Porcelain tile install (help needed)

[corrado89]

Porcelain tile install (completed)

First I want to thank all the peeps that provide there time and experience on this site to help others. My garage is in its current state because of their help.

So after reading through the great tile threads, I have finally started the cleaning and prep work so I can begin my porcelain tile install. I'll be installing the tile myself hopefully with the help of a buddy. I was able to get a smoking deal on tile from Lowes with a PEI 4 and COF >.50 for $0.16 sqft after coupon. I found out that each Lowes is in charge of managing their inventory and will have different prices on the tile they have in stock. I have two Lowes locations within 10 miles and they had a $1.15 price difference on this tile. The first Lowes didn't have enough for my install but the other Lowes agreed to match the price.

So far here is my list if supplies for my garage:

• 1/4" 12x12 Porcelain tile
• 1/4" Reno-Ramp (purchased online from homedepot)
• Flexbond thinset
• Ultracolor Plus Charcoal grout
• 1/2" x 1/2" Trowel
• Redguard (for several thin cracks)
• Spacers for 1/8" grout lines

I could use some guidance on profiling the slab. I am not sure if I should use a diamabrush, just power wash it, or do a muriatic acid etch. I was planning to power wash it once I can move my cabinets and tools to my neighbors house.

My 22years old slab does have several oil stains. Per the allgaragefloors site I used Oil Eater to scrub the stains following it up with Oil-Dri overnight to try and soak up as much of the oil as possible. The method works pretty good but I am still not sure of my next step. If I place water over stains it will soak in a little. Any guidance is appreciated. Here are some before and after pics

Before

After

Before

After

Before

After

 

[Cave Creek Ray]

Cor,

I used a citrus (like Oil Eater) spray on my oil spots and let it set for ten minutes after which I used a wire brush and then flushed it well with water. Then I put a fan on it and let it dry. Did that four or five times and then, just to be sure, I coated those spots as well as the small crack areas with RedGard. If you aren't using RedGard anywhere, I probably wouldn't bother. If you have cleaned it a few times you should get good adhesion.

As I have mentioned to a few other installers, mix a Dixie cup of thick mortar up and go around to areas of concern and put a little cube of goo down. Let it cure for 24 hours and then lightly tap it on its side with a hammer. You are testing the shear strength of the bond with the concrete. If you find you have to hit it pretty hard to get it to break, you know your bond strength is good. Its a cheap way to test your surface and it gives you confidence to proceed.

Ray

 

[Dakota00]

Corrado,

You did a fine job of prepping the oil soaked areas. No need to do anything extra in degreasing.
When you are lying your tiles and reach those previously soaked areas. "Burn-in" the thinset to maximize the bonding power between the concrete and thinset. So what does "burn-in" mean? Basically place some thinset on the concrete over the stained area. Take the flat edge of your trowel and skim coat the thinset flat over the affective area where you are laying your tiles. Then add more thinset on top of that area where you just "burn-in" the thinset and spread it properly with your notched trowel and continue laying your tiles.
You wont have any adhesion issues if you follow this guideline.
Best of luck and have fun!

 

[Todd.Brock]

That Burn in process is something learned for my garage. Thanks for the tips

Question- isn't a 1/2x1/2 trowel too large for 12x12? I know you are supposed to use that for a larger format tile, but wouldn't 3/8 work or back butter?

 

[TTA579]

Another tile thread full of advice! Excellent! Looking forward to the progress pictures as well.


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[Dakota00]

That Burn in process is something learned for my garage. Thanks for the tips

Question- isn't a 1/2x1/2 trowel too large for 12x12? I know you are supposed to use that for a larger format tile, but wouldn't 3/8 work or back butter?

1/2"x1/2" trowel is not too big, this is the notch size you want to use once you get into this size of tile... This will provide a nice bedding of thinset minimizing any chances of voids under the tiles. Which is especially necessary for a floor that will see a lot of traffic, impact and abuse in a working garage environment.

