Positive Signs for US Manufacturing

[jsackin]

There has been a lot of talk recently about Sears and the corporate trend toward moving manufacturing overseas. While it seems like we might be repeating ourselves in having the same discussion over and over, I do think it's an important discussion to have. There are many different angles to this and only in a discussion can we get a better idea of the complexity of the issue. That being said, that's not what I want to talk about here. I'd like to take some time and talk about an equally important counter trend that I've noticed, not on the corporate level, but on the smaller, family owned business level.

This trend has three parts.

The first is that over the last couple years we've seen an increasing amount of new smaller US manufacturers sprout up. These are guys that build stuff in their garage, or are machinists/fabricators that hit on a good idea. A perfect example is Big Gator Tools. They make variations on one specific product, the drill guide. Another example would be Westling Machine, which makes a great quality socket holder. A third example would be Occidental Leather, which was started by a construction worker making his own leather bags, then selling them to his friends. A final example, would be Rudedog Leather which makes specialty ironworker tools. All of these companies are 100% US made small companies that have emerged somewhat recently. I think the oldest company here is Occidental which started in 1980.

The second part to the trend is that established US manufacturers like Wilde, CM, and Barco, have started to purge their tool lines of the stuff they never really made, in some cases, stuff that was imported. It used to be that tool companies had to carry "everything". This required them to put their name on a bunch of stuff they didn't really make. You can thank the interent and forums like this, for prompting some companies to start backing away from this idea. More and more guys are finding out who actually makes stuff, and rightly trying to buy the OEM brand. This has freed up companies like Wilde to leave behind the idea of trying to carry "everything" and start to focus on developing new products. They are currently working on a new line of pliers, some of which we've already seen like their flush fasteners that they came out with last year.

The third part is that we have seen specific tools in which we can buy the US version at the same price or just slightly more than a decent imported version. Examples are Barco's 3lb hammer, Moody's scribes, CS Osborne's trowels, Magnolia's wire brushes, House Handle's replacement hammer handles, Pratt & Read's screwdrivers, etc. The list goes on. The price gap between quality import stuff and US made products is shrinking. We have replaced many items in the last few years, because it just didn't make sense to carry an import version of the same item that was only .25 or $1.00 less than the US version.

Are there counter trends to this? Of course. We are continuing to witness the merger of the "big guys", who see no value in making stuff in this country. But I just thought it might be nice to hear some good news about US manufacturing.

Jori

Harry J. Epstein Co.

 

[McFarmer]

The Internet will enable those smaller folks to sell to a much larger base. I prefer to buy local, but will support smaller operations from a distance if they have what I want.

 

[u118224]

Good information Jori. The new SK has pared back its product line as well, concentrating on US made items only. You can't be all things to all people.

 

[FJ 432]

I think that one of the biggest forces of free enterprise is that flexibility in our market allows trends to happen much faster and get the wheels turning the other way.

 

[Automatic Slim]

Good read, thx.


**edit** too political

 

[jsackin]

Peerless Chain is another company that is purging its imports. Also AMH, an import hoist company, is going to start using US made chain in their hoists.

Jori

Harry J. Epstein Co.

 

[Bull]

This is a very interesting read for me, and an encouraging one.

I will Sticky it if it seems in danger of sinking away. It's good to have positive news amid the doom and gloom we so often discuss.

 

[hifi_hokie]

Good information Jori. The new SK has pared back its product line as well, concentrating on US made items only. You can't be all things to all people.

Oddly enough, I saw my first SK truck today.

It's been encouraging to see what's starting to come back here - I've been researching home gym equipment, and with the rising popularity of CrossFit there definitely seems to be more of an emphasis on US-made equipment. You can outfit a pretty good gym using mostly stuff made in OH, SC, TN, TX, and others. These are mostly smaller outfits that likely wouldn't exist without the 'net for exposure.

Some items are still scarce or prohibitively expensive for domestic versions - York Barbell in York, PA used to be the supplier for powerlifting-grade weight plates, but they've moved manufacturing to China along with all but the very highest-end. It's like vacuum-tube manufacturing; somewhere along the line we decided that we weren't going to do that anymore.

