Portable Generator advice..

[rwil23]

Hey all,

No experience - but, with impending storm in the area - I have the need for a generator to keep a few items at home going. Chest freezer, refrigerator, maybe a little space heater, etc.

I know I'm late grabbing one just ahead of a storm but I picked up a Troy-Bilt model #30594 for store pickup (I'm stuck at work) because they showed that as available and I confirmed with the store that they had it.

http://m.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-625...rator-with-Briggs-amp-Stratton-Engine/4732731

Specs seem just fine to me and similar when compared to other units in same price range.

Does anyone have experience with this model or could maybe comment on whether it's decent or not (maybe I missed something glaring specs-wise, etc)?

Any insight would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Decent brand but overkill for what you have listed.

Overkill in emergency generators is BAD because they **** a lot of fuel. 20 gallons on that thing might not last 24 hours !

A 3000 (peak) watt generator is what you want. And inverter generator is even better yet. 20 gallons of gas with a 3000 watt inverter generator would last about 2 or 3 days ! 2000 peak watts is pretty iffy, especially if you want to run an electric heater, coffee pot or microwave, but if you are willing to swap plugs around every couple of hours, you can make it work !

If you have a natural gas or propane furnace, it can temporarily be made to run off of a generator by some one how knows a bit about home wiring.

Buy a couple of extra 16 gauge extension cords, various lengths. Also get several triple taps plugs. If you want to prepare for a longer outage, get a 100' 12 gauge cord so you can place the generator farther away from the house (inverter generators are MUCH quieter than non-inverter generators). Also, try to figure out a way to keep snow and rain off of the generator, even if it is just a plastic tarp and some bungee cords or a 4'x4' piece of plywood weighted down on top of it,

Buy extra oil. Check the oil every time you fill the gas.


This might cost more, but it is a better buy in the long run.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_473257-48035-75531I___?productId=50277141&pl=1&Ntt=inverter+generator

http://www.homedepot.com/p/3-100-Watt-Gasoline-Powered-Recoil-Start-Portable-Inverter-Generator-75531i/204296275

 

[L.Cheapo]

Troy-bilt is a mass merchandiser. Their units are built to a price point. This isn't to say they're bad units, just usually missing some features and using a B&S engine vs...say...a Honda. No gfci outlets, no idle control, and not UL certified are the specs that caught my attention.

It should have enough power for what you're looking for, but as already said, it'd going to be a bit of a gas hog, and likely fairly noisy. Also may be a bit tough to pull start when it's cold soaked.

Hopefully it will serve you well.

 

[Thezapper]

Theoldwizard1 nailed it, spot on advice. Me I have a Honda eu6500is it's a inverter type generator, once you go with a inverter generator you will never look back there quiet and efficient. Inverter type gensets will guarantee that it will work with anything you hook up to it. Previous to my Honda I had a ridgid generator that had a Honda engine aswell and it wouldn't run my Bosch fridge or my high efficiency Trane furnace. Apparently it didn't like the "dirty power" that it was producing.

Also wouldn't be a bad idea to rig up a way to connect the generator to the furnace in the mean time. I just replaced the hard wire connection with a thick cord and plug. Or a transfer switch and power the panel is even better.... Also have a couple of 25l jerry cans ready to go.

 

[Milzo]

I've got a Yamaha 3000 inverter and love it! traditional generators are far too loud and gas guzzlers

 

[gte718p]

If you think you will actually need it buy a Honda inverter and be done with it. Quite, light, and reliable all the things you want in a generator.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Me I have a Honda eu6500is it's a inverter type generator, ...

That is a lot of generator ! What kind of loads do you have that made you decide to get such large generator ?

... it wouldn't run my Bosch fridge or my high efficiency Trane furnace.

Many modern (electronic controlled) furnace will not operate if the detect that neutral and ground are not bonded. Some generators are, some are not. If you have a spare half of a duplex outlet on your generator, a plug like this will provide a temporary bond.

