spot on except they didn’t rate the tile using PEI. They used the Abrasion Resistance C1027 method which, apparently is a different test altogether. The tile is rated at a level III which is designated as “light commercial”. Here’s a link to specs (color is similar to the gray shown): https://www.emser.com/products/perspective-pure?variant=19298800067

What do you guys think? The scale goes to Level 5.

As for the 500 sq/ft if tile I just hauled home a few days ago...I guess it might be going back.

 

[Cairo94507]

We just did my 700 sq. ft. garage in our 40 year old Rancher. My tile contractor ground the floor down (Scarifier machine from local equipment rental company) to make the floor as uniform as possible, washed it twice and let it dry. Then using a 12' level we identified low spots and used a self-leveler. The we installed the Schluter membrane to uncouple the cement from the tile. Then he installed the 12x12 porcelain PEI 5 tile with 1/8" grout lines and made sure to use a constantly when working. The end result is very nice and I am quite happy.

 

[foodie]

Wow Cairo, that’s your garage, that’s beautiful!!!!

 

[Cairo94507]

Thank you very much. I love it.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

We just did my 700 sq. ft. garage in our 40 year old Rancher. My tile contractor ground the floor down (Scarifier machine from local equipment rental company) to make the floor as uniform as possible, washed it twice and let it dry. Then using a 12' level we identified low spots and used a self-leveler. The we installed the Schluter membrane to uncouple the cement from the tile. Then he installed the 12x12 porcelain PEI 5 tile with 1/8" grout lines and made sure to use a constantly when working. The end result is very nice and I am quite happy.

Your garage just pisses me off

Not because it doesn't look great, it truly does. But because my tiny (18x18) supposedly two car detached garage with BADLY cracked floor could never remotely look that good no matter how I attempted to improve it. Just jealous. Great garage.

 

[Cairo94507]

Thank you Dan. This was not my first garage and this was a long time coming. I finally have the garage that I have wanted for the past 40 years- I am 63 and figure it was now or never. The older you get the more you really do not want to lie on concrete when working on cars. I also added a heat/AC mini-split so the garage stays at the temperature i want when I am out there. Air compressor is in a shed outside with air lines inside the walls and a 100' air hose reel in the attic so all that comes down through the ceiling is the hose. Lots of other nice touches to keep it functional, clean and non-cluttered too. Thanks again. Michael