 

[RCStocker]

You must be middle age or younger. You might just be paying attention more because of the bad economy. Last quarter saw an ever so slight of an increase in MFG. This quarter it is back down. There is no shift.

As for the start up businesses. They have been going on by the thousands sense the industrial revolution. Nothing new there. They are easier to find with the internet. I started 3 businesses in my garage over the years. I sold one of them and closed the other 2 because I made more money building custom homes for myself than I did making furniture. Glad you are paying attention but it is really nothing new. Having a grage is newer than people starting a business at home. There were stables before cars and the Garage is a fairly new concept. LOL

 

[hifi_hokie]

Last quarter saw an ever so slight of an increase in MFG. This quarter it is back down. There is no shift.

I'd be curious to know how the data is distributed between operations the size of Ford/GM and smaller shops. I have a feeling there are trends that are getting lost in seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[jsackin]

You must be middle age or younger.

Yes. 33.

You might just be paying attention more because of the bad economy. Last quarter saw an ever so slight of an increase in MFG. This quarter it is back down. There is no shift.

Could be true, but I'm talking about the small sliver of US manufacturing that I'm exposed to (hand tools). Might not be an overall trend. Just one that I see in my daily life as a tool seller.

As for the start up businesses. They have been going on by the thousands sense the industrial revolution. Nothing new there. They are easier to find with the internet. I started 3 businesses in my garage over the years. I sold one of them and closed the other 2 because I made more money building custom homes for myself than I did making furniture. Glad you are paying attention but it is really nothing new. Having a grage is newer than people starting a business at home. There were stables before cars and the Garage is a fairly new concept. LOL

You're correct it isn't new, but it is something that I think is largely overlooked. Just wanted to draw some attention to it.

 

[Hyster Gareth]

Thanks for the info Jori

 

[Hiball]

Thanks for the info Jori

+1 Appreciate the perspective from your end..

 

[wmartin]

The Internet will enable those smaller folks to sell to a much larger base. I prefer to buy local, but will support smaller operations from a distance if they have what I want.

Of course, the end game for a lot of this is also to remove as much of the factory->consumer chain as possible. You could easily see the death of both distributors and retailers as time goes on....perhaps there'll always be a place for Amazon as a kind of large catalog and $$$$ clearing house.

Honestly, I think I'm fine with this. I never really thought that retail stores provide enough value added for the high margins a lot of them charge.

 

[TheGr8erG00d]

It's a very interesting perspective and a refreshing one at that. Thanks for sharing!

 

[signcrafter]

It's nice to see smaller companies starting up and doing good. But most of these companies from what I have seen manufacture a specific product like you pointed out. I've been meaning to get one of those gator drill guides since I saw them last year, look really nice. But more and more of the common tools are getting harder and harder to find quality. Things like files and chisels and many other things that you used to easily be able to find a quality option at one of the local stores are disappearing.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Interesting post, however there is another side of the equation.

The majority of small businesses will fail. All kinds of reasons--under capitalization, government regulations, NIMBYs, insurance costs, co-operate taxes, labor costs, etc. The list goes on and on.

Then there's buyouts, mergers, acquisitions. Since this is a tool board.....

Moore drop forge=easco=danaher=apex=bain capital.

What's here today isn't necessarily here tomorrow and quite often if it is, it's in another form. Many reasons for this--The guy who started the business passed and his kids decided to cash it out. Original Investors may want to cash out. This list goes on and as well.

Personally any start up business I am weary of purchasing product. Will they be here to support their product in a couple years? Odds are no.

Then there is how to get the product to the end user? Can a small manufacturing firm exist solely on internet sales? Do they have the reserve cash to wait till they get to the top of a google search?

Other food for thought.. When I purchase something my primary motive other than to satisfy my needs, is making sure it benefits MYcommunity
Keeping this tool related, my purchases are at Sears, Lowes, Napa, the cornwell and snappy trucks. I'm not going "punish" those folks locally because someone way up the ladder decided to outsource a product. I'm more interested in those folks having jobs than some guy in Kansas. This is why I very seldom, almost never mail order stuff.