Apparently it didn't like the "dirty power" that it was producing.

Non-inverter generators do not make "dirty" power. They are subject to some variations in frequency and voltage. Inverter generators are about as close to "perfect" as you ca get.

Also wouldn't be a bad idea to rig up a way to connect the generator to the furnace in the mean time. I just replaced the hard wire connection with a thick cord and plug.

Simplest solution : Reliance Controls TF151W Easy Transfer Single-Circuit 15 Amp Furnace Generator Transfer Switch - Amazon $93

 

[theoldwizard1]

If you think you will actually need it buy a Honda inverter and be done with it. Quite, light, and reliable all the things you want in a generator.

You forgot "Sips gas !"

If you are willing to swap loads around, the EU2000i will do the job.

 

[Yankee]

I agree to a point that the generator is larger than really needed with how you are going to hook it up. (just a few appliances with extension cords)

Knowing you don't have time for this storm....... but if you get a transfer switch (wired by either a electrician or somebody that knows what they are doing) that generator will power your whole house. (no A/C, stove, washer, dryer) All lights, furnace, tvs, etc.

I've had a 5000watt for 15 years as a whole house backup. Works great. We had an ice storm that cut our power out for 5 days. We had a warm house and was business as usual....

I always made sure I had at least 10-15 gallons of gas before a storm...

 

[Thezapper]

I know 6500w sounds like allot but it's not, these could be running all at the same time a sump pump, fridge, furnace, lights, tv etc.... I got a smoking deal on one and couldn't say no.

 

[WhiffySpark]

I have a 5000 watt husky. Think it will run a pellet stove? It's an enviro fire 4. I haven't tried it

 

[Thezapper]

The best thing todo with any genny setup is do a dry run and see how everything goes, and work from there

 

[theoldwizard1]

The best thing todo with any genny setup is do a dry run and see how everything goes, and work from there

Good suggestion !

But the best thing to do is test start and run it with a load ever 2-4 months !

 

[Pwrgeek]

Also whatever gen you do buy make sure when you are done with it to run it completely out of fuel. Generators more than most small engine equipment tend to get used for a while then put away for a long time. If you leave gas in it most likely you'll have a clogged carb to deal with in the dark and the rain.

 

[bullnerd]

You forgot "Sips gas !"

If you are willing to swap loads around, the EU2000i will do the job.

Can you explain this a little more? Swap loads part. Please.

 

[Pwrgeek]

An eu2000i will run any one or two of the things you mentioned (freezer, fridge, lights, tv) but not all of them at once. If you are willing to say plug the freezer in for a few hours and then plug the fridge in for a few hours you can get away with an eu2000i which will run for around 8 hours on 1 gal of gas. My system before I got my Generac unit installed was two eu2000i units in parallel. That would run all of my 120V load in the house. Note that the eu2000i is a 120V only gen so if you have any mandatory 240V loads (well pump or furnace blower if it is 240) that is out and you'd have to go to something larger (if you have more money than sense the Honda EU7000iS is very nice).

 

[TheEquineFencer]

If you do not already have one, go buy a meter that reads Hz and AC Voltage. Keep a check on it when you're running. Remember motor motor loads and resistive loads. The generator is rated at a 1.0 Power factor, motor loads are at .8 power factor or less. I know what the heck does this mean?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor

Things like motors and compressors have a power factor that really can put a generator on it's knees. I've seen people run electric motors for a bit too long on generator that was not large enough to dissipate the heat that it builds in the generator end and cook the windings. It sounds like in your case having a generator that is "too big" is a good thing. It's possible to stay under the amp rating but build enough heat in the generator end over a period of time and melt the insulation on the windings. Don't panic, just use some good old fashioned common sense.