 

[corrado89]

Thanks for the info Ray and Dakota00. I plan to degrease the floor again once I get everything out then power wash. If any test pieces don't have a good bond I plan to profile it with muriatic acid. I'll also burn-in the thinset and butter back to get the best bond. I'll try and take as many photos as I can and post my progress.

 

[Cave Creek Ray]

Looking forward to it!

I broke my new porcelain garage floor in last weekend by jacking up the front end of my 4Runner and replacing the steering rack bushings. It took heat, penetrating fluid, and impact drivers to get the thing off. After three hours of dropping dirt and fluid on the floor, I backed the truck out and swept up the crumblies, then I wiped the floor down with a little Windex. All traces of mess gone. (I always use a piece of cardboard under work but the mess was way bigger than the cardboard I had handy...)

Ray

 

[Todd.Brock]

I just signed on for a bathroom remodel thanks for the trowel info.

 

[ddurrett896]

for a 12x12, I'd use a 1/4" x 3/8" trowel + back butter each tile.

1/2" x 1/2" is an overkill and you will go thru some serious mortar.

 

[Dakota00]

^^^ Do as you like!

 

[56Mark]

I am not a professional tile setter, but I have laid a lot of tile the past few years including my house, family members, and a few flip houses.

More important than whether you use 3/8 or 1/2" notch trowels is that you back butter them and get as close to 100% coverage as you can. Below is a link about back buttering that shows improved coverage when you BB them. Also, note how he trowels the thinset in straight rows so that they make little column rows and when he sets the tiles he pushes the tile across the rows to collapse them and push the air out the ends. If you trowel in random patterns or circles you trap air when you set the tile. I would use a 3/8 notch unless the floor is not level, then I would use 1/2" notch. On tile bigger than 12 x 12, I like the 1/2" unless the floor is extremely flat.

 

[corrado89]

Just an update. I was able to borrow garage space from a neighbor to store my table saw and drill press. I put the remaining cabinets in my dinning room and tool chest in my entry. Wife wasnt happy with the tool chest move.

I plan to do a final degrease and power wash tomorrow then start the red guard after it dries. I would recommend doing your flooring before you fill your garage. I am worn out by just cleaning the garage and the tile install hasn't started yet. I'll try and post photos as I go.

 

[Jack Olsen]

I'll just say that your concrete is already MUCH cleaner than mine was when I set my tile. I hit my filthy, 87-year-old slab with a cheap pressure washer and crossed my fingers. Then I used the basic thinset -- and have never had an adhesion issue.

You'll love the floor when it's done.

 

[corrado89]

Finally got the garage cleaned out yesterday to start the prep work and install. Just to be sure I wont have any issues with the oil spots I used a sprayer to cover the floor with Oil eater degreaser. I let the degreaser sit for 45min and kept the area saturated before I pressure washed it. I was concerned about throwing too much water on the drywall so I bought a surface cleaner attachment for the power washer. This works really well but if you move to fast you will get swirl marks. After the slab dries I will be using RedGuard to cover the small cracks, set the layout, and start the tile.

Before

As soon as it stops raining and the slab dries I'll post a pic of the floor after the degrease and power washing.

 

[Pay2play]

Looks like you're going to have a solid foundation for your project. Good luck on your build!

 

[larry4406]

More details please on that power washer surface cleaner attachment thing.

 

[corrado89]

Larry the surface cleaner was purchased from northern tool. It has a rotary swivel with two spray nozzles. It worked great in the garage at keeping the water off the walls. I also used it on my driveway. It maintains the same sprayer distance so it eliminates zebra strips which is common from power washing.

 

[corrado89]

Here is a pic after the power washing.

Also wanted to show how I set my layout. I found the front center of the garage to align my reno-ramp then snapped a front chalk line.

To find the perpendicular center line I taped the reno-ramp down then measured 15' out from both sides and made a small intersecting line.