Lot's of components in this on going never ending topic on this forum. However the macro economic of it is a bit more complex than simply saying I'm buying/not buying a particular item because of where it is or isn't made,

 

[jsackin]

Interesting post, however there is another side of the equation.

The majority of small businesses will fail. All kinds of reasons--under capitalization, government regulations, NIMBYs, insurance costs, co-operate taxes, labor costs, etc. The list goes on and on.

Then there's buyouts, mergers, acquisitions. Since this is a tool board.....

Moore drop forge=easco=danaher=apex=bain capital.

What's here today isn't necessarily here tomorrow and quite often if it is, it's in another form. Many reasons for this--The guy who started the business passed and his kids decided to cash it out. Original Investors may want to cash out. This list goes on and as well.

Personally any start up business I am weary of purchasing product. Will they be here to support their product in a couple years? Odds are no.

I don't think this is true. In the last few years I think we've seen more small businesses go under than start up, but overall, I think the trend is that each year, more small businesses start up then fail.

http://www.sba.gov/sites/default/files/FAQ_Sept_2012.pdf

Then there is how to get the product to the end user? Can a small manufacturing firm exist solely on internet sales? Do they have the reserve cash to wait till they get to the top of a google search?

This is a good point, and one that each small manufacturer is dealing with. Traditionally you establish your product through a distribution network. As a manufacturer, you focus on "making" as opposed to "selling". While the interent has made it easier to sell direct, it can cut out the larger distribution networks, which sometimes ends up hurting.

Other food for thought.. When I purchase something my primary motive other than to satisfy my needs, is making sure it benefits MYcommunity
Keeping this tool related, my purchases are at Sears, Lowes, Napa, the cornwell and snappy trucks. I'm not going "punish" those folks locally because someone way up the ladder decided to outsource a product. I'm more interested in those folks having jobs than some guy in Kansas. This is why I very seldom, almost never mail order stuff.

Lot's of components in this on going never ending topic on this forum. However the macro economic of it is a bit more complex than simply saying I'm buying/not buying a particular item because of where it is or isn't made,

I really respect your commitment to your local tool sellers. We are a brick and mortar store, so we appreciate anyone that takes pride in their local community.

Jori

HJE

 

[kc-steve]

The Fourth Trend

Some people might be tired of hearing this from me, in fact Hiball and I have been discussing it this week. There is yet another aspect helping US manufacturers EXPORT their products. The value of the dollar is falling in relation to most other currencies. I'm speaking of the overall LONG-TERM trend. One exception to the rule is the Euro, the Euro is falling faster than the dollar.

We don't necessarily see the change here except in import costs, but it certainly raises US EXPORTS. Come to think of it, it also raises prices of commodities traded in global markets such as corn, wheat, yadda-yadda.

The falling dollar ALSO raises import prices to US consumers. This slows imports of tools here. Again one exception is the Euro and all the manufacturers based in Europe.

Why is the dollar falling? Many reasons actually. The rising money supply generated by QE3 to “spur” the economy, and the multiple scandals in the news recently are the two biggest reasons. The dollar’s value is actually based upon the belief that the USA has the economic resources to be viable in the future, and it is a safe haven from other currency devaluations, so an offsetting fall in the dollar’s value is the fact that the USA is one of the safest economies on the planet at this time.

Let’s hope that our free and competitive system wins out in the long run. The downside to the falling dollar though is imports such as oil and gasoline will continue to rise in price as the dollar falls in value.

It is complicated.

Steve

 

[jteck75]

Excellent read,I really enjoyed it! You made some excellent points,it was very well thought out!

 

[jsackin]

The Fourth Trend

Some people might be tired of hearing this from me, in fact Hiball and I have been discussing it this week. There is yet another aspect helping US manufacturers EXPORT their products. The value of the dollar is falling in relation to most other currencies. I'm speaking of the overall LONG-TERM trend. One exception to the rule is the Euro, the Euro is falling faster than the dollar.