Something to remember, a generator does not pull a load quite like utility power. Utility power has a lot more "ump" than a generator. An example, when I worked at a Cummins distributor we'd have people come in with a little 2.8Kw Onan and say it was screwed up because it would run the rooftop A/C unit like it should, but they could plug the unit into shore power (utility) and it ran fine. What they were doing was running the A/C unit and would cut the A/C off, then back on, the compressor had a high head pressure still loaded on the compressor, it would stop/shut off the generator without ever tripping the breaker faster than if you'd switched the generator off. But you could do the same thing plugged into shore power and it would start and run fine.

Resistive loads are pure power, 1.0 Power factor rated generator like these. Running one at 80% rated and you should never have a problem. You need to always leave yourself enough "head room" for starting motor loads.

If a generator is running under Hz ( frequency) it builds heat in the motor and the generator.

I'd also look at the recommended service intervals for the engine on the generator. I think it's every 50 hours. Running it 24/7 is going to require a few oil changes. The boss I had at Cummins loaned his 7Kw out during an ice storm. It came back almost dead. I pulled the Valve Cover off when I found it was low slow cranking and the compression was off. The rocker lever was so worn it was down right funny. It was ran 24/7 for 3+ weeks, when it was shutdown for refueling, they checked the oil, added as needed and kept on running it.

 

[cajunfirehawk]

An eu2000i will run any one or two of the things you mentioned (freezer, fridge, lights, tv) but not all of them at once. If you are willing to say plug the freezer in for a few hours and then plug the fridge in for a few hours you can get away with an eu2000i which will run for around 8 hours on 1 gal of gas. My system before I got my Generac unit installed was two eu2000i units in parallel. That would run all of my 120V load in the house. Note that the eu2000i is a 120V only gen so if you have any mandatory 240V loads (well pump or furnace blower if it is 240) that is out and you'd have to go to something larger (if you have more money than sense the Honda EU7000iS is very nice).

I have this exact setup, I have two eu2000i's, since I live in hurricane area, I have used ONE of these to run a: fridge, satellite box and tv, and small fan, I picked up a second unit on a deal, these little generators are the bomb!

 

[bullnerd]

An eu2000i will run any one or two of the things you mentioned (freezer, fridge, lights, tv) but not all of them at once. If you are willing to say plug the freezer in for a few hours and then plug the fridge in for a few hours you can get away with an eu2000i which will run for around 8 hours on 1 gal of gas. My system before I got my Generac unit installed was two eu2000i units in parallel. That would run all of my 120V load in the house. Note that the eu2000i is a 120V only gen so if you have any mandatory 240V loads (well pump or furnace blower if it is 240) that is out and you'd have to go to something larger (if you have more money than sense the Honda EU7000iS is very nice).

Cool, got it. It kinda came to me after I posted and read old wizards other posts about 4 times.

Soo, a honda 3-4k inverter with the transfer switch Old wizard posted would be a pretty reliable setup? Sorry to jack the thread, but I need to get setup also. Im not worried about lights or the microwave or tv, but heat and the stupid well pump to flush a toilet would be nice.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Soo, a honda 3-4k inverter with the transfer switch Old wizard posted would be a pretty reliable setup? Sorry to jack the thread, but I need to get setup also. Im not worried about lights or the microwave or tv, but heat and the stupid well pump to flush a toilet would be nice.

Reliability is different from "will it work". During the big East Coast black out my neighbors ran freezers and fridge in 3 different houses over night by simply swapping extension cords at the generator every hour or two.

The well pump IS the big issue. Most well pumps (and some sump pumps) require 240V. Most generators that are less than <3500 watts do NOT have 240V capability.

Does this means that you have to buy a larger generator (>4000 watts) ? Not necessarily ! Though not common, they make battery powered inverters that will output 240V @ 60Hz. Properly sized, you can connect it to a well/sump pump with a DPDT switch. Run the battery off of a small 120V charger.

 

[Pwrgeek]

Cool, got it. It kinda came to me after I posted and read old wizards other posts about 4 times.



Soo, a honda 3-4k inverter with the transfer switch Old wizard posted would be a pretty reliable setup? Sorry to jack the thread, but I need to get setup also. Im not worried about lights or the microwave or tv, but heat and the stupid well pump to flush a toilet would be nice.

This depends on what the voltage on your well pump is. The smallest Honda inverter gen with built in 240V output is the 7000 and that is going to cost you $5000. Another option is an auto transformer. The wiring is sort of complicated and the transformer is going to cost you at least $500 for one with enough capacity to start a motor, but it can be done and if you are interested I'll explain it as best I can. After exploring all of this when I moved into my current house (with a 240V 3hp well pump) and given that this is our forever house I went to a dedicated Generac standby unit with auto transfer but would only recommend it areas with frequent long term outages (I'm in hurricane country).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Slowgsr]

I'm a big fan of high quality generators, the inverter Yamaha and Honda ones are great - I plan to pick up a eu7000 in the future, since I really need something that's portable.

If you do plan on a permanent install, go with a 1800rpm unit rather then a 3600rpm screamer.

When I upgraded my panel I put in the sqd generator panel, it's all one no seperate generator panel, but it has built in manual transfer switch and places to hook up generator outlet etc.

Vacuum seal your jerry cans, and add some stabil, then just be sure to rotate them every 6mo.

 

[bullnerd]

All good tips, thanks guys. Ill confirm the pump requirements.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm a big fan of high quality generators, the inverter Yamaha and Honda ones are great - I plan to pick up a eu7000 in the future, since I really need something that's portable.

Inverter generator - YES !

But, do you really need one that outputs 240V ? Besides a well and/or sump pump what other 240V loads do you have ?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Another option is an auto transformer.

I'm not a fan of any kind of transformer being used in a temporary/portable wiring simply because the transformer will ALWAYS draw some power, even when there is no load on the output side.

IMHO, you are better off finding a 240V 60Hz inverter big enough to run your pump(s). A couple of 6V gold cart batteries (or better yet Trojan T105-RE solar energy batteries) and you are good.

 

[geartow]

Get the largest chain and locks you can find gensets grow legs in storms.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Get the largest chain and locks you can find gensets grow legs in storms.

So true. There was a guy near here that woke up to no lights/heat but heard his "generator" running outside...generator was gone....but there was a push lawnmower sitting there running....

cables and locks will slow them down even more...it's a pain the try to cut a good cable and lock...

 

[nadogail]

My setup is a 13 Horse Harbor Freight clone that spins a Harbor Freight 10KW, Peak Rated, alternator. I guesstimate it has about an honest 6KW output, both a nominal 115 & 230 volt output.

 

[Pwrgeek]

I'm not a fan of any kind of transformer being used in a temporary/portable wiring simply because the transformer will ALWAYS draw some power, even when there is no load on the output side.

IMHO, you are better off finding a 240V 60Hz inverter big enough to run your pump(s). A couple of 6V gold cart batteries (or better yet Trojan T105-RE solar energy batteries) and you are good.

Guarantee you (having put a fair number of these systems together) that the charger / inverter loss is going to dwarf the standby loss of a transformer.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Guarantee you (having put a fair number of these systems together) that the charger / inverter loss is going to dwarf the standby loss of a transformer.

I'm guessing one would need about a 3kva transformer. Ball park price ?

I guess you could wire the well pump on a plug and swap it between line and the generator/transformer. At least with most well pump systems, there is a small supply of water stored under pressure in the house.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I'm guessing one would need about a 3kva transformer. Ball park price ?

I guess you could wire the well pump on a plug and swap it between line and the generator/transformer. At least with most well pump systems, there is a small supply of water stored under pressure in the house.

I may be wrong, but don't you just need one amp rated for just the voltage step up, not the entire load? It seems I have an electrical engineering buddy that does things this way and it legal if memory serves me correctly. That's how he gets a lot of jobs, he's cheaper because of his ability to do the correct calcs for things like this. He hangs out over on SmokStak.