I did a dry layout then put down the first coat of RedGard. Plan to do additional coats then start laying tile

 

[Cave Creek Ray]

Widen up your RedGard strips a tad. You don't want two ends of a tile glued to concrete with the middle on RedGard. That way you can stress a tile and crack it. You want one end on concrete and the other floating on RedGard to give you a little "give" in case there is movement. If your tile is 24", make your RedGard strips 25-26" wide. Lay a couple of tiles over your RedGard lines and it will make sense.

Great prep. I know this will be a killer install.

Ray

 

[Dakota00]

X2 on what Ray said, otherwise the RedGard you put down will not work properly!

 

[rpcraft]

Are you just using the garage for parking space? If not then how does the porcelain withstand if you drop something with some weight on it? Seems like an odd choice for garage floor surface but I'm somewhat new to the forums?

 

[SiGmA_X]

Are you just using the garage for parking space? If not then how does the porcelain withstand if you drop something with some weight on it? Seems like an odd choice for garage floor surface but I'm somewhat new to the forums?

It holds up better than bare/sealed concrete, epoxy, or any other surface finish. And it is 'easily' replaceable in the event that you do chip/crack a tile. The only people who don't like it are those who haven't worked with it - and those of us who have worked hard on epoxy floors see why dealerships have tile or sealed concrete - epoxy ***** in a working environment.

 

[Angelfire]

Are you just using the garage for parking space? If not then how does the porcelain withstand if you drop something with some weight on it? Seems like an odd choice for garage floor surface but I'm somewhat new to the forums?

Welcome to the forums! Do a search in this forum for Porcelain and you'll find it's been a favorite for a lot of folks here for a while. If done correctly, it will provide a harder surface than the concrete itself and is not likely to chip or crack. That being said, by purchasing a through body tile, meaning the color is the same through the entire tile and not a glazed tile, if a chip does occur, you probably won't even notice.

Tile has been used for years in dealerships, parking garages, etc....and there's a reason for that. It holds up well to just about everything.

Cheers.

 

[Cave Creek Ray]

My BMW dealership has medium grey tiles throughout the service bay -and the showroom floor. Must be a reason why...

 

[corrado89]

Quick update I was able to put down the Reno-ramp, a few tiles and widen the RedGard application per Ray's recommendation. Very happy with the results but I would recommend that you mix about 1/3 of a bag of thinset if your a DIYer like me and not a pro. I did half of a 50lb bag but the Reno-ramp took some time to fill and set so I ended up wasting a bit when the thinset started to dry out to much.

I did run into a big problem with the tile I purchased. When I bought the tile I had to purchase it from two different Lowes. I didn't know at the time that tiles can be different sizes with different runs. I checked to color to make sure they matched but didnt think about size. After sorting all the tile I purchased I found that the boxes had different size numbers on the boxes and are 3/32" different is size.

Unfortunately the majority of the tile I purchased was the smaller size and not knowing that I installed the larger tiles for the first row before it was realized. I did a dry layout with both tiles and decided to do the first two rows with the larger tiles then change to the smaller tiles with a slightly larger grout line. I can notice it slightly but my wife and a friend didn't notice it.

I was able to find another Lowes about 35miles away that had some of the tile still in stock in the size I need. I had the guy measure it but his skill in reading a tape measure was limited so I'm hoping it will work.

 

[Cave Creek Ray]

HOLY ****!!!

Never heard of the size issue!!! Good recovery!!!

Looks awesome so far...

 

[56Mark]

I ran into a size problem too on the last bathroom I did. About drove me crazy until I figured out they were different by about 1/16. Your garage is going to look great, I like that tile.

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[Miss the Pontiacs]

Wow, I would have never thought of installing porcelain (basically glass) in a working garage. Better than clay for sure. What if you drop a major chunk of steel on it. Is nobody afraid of cracking/shattering the surface. I know you can replace the tile. What about welding? What about vinyl planking,still not the answer for burns but would be a little more forgiving and also replaceable. Clean up would be great with the porcelain. All the power to you for using porcelain, looks great!

 

[TONE]

I love the way the tile looks but what about the grout? Doesn't it get destroyed if snow and salt flop onto it?