This is another good point. Thanks to this and to the internet, we have seen our exports go up quite a bit. We send a lot of USA tools to places like Thailand, Singapore, Japan, Norway, Australia and Canada. Just got my first order from China a few weeks ago, so who knows.

Jori
HJE

 

[jmm]

Here's my take on one sector of American manufacturing. I work in a textile mill (woven upholstery, mostly) in a county that grew on the back of the industry (20 miles west of Gastonia, a mid-late 20th century giant in manufacturing). On my way to work I pass 3 huge mills that are boarded up. In this area, only the smaller mills with the lowest overhead survived. They are family owned...all the large companies that operated mills shut the doors when profits sank, but families had more incentive to keep the doors open. They gambled, and won.

Times have been lean for many, many years but over the past two or three years things have picked up. Once a 24 hour a day operation, the mill I work in scaled back to one shift about 8 years ago. 2 years ago a second shift was started back up. This year, we started running a split shift when orders pile up too high. Mills like the one I work in didn't survive because of low cost product -- it's still cheaper to manufacture and import cloth than it is to make it here. Boom times are gone, but the past several years we've turned a modest profit. Our edge over the cheaper competition is speed, flexibility and efficiency. Our fabric gets sold to furniture manufacturers domestically, several here in NC. So, whereas orders from overseas are made by the container load, we can fill orders for a few rolls of cloth, if necessary...and fast. And our QC is much better than foreign competition. That convenience has led to relationships with manufacturers who would give us more than the scraps the foreign companies couldn't fill, because they value our edge over the competition. These days, we have container sized orders, and as long as we do, there will be a need to keep on people like me who work on the machines.

This business model doesn't lend itself to the huge production numbers we used to do, but it sustains us and others like us in a global economy. Which, with some expected deviation, plays right into Jori's trend.

 

[rickhigginshtbr]

But more and more of the common tools are getting harder and harder to find quality. Things like files and chisels and many other things that you used to easily be able to find a quality option at one of the local stores are disappearing.

This, I believe, falls into a huge generation gap. I worked for Sears Hardware for nearly 3 years. Honestly, it was rare when I saw someone under the age of 40 buy a file. But younger people bought dremel accessories and grinding wheels all day long. My generation, not far behind Jori, is a complete throw away society. Whether it be from laziness, lack of education, available parts, etc, not 100% sure. But I can tell you when I was younger I tossed out 3 dremels when, now that I think about it, all they needed was new brushes.

But, back on topic. I would love to see a hand tool rebirth here in the US. New companies, new idea's, new competition.

 

[Outlawmws]

This, I believe, falls into a huge generation gap. I worked for Sears Hardware for nearly 3 years. Honestly, it was rare when I saw someone under the age of 40 buy a file. But younger people bought dremel accessories and grinding wheels all day long. My generation, not far behind Jori, is a complete throw away society. Whether it be from laziness, lack of education, available parts, etc, not 100% sure. But I can tell you when I was younger I tossed out 3 dremels when, now that I think about it, all they needed was new brushes.

But, back on topic. I would love to see a hand tool rebirth here in the US. New companies, new idea's, new competition.

Part of that Generation gap includes the idea that you HAVE to have a power tool, or don't do the job. Witness the recent thread here on Yankee drivers, and how they are "obsolete" they are not, but someone using great grandpas that desperately needs a few drops of oil, sees it as a completely unusable tool due to frustration.

My son keeps dragging out the impact just for one tire to come off, when the star wrench is blocking the way.. Sure, if you are doing tire's all day an Impact is great, but for four or five lug nuts, it's more work to get setup than simply grabbing the star wrench...

A small cut in a piece of wood he's better at, as he's beginning to see the value in a Japanese saw for a quick simple cut.

Light sanding? Sandpaper by hand works fine but almost everyone digs out the power sander.

Look at most of the tools advertizing, its all about the latest "trick" power tools that are available to do things "to make it easier" that mantra is over sold in some cases, maybe many...

I'm not against power tools; lord knows I have more than my share, but I also have and use the manual tools/methods/supplies handy and use what is good for the job at hand.

