Portable Home Generator Hook Up Check

[Derek8819]

I am looking for some advice for you all since hurricane season is upon us in south Louisiana. I purchased one of these kits from genconnexdirect.net and installed it myself several years ago before I knew about garage journal

http://www.genconnexdirect.net/index_htm_files/GenConneX%20Propane%20Yamaha%20EF2000iS%20Home%20Backup%20System%20Brochure%2070-1007r1.4%20.pdf

I test the generator itself monthly with a standard extension cord (not plugged into house), but have not tested the house portion in years. Of course since the install we have not had a major power outage. It is a very basic kit and only runs 4 circuits. I have it running the bedrooms (lights/fans) and the kitchen (fridge) and living room. It is exactly what I was looking for though I know it is pretty small KW wise. I did not plan to stay in the house forever and I liked that I could take the generator and only lose the panel when the move occurs. I was doing the monthly check and it occurred to me I never really had an electrician look at my hook up (probably a big no-no). I read the instructions, watched some youtube and went at it myself, had some quotes but most were $1000 plus to install and I thought that was crazy since it was a pretty complete kit. Check the pics for me if you don't mind and let me know if you guys see anything super unsafe I should fix before I really need this thing.

Thanks,

Derek

This is in the garage, main panel, switch for 4 circuits at a time (8 total), ATS, and sub panel.


Main Panel and tie ins



Sub Panel



Feeds into sub panel



Feeds from Main panel


close up of tie ins


Feed into wall that goes into attic (orange is what I ran to the exterior plug)


Exterior plug drop and gas quick connect

 

[nehog]

NO. NO. NO.

Please do not use this. Your buss feeds to/from the ATS are much too small. I do not see what the ratings on your ATS are but I suspect it is undersized. How many amps is that breaker at the bottom right of the main panel (that feeds the ATS)?

 

[Mustang51js]

Only thing I would do different is run a 10/3 instead of a 10/2 to the outlet outside. Also it's hard to tell but looks like #12 thhn from the 30 amp breaker to the sub,it should be a 10 wire. Other than that it's a little different but looks fine to me.

 

[-JP]

Do not energize this system. You have multiple code violations indicated in the attached photos and have created an unsafe condition.

Installation is indicative of an unqualified individual. Your training includes reading the instruction and watching a youtube video.

Did the instructions say something the effect of: "TO BE INSTALLED BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN" ?????

Get a licensed electrician involved before someone gets hurt.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Main panel is Siemens. I see a Square D Homeline double pole 30 amp at the bottom right. Not to code probably as the breakers generally need to be the same brand as the panel unless you can prove that they are "classified" for the panel brand they are installed in. Subpanel also has one Siemens breaker in it, and the panel is clearly not a Siemens. Cannot tell what brand it is.

I do understand mixing breakers, it happens, they fit, and in some cases, you gotta. We have a community well house with a General Switch brand panel. I don't thing GS even makes breakers, or ever did, so it got a mix of other brands, whatever the electrician had in his junk box when it was installed.

I see a lot of bare wire at each breaker. Way too much insulation was stripped off. What I really don't like is the wire nuts laying right on or at the bare breaker panel stabs. Carefully fold them back away from the stabs.

 

[Bmwsyc]

I see a couple of housekeeping things that I would change, but overall, not bad looking. 10-2 is all the OP would need since the generator is strictly 2000w peak, 1600w normal at 120 volts. The system is interesting, I also have not seen something like that before. Most transfer switches have "utility" and "alternate source" positions, this one seems to have three states: "utility", "alt source, connected to loads A", and "alt source, connected to loads B". Using a small generator for house backup makes me a little uneasy, but using newer energy efficient lighting and good load management practices, it can be workable.

I'm also curious what the size of the lower right breaker in the main panel is.

 

[Mustang51js]

I see a couple of housekeeping things that I would change, but overall, not bad looking. 10-2 is all the OP would need since the generator is strictly 2000w peak, 1600w normal at 120 volts. The system is interesting, I also have not seen something like that before. Most transfer switches have "utility" and "alternate source" positions, this one seems to have three states: "utility", "alt source, connected to loads A", and "alt source, connected to loads B". Using a small generator for house backup makes me a little uneasy, but using newer energy efficient lighting and good load management practices, it can be workable.

I'm also curious what the size of the lower right breaker in the main panel is.

It's a two pole 30 that's why I assumed it was a 220 generator,I'm still trying to figure out how he is using a 120 generator on 220 setup,I didn't click the link so maybe it's in there. Are there breakers in the black box because what I see is power coming from that box to the whole sub panel so all the sub panel is being powered by a 120 volt gen. I just can't see how this would work with a 120volt generator, unless I am missing something here. I would like to see pics of the insides of the other two boxes.

 

[Bmwsyc]

It appears that under normal power, the two pole breaker feeds 240 to the subpanel. Upon a loss of utility power, the right black box opens the circuit between the two pole breaker and the sub panel, while connecting the generator feed to the left black box. The left black box is a 3 way switch that connects the generator to either the red circuit OR the black circuit in the sub panel...not both. I can't tell, but hopefully there is some sort of over current protection that will protect the generator from too much connected load in the sub panel.

I checked out the installation manual, the generator connects to the three way switch, then to the transfer switch. The normally closed contacts on the transfer switch are for utility power. The generator also pulls in the coil of the transfer switch contactor.

 

[ishiboo]

NO. NO. NO.

Please do not use this. Your buss feeds to/from the ATS are much too small. I do not see what the ratings on your ATS are but I suspect it is undersized. How many amps is that breaker at the bottom right of the main panel (that feeds the ATS)?

ATS is 20A. The breaker is 30A, not sure what the wire is. The wire may be correct or slightly (10A) undersized from that breaker, if the ATS can switch 30A on utility but only 20A generator.

It looks like it is wired and set up overall as intended, it's just a very odd setup. There are minor things like the mis-matched breakers, but I see a lot of them in use safely.

The transfer switch is split up into four "comfort" circuits and four "critical" circuits you can switch between, so only 120v loads run from this.

 

[ishiboo]

Is it legal to source the neutrals from a different panel than the power, by the way? Seems odd but I'm not sure it's against code or not.

 

[Derek8819]

Wow! Thanks!

Sorry it took me a bit to get back, I really appreciate all the feedback. Firstly, I know the setup "works" because I have tested it, but I wanted to know any major code violations.

Charles (in GA)
Re: Portable Home Generator Hook Up Check
Main panel is Siemens. I see a Square D Homeline double pole 30 amp at the bottom right. Not to code probably as the breakers generally need to be the same brand as the panel unless you can prove that they are "classified" for the panel brand they are installed in.

I see a lot of bare wire at each breaker. Way too much insulation was stripped off. What I really don't like is the wire nuts laying right on or at the bare breaker panel stabs. Carefully fold them back away from the stabs.

You are correct there are some different brand breakers, I did not know they all had to be the same brand. Some came with the generator and I used them in the sub panel. Since it was a newer house it had Arc-fault circuit interrupters in the bedroom breaker placements. Since there were dimmers in the rooms for the ceiling fans and lights they were tripping weekly. I had this checked out more than once by more than one electrician and replaced with new ones and in the end they said this was a normal behavior of these types of breakers. When I moved those breakers to the generator panel I replaced them with standard breakers to end this annoying behavior, I see now that may not meet code. The kit came with blanks to replace the "moved" breakers so the tie ins are covered when the main panel face is on. I did not think it was an issue letting them lay like that on the breakers and thought it would help in the future if I needed to reassemble for some reason.

Bmwsyc
Using a small generator for house backup makes me a little uneasy, but using newer energy efficient lighting and good load management practices, it can be workable.

The entire house is gas such as the water heater, stove, and clothes dryer. The A/C system is not setup on the generator panel. I made sure every light that was on a generator circuit was a LED to extend the usability as much as possible. I don't have the generator panel setup as "critical" and "comfort", I thought of it as "day" and "night". I put the kitchen and living circuits on the "day" side and the bedrooms and exterior lightning on the "night" side.

ishiboo
ATS is 20A. The breaker is 30A, not sure what the wire is. The wire may be correct or slightly (10A) undersized from that breaker, if the ATS can switch 30A on utility but only 20A generator

The lower right is a double 30A, but I can see from removing the side of the generator there is some rewiring inside from the factory so I am not sure how that works. The breaker was included in the package and I installed it per instruction.

 

[nehog]

ATS is 20A. The breaker is 30A, not sure what the wire is. The wire may be correct or slightly (10A) undersized from that breaker, if the ATS can switch 30A on utility but only 20A generator.
...

I'd recommend having a professional installer come in and make things 'right.' There are many things that I question (from wire sizes, number of branches off that 20 A transfer switch, etc.) to really make a lot of comments.

I suspect that from a performance perspective it won't be very good (going to be hard to keep those branches from tripping the 30 breaker to the ATS) the wire size is likely too small (can't tell if it is 12 AWG or 10 AWG) the ATS is likely not going to work well.

There are some very good examples of ATS installations in this forum. And there are some good choices for equipment (perhaps more than even in the last couple of years) and you'll sleep better knowing it is being done right.