I've seen a bunch of threads but nobody seems to concerned about that. Are you even using grout?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Dakota00]

I love the way the tile looks but what about the grout? Doesn't it get destroyed if snow and salt flop onto it?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Nothing will happen... If you use the proper grout for the application it will not get destroyed. It's coming up to my 4th winter with my tiled floor and it still looks the same the day I laid it. I treat my floor like it's bare concrete and absolutely nothing has happened to it. Be it, dropping tools, dragging my jack around to work on my cars, using jack stands, using a 3.5 ton engine hoist, etc, etc...
That floor will be there for many many years to come and will still look great!

 

[TONE]

Nothing will happen... If you use the proper grout for the application it will not get destroyed. It's coming up to my 4th winter with my tiled floor and it still looks the same the day I laid it. I treat my floor like it's bare concrete and absolutely nothing has happened to it. Be it, dropping tools, dragging my jack around to work on my cars, using jack stands, using a 3.5 ton engine hoist, etc, etc...
That floor will be there for many many years to come and will still look great!

Did you seal the grout? I just cant imagine dirty snow dropping on it and it not staining it.

I love the look and I know its durable but my concern is the grout.

*and thank you for the reply

 

[engineer2]

Use dirt-colored grout (usually some shade of dark gray).
Grout sealer is a must. Miracle seal 511 is good and it's available at HD. Porcelain won't absorb much sealer, so a quart is probably plenty.

 

[Dakota00]

Did you seal the grout? I just cant imagine dirty snow dropping on it and it not staining it.

I love the look and I know its durable but my concern is the grout.

*and thank you for the reply

I didn't have to seal the grout, but I did for maximum protection. The grout I used is water proof, stain, chemical and oil resistant. Plus optimum resistance to abrasion, compression and flexural strength, including freeze/thaw cycles.

To sum it up, yeah I'm not too worried about the grout not doing it's job...

 

[Angelfire]

Did you seal the grout? I just cant imagine dirty snow dropping on it and it not staining it.

I love the look and I know its durable but my concern is the grout.

*and thank you for the reply

Today's grouts aren't what they used to be....there are epoxy based ones as well as urethane based.....both give excellent service (with epoxy being the better afaik) albeit there is a bit of a learning curve installing it (ie. clean up way before it cures or you'll be forever scrubbing to get it up).

 

[TONE]

Cool,thanks for the info on the grout. Great looking floors!

 

[sailakfan]

Awesome job so far. I had been lurking for a while, initially came hear to learn about Rust Bullet and almost bit it. But then reading all the tile threads made me change my mind. Was not ready to start it, but today I was at our local Lowe's and saw these in the return section,did not check if they have enough for our garage, around 780 sq ft.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Smoke-Porc...n-x-12-in-Actual-11-75-in-x-11-75-in/50333439

I will make a decision tomorrow, but the specification section of the tile says, it is not ADA compliant and also the 'For use in Garage' it is checked no. Should I worry or is it okay?

Thanks

 

[rpcraft]

I definitely know that the painted and Epoxied floors have a downside if they get wet. I work with a company that supplies and supports a lot of Pharma companies and I've noticed in their production area's they usually have Stonehard floors but unless they go out of their way to put a positive anti-slip device (like sand or crushed granite) those floors are slippery as heck when there is any moisture on them. I guess I've just seen so many chipped and cracked tile floors from foundation's settling in the Dallas area that I never look at it as the go to material for strong floor coverings. Then again I'm also more accustomed to having a normal concrete garage floor since I am renting right now, lol.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Dakota- What type of grout are you using? I used Quartz lock 2 in my kitchen and went from a light grey to filthy looking in a short amount of time. No matter how much scrubbing.

 

[corrado89]

Just a quick update. Tile is almost done. Only 65 sq ft left. I didn't think it would take me this long but I can only get about 40-50 tiles installed per day. Any more and my wife and 8 month old daughter wouldn't be happy. Very happy so far.

Hoping the grout won't take as long. Planning to use Mapei Ultracolor Plus but I hear its quick setting so I will try and do it in small batches. Any tips would be appreciated.