I think what has driven the point on overuse of power tools for me is the over reliance and over selling on battery tools. Many are NOT up to constant use, and a corded tools is better despite the hassle of a cord at times. Running out of battery juice is equally job impairing, maybe more so.

Sorry, but I fail to see much value in Battery skill saws, Saws all's, 4" disc grinders, and some other power hog tools, and a battery driven vacuum is just ridiculous IMO... Heck even the corded 12 V mini Car vacs are generally pure **** for usefulness.

/ rant!

 

[cheechi]

It's like vacuum-tube manufacturing; somewhere along the line we decided that we weren't going to do that anymore.

The whole topic can be boiled down to this. I especially agree with jmm as I know the furniture (and by extension, the upholstery industry) better than I know some others. Products that are not complicated to manufacture, and especially ones that are more man-hour intensive than skill intensive, are not going to come back to the US. We should have moved past the need for these jobs and filled others that are more significant. Ask any industry expert and they will tell you there is a shortage of good, properly trained and accreditied/certified auto mechanics, A&P, engineers, even OSHA (last time I was talking to one of the trainers) has more jobs than they have people. Kind of ironic considering the topic of discussion.

At a certain point, Windows or Mac OS became something that everyone now 'knows'. Before that, using the telephone or the TV remote became something everyone 'knows'. Today's US society there is nobody who can't figure out how to take a photo or video with any camera, it's become a kind of inherent knowledge everybody has.

Take that concept and put it in a factory setting. Mills are a perfect example. You can put someone with no education in a mill or clothing factory, and within a week they know the motions. Their work may take longer or be slightly less than perfect but really the learning curve is low. This is not to say that the skill is not significant for someone who is really good, don't misunderstand me. But on the scale from microwaving popcorn up to NASA engineer, a mill worker is on the lower end.

Once the machinery, tooling, training, all that is possible to move to another country and start up a whole new group of unskilled people turning them into mill workers, the value of the unskilled workers in the US is less. Sorry to have to say, but the way the US economy has gone, and primarily the technology available to us (more so than most other countries) we should have 'evolved' to an economy of skilled labor long before we now have.

In case you think that bit is too oversimplified, let me explain it further. We have the choice now between iOS, Android, Windows Phone, or Blackberry. We can choose to not buy Windows Phone at all, which we basically are, because we have choice. If you had the choice between 'dumb phone' and 'smart phone= Windows Phone' then its a great product right? That's the choice that's available to some of the population of some other countries. Because we choose what we like better, the new Blackberry may not really make it here but its pretty well a shoe-in in many other countries to be the dominant. We have choice. This is directly related to the earlier comment that we are a 'throw away generation' which I will own up to somewhat, I don't think I'm an example of it but I know I am part of my generation, however little I have in common with the rest. We choose the newer, shinier, better, because the choices are available. You think that if the same choice was available in the 60's & 70's that many of you or your parents would not have been the same? That's a tough argument, sorry.

So companies are choosing to produce items that involve low skill, such as hand tools, electric motors, metal & plastic chassis, etc overseas instead of domestically. That has not changed. What has changed in this context is that there are several niche products and smaller companies that are not. If Stanley/B&D decided to bring it all back to the US, I would be impressed and would buy more of their products. This likely won't happen, and I will continue to pick & choose what I buy from them.

I would like it if we were noticing the trend of Americans and others in 'first world' countries realizing the future of their economic opportunities is in skilled work. Not just service industries, but something that needs school. My parents told me their generation was the last one that could make it without more than a High School Diploma. I disagree. They should have realized that without education, they can't distinguish themselves. The US mill worker vs the foreign recently-hired-in-a-new-factory mill worker has little really they can argue for, when the accountants are in the room.

NC's economy was hurt before, and continue to be hurt more, than many other areas for this very reason. I see it first hand when furniture stores all over have closed, furniture manufacturers are either barely making it, or have had to branch out to other industries and in one case, have had to 'consign' skilled workers for other companies. I know a welder who used to make steel frame beds all day, and while you may be a great welder (congