Portable Generator For Live Band

[Leeboy20]

My neighbors are organizing a party up in the bush and want to have a live band. I think its just the basics. Couple guitars and amps, microphones and some lights. I offered to loan them my coleman 6500. Do you think this is large enough to do it? IS there special extension cords? Will it be grounded proper for clear sound and music? Any input if my generator would work for this and what i could tell them the do's and dont's . I got a little weary, when he said, he would just attach 3-4 extension cords together to power the band....What ya guys think?

 

[machine_punk]

Actually, you would be surprised at how little it takes to run a small concert. I've been doing live sound for about 28 years. Most of a sound system (even relatively large setups in buildings) can run off one or two 15-amp circuits. I've seen smaller systems run of MUCH smaller generators and I've run MUCH larger sound systems off a generator around your size. We just used extension cords.

I would recommend:
-keep the extension cords as short as possible.
-make sure your whatever extension cord you use can support a full circuit (15 amps).
-think about how to mask the sound of the generator from the audience (put it behind a car/truck/etc.)
-make sure you have enough fuel to last the whole performance.
-make absolutely sure the generator is up and running well BEFORE you turn on any equipment (buy the inexpensive circuit tester you just plug into the outlet)
-If the concert is after dark, calculate lights into your load (lights take a LOT more power than sound systems...and might be the deal killer in this situation).

That's all I can think of off hand...hope this helps.
Kev

 

[tatra]

nice mp.........now to mask the sound of the gen, how about a good power feed to a box to supply the cords..........went to a performance once and the genset was the big prob. as it was noisy and smoky/fumes that set the overall tone that everyone remebered...........stiil agood time, 20 years ago, but i'm sire the basics apply?.............do music stores supply just quality cable for what the op is looking for?.......

 

[machine_punk]

What I have done to mask the sound of the generator in the past is to put it in the back of the rental truck (box truck), with the back door open and pointed away from the crowd. It actually makes the generator a bit louder, but you are pointing the sound away from the crowd. I suppose any hard surface would do the trick, even leaning a heavy sheet of plywood against some boxes or hay bales, making a barrier between the generator and the crowd.

I suspect a 'good power feed box' is not really in the budget, if they are trying to borrow a generator. Just make sure you use heavy duty extension cords and keep the runs as short as possible. If you have that big of a generator (6500), I suspect you have some fairly heavy extension cords already. That is around 3 standard 15 amp circuits. (5000 watts continuous divided by 1800 watts = 2.7 standard house circuits)

 

[theoldwizard1]

Heavy Duty Extension Cord = at least 12 gauge !

That should handle 15A at 100 feet.

 

[mrb]

I dont know your particular generator (or what exactly theyre powering), but remember most pro audio gear is quite sensitive to power quality (voltage regulation, frequency, waveform) I personally would not power such equipment with a construction type generator. For small generators, honda inverter generators exclusively and for larger ones trailer type with voltage and frequency regulation such as mq whisperwatt (never the generator on a light tower)

 

[IDASHO]

Agreed.

You cannot simply hook up any old generator to a bunch of sensitive audio equipment.

To do it right you will need an inverter type generator.

 

[Leeboy20]

Thanks guys, just trying to dig up my manual so i can show you the specs of my generator.

 

[btoner69]

I ran an entire night on a 5000 watt non inverter type generator at a beach party by the river with no issues. Crown Audio 1000 watt amp, JBL 15 DJ Speakers and an old Tower Computer for the music. No problems. Go For It.

 

[Leeboy20]

Here is the one i have its a Coleman Powermate 6250

http://www.aboutgenerators.com/coleman-6250-generator.html

http://reviews.homedepot.ca/1998/944658/reviews.htm

 

[gatchel]

YMMV Depending on the quality of your sound equipment and the quality of the generator.

Do a test run first if you already have the generator and are worried.

 

[machine_punk]

Hee hee...I happened to be looking at a Coleman Powermate 6250 on c-list the other day...the reviews say it is a particularly noisy generator.

I've run larger sound systems off the average generator for a week at a time for several years in a row (same equipment each year: amplifiers, guitar amps, ). We were doing an outdoor retreat/concert for as many as 600 people. No problems with frying equipment. I don't usually feel like I have a lot to offer to this group, but in this particular instance, I have personal and relevant experience. I have also been doing lights, sound and audio visual stuff for nearly 30 years (as an amateur). I have my own small sound system (could do a rock concert for about 300 people) and I would run my equipment off a generator like yours without hesitation.

I do agree with the test run, if you can. More to make sure you have everything you need before leaving the house.

OH...one more thing to add to my list: Bring tarps if there is any risk of rain at all! You want to be able to quickly cover up the equipment in case of rain.

(Is he inviting you to the party? ;-)
Kev

 

[mrb]

regular old style amp with linear power supply and no DSP will work off this type of generator. the newer stuff with switching power supplies, dsp, and such are alot more particular about power quality

 

[Leeboy20]

Right on everyone.... I did get invited, but im taking this Nova and going to try and win some trophys saturday night.....

Does he need a seperate extension cord for each equipment piece and the minum should be 10-12 gauge i read earlier?

 

[machine_punk]

As long as you are using heavy-duty extension cords from the generator, you can use a six-outlet strip at the end (usually one on the 'stage,' and one at the sound engineer's station.) Most musicians already have a six-outlet strip for their own equipment...you just need a place for each musician to plug in one plug. I'd certainly run a heavy extension cord from each 110 outlet on your generator, then put a six-outlet strip on the end of each one. If you are really worried about any piece of equipment, make sure it is on a battery UPS (uninterruptable power supply) rated for the electrical draw of that piece of equipment.

 

[mrb]

As long as you are using heavy-duty extension cords from the generator, you can use a six-outlet strip at the end (usually one on the 'stage,' and one at the sound engineer's station.) Most musicians already have a six-outlet strip for their own equipment...you just need a place for each musician to plug in one plug. I'd certainly run a heavy extension cord from each 110 outlet on your generator, then put a six-outlet strip on the end of each one. If you are really worried about any piece of equipment, make sure it is on a battery UPS (uninterruptable power supply) rated for the electrical draw of that piece of equipment.

a UPS on a substandard generator is going to either do nothing or make things worse. We find good ones trip on frequency and/or voltage deviations and the crappy ones dont do anything.

 

[mrb]

right from the link posted "DOES NOT HAVE AN AUTOMATIC VOLTAGE REGULATION DEVICE" (the note on the site about a surge protector isnt going to help) I would not plug anything into this generator other than power tools and incandescent lamps.

If you do let them use it, make them sign something indemnifying you from any damage caused by the generator in the event it blows up something expensive.

 

[Leeboy20]

I just talked to the rental shop in town, they have a 2000Watt "Quiet" Honda generator with built in inverter for $40 a day....How would that be?

 

[mrb]

I just talked to the rental shop in town, they have a 2000Watt "Quiet" Honda generator with built in inverter for $40 a day....How would that be?

the honda inverter generators are good. you need to see what they plan on powering to figure your loads. For example if they have a sound system and 8 500w par cans, put the sound system on the honda and use your generator for the lights.

 

[djd99]

right from the link posted "DOES NOT HAVE AN AUTOMATIC VOLTAGE REGULATION DEVICE" (the note on the site about a surge protector isnt going to help) I would not plug anything into this generator other than power tools and incandescent lamps.

If you do let them use it, make them sign something indemnifying you from any damage caused by the generator in the event it blows up something expensive.

I have this same generator and powers my hole house without any issues most times I run 3 lcd's 2 computers, fridge etc for over 2 years now.
just sayin! It hasn't blew anything yet.

 

[VHF]

the honda inverter generators are good. you need to see what they plan on powering to figure your loads. For example if they have a sound system and 8 500w par cans, put the sound system on the honda and use your generator for the lights.

