Porcelian Tile Floor Flatness?

[tegguy]

My wife and I are in the middle of replacing our entire downstairs with plank tile. We have had some issues with the tile vendor and getting replacements for our broken ones we had so the entire downstairs is done but 1 room. As we were putting furniture back we started to notice stuff was rocking (some quite substantially).

Can anyone tell me the industry standard for flatness of a tile floor? I started thinking back and they did use a tile leveling system but they didn't use a level on the tiles after they laid them.

 

[PT Doc]

This porcelain tile has already been installed? And you are feeling rocking? Then the tile is loose. Tiles can for sure be not truly flat but with a proper install they should be fully supported. Get a precision straight edge on them and check for yourself.

If you tap around on the rocking tile you should hear a difference in the sound.

 

[PoorOwner]

The planks are very much the most not flattest tile available.
That’s why the industry guideline do not suggest overlapping them more than 33% as this would cause lippage to be very apparent.

 

[tegguy]

Yes this tile has already been installed we hired someone to do it this is rocking with something laying 90 degrees to the plank direction I'm trying to get a picture

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[lakeroadster]

"If the floor isn't flat... the tile won't be flat": Capt. Obvious, Dec. 2017.

 

[tegguy]

"If the floor isn't flat... the tile won't be flat": Capt. Obvious, Dec. 2017.

Understand but if this is a floor problem shouldn't the installer have corrected it before laying tile?

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[tegguy]

There are more some worse than others these are just what I had

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[rustyjames]

Understand but if this is a floor problem shouldn't the installer have corrected it before laying tile?

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Yes. Any large format tile requires a dead flat surface. I belive standard practice is no more than 1/8" deviation in 10' and 1/16" in 2'.

 

[lakeroadster]

Understand but if this is a floor problem shouldn't the installer have corrected it before laying tile?

Should it be flat? In an ideal world.

Is it the installers job to fix your existing non flat floor? I think not.

Is this a concrete slab or a wooden subfloor?

 

[tegguy]

Should it be flat? In an ideal world.

Is it the installers job to fix your existing non flat floor? I think not.

Is this a concrete slab or a wooden subfloor?

Concrete subfloor no cracks and we installed a crack suppression membrane

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[lakeroadster]

Do you have any scrap pieces of the tile itself?

It may be variance in the tiles themselves and in no way related to the floor flatness or bad installation.

 

[tegguy]

Do you have any scrap pieces of the tile itself?

It may be variance in the tiles themselves and in no way related to the floor flatness or bad installation.

We have tons of scrap due to other issues with the tile and damage I'll lay 2 on top of each other and check

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[tegguy]

I did this check and there is a small sliver of light that passes through but it's extremly small. As far as the short side rocking it's also extremly small I'd need a dial caliper or something to measure it it's definitely substantially less than that gap my level showed

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[Bigwheels]

Porcelain tile is not flat or square unless its rectified. After being in the tile trade for thirty years porcelain plank has been the biggest pain in my *** and my installers. The box the tile came in should have a recomendation that the tile not be staggered at a 50% stagger but should be installed with a 33% stagger. This in itself is an admission that the product is not perfect and will have a certain degreee of lippage. When i install a large floor i hold out the best and worst tile i can find in the lot and the variance is shocking. It is impossible to make a tile floor perfectly flat however the amount of expertise your installer commands will help greatly in an acceptable end product.

 

[tegguy]

Porcelain tile is not flat or square unless its rectified. After being in the tile trade for thirty years porcelain plank has been the biggest pain in my *** and my installers. The box the tile came in should have a recomendation that the tile not be staggered at a 50% stagger but should be installed with a 33% stagger. This in itself is an admission that the product is not perfect and will have a certain degreee of lippage. When i install a large floor i hold out the best and worst tile i can find in the lot and the variance is shocking. It is impossible to make a tile floor perfectly flat however the amount of expertise your installer commands will help greatly in an acceptable end product.

when you lay your tile do you use a straight edge or level every so often to minimize issues or do you just use a leveling system?

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[Bigwheels]

We true up the floor before installing the tile it doesnt have to be level but should be as flat as it can be based on the degree of variance in the tile. I almost always expect to remove some tile and adjust it after the initial install and before grouting. This is called patchwork and is inevitable if your truly a proffesional tile setter and not just a tile sticker. The problem with a levelng system on plank is that the tile is cupped and it can be cupped to the face or the back as well as twisted. However your installer ahould be able to remove alot of the variance by by removing and resetting some pieces.

 

[Bigwheels]

Less than 33% stagger install greatly reduces lippage issues.

 

[Brian_WK]

Full disclaimer- I'm not a professional tiler

But from my current tile job over concrete I ground the concrete to get the high spots as well as the glue, sealer etc off. I poured 1000lbs of self leveling concrete to make it as flat as possible. Im laying 12x24 tiles staggered at 1/3. As long as you don't have lippage you should be fine. Any furniture that is sitting still dressure tables etc put spacers under until level. Any stools buy 3 or 5 legged as they will self balance and not rock.

Brian

 

[Toomanytools?]

Yes this tile has already been installed we hired someone to do it this is rocking with something laying 90 degrees to the plank direction I'm trying to get a picture

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Looking at that photo post 4 it doesn't meet this:

Subsurface Tolerance: According to the TCNA, “For thin-bed ceramic tile installations when a cementitious bonding material will be used, including medium bed mortar: maximum allowable variation in the tile substrate – for tiles with edges shorter than 15” (375mm), maximum allowable variation is ¼” in 10' (6mm in 3m) ...Oct 9, 2015

The other photo post 7 doesn't look like lippage is bad. I think your floor is not level or has some low spots, looks like he laid tile over what was there and the lippage seems fine.
Now who is to blame ? If it was my job I would have placed a level around the room noted the bad areas and told the owner about it and what could be done. That of course would take more time and cost more. It looks to be about 1/4" in less than 2 feet with the level, to me that would not be acceptable and I would have floated the floor to lessen that.
At this point it is a tear out to fix, or shim up your furniture and live with it. Guess it depends what you can get the tile guy to do.

 

[tegguy]

Looking at that photo post 4 it doesn't meet this:

Subsurface Tolerance: According to the TCNA, “For thin-bed ceramic tile installations when a cementitious bonding material will be used, including medium bed mortar: maximum allowable variation in the tile substrate – for tiles with edges shorter than 15” (375mm), maximum allowable variation is ¼” in 10' (6mm in 3m) ...Oct 9, 2015

The other photo post 7 doesn't look like lippage is bad. I think your floor is not level or has some low spots, looks like he laid tile over what was there and the lippage seems fine.
Now who is to blame ? If it was my job I would have placed a level around the room noted the bad areas and told the owner about it and what could be done. That of course would take more time and cost more. It looks to be about 1/4" in less than 2 feet with the level, to me that would not be acceptable and I would have floated the floor to lessen that.
At this point it is a tear out to fix, or shim up your furniture and live with it. Guess it depends what you can get the tile guy to do.

Floor was never checked by the installer for flatness they just started laying they also never used a straight edge or level while laying to check variations.

There are other issues with the install such as various size grout lines

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