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[mrb]

I have this same generator and powers my hole house without any issues most times I run 3 lcd's 2 computers, fridge etc for over 2 years now.
just sayin! It hasn't blew anything yet.

that has nothing to do with how it will perform with professional audio equipment which is much more sensitive. Furthermore the load is highly transient (with audio, current is really only consumed when the bass hits) and the voltage is going to be all over the place. a fridge and tv fine. am i going to plug 20-30k of audio gear into one? not a chance.

 

[Racecarl]

I have done a few outdoor concerts for our youth group at church. I borrowed a friends Lincoln welder/generator (10,000 watt) and used it to run all the sound equipment. I borrowed another generator to run the lights.

Before I started I used my Fluke meter and made sure the sound generator was putting out exactly 60hz, which ended up being about 122 volts. The generator for the lights did not have a real sensitive governor and would vary slightly. I played around with the governor speed adjustment and got both generators to match frequency and voltage--when I got done tinkering it sounded like there was just one generator running.

In retrospect I could have ran both the sound and lights off just the bigger Lincoln generator, but I felt better having a backup.

 

[79firebird]

i would go with a better genset. i lent my honda 3000 is to a buddy for his band and a rave befor. the 3000 ran all the gear fine and they used anouther 3000 to run all the lights n stuff and never had a prob

 

[btoner69]

Yes, power quality is not the best from most portable generators. I would use a multimeter that measures voltage and frequency if in doubt. I did check those before running my system on the generator. Started generator, turned on amplifier first, then mixer, then computer, measured voltage and frequency and both were within 123 volts and 59.8 hertz. I would ask the band that wiil plug into the genset if they are cool with this. Just make sure to keep genset filled with fuel so as to not go underfrequency, that is the worst possible scenerio. I would not be too concerned about running again even with the cheaper genset.

 

[MoonRise]

For the lights, your 6500 Coleman genset will probably work fine. Loud and a bit fuel-hungry, but fine. And who really cares if the lights flicker or get a bit brighter or dimmer during the concert. +1 one blocking/shielding the drone of a loud genset.

For the music gear, the cleaner power from the quieter Honda inverter genset (or equivalent, such as the Yamaha inverters and such) would most likely be 'better'. Although double-check the actual loads of ALL the equipment versus the actual running-load rating on the genset.

Because IIRC, the Honda inverter gensets (very nice, small, pretty lightweight, and pretty quiet, btw) list the name/rating as the "peak" value and will trip/shutdown if you hit that value for more than a few seconds. IIRC, the 2k inverters actually can 'handle' more like a 1600W load. Which is pretty much just one single 15amp 120V device/load/circuit.

OK, you made me check. Honda EU2000i generator is rated 1600w (13.3 amps at 120V) 'sustained' and the 2000W rating is just for brief surge/start-up loads.

If the sound equipment is more than just a single 15amp 120V worth of 'stuff', then you would be better served by moving up to the '3000W' EU3000is (or equivalent, like the Yamaha EF3000IS ) which can run 2800W sustained (basically that is two 120V circuits worth of equipment at approx 12amps per circuit) and surge/start-up (there should be no big start-up loads with music electronics, although large amps running large speakers hitting loud bass notes might surge the current draw).

Check the loads and get a genset that can handle those sustained loads.

 

[barn full]

I spent about a decade as an FOH mixer and production manager for a few country bands. I have lots of experience with shady power. To do it right you need a real genny. Not something you find at Home Depot. But if this is a party, with a "Mustang Sally" band rather than a concert with a lot of fans that paid for tickets, you could get away with it.

Once at a gig deep in the armpit of Louisiana, a tornado had taken down the grid the night before we played. 200K people without power. But the show must go on. We were playing at a working ranch and the owner had a large portable welder. I used that to run the lights. For the band I used the lead singers' tour bus genny, for the PA I used the crew bus genny. God what a horrible night. Luckily it was a small show, 1000 people and pretty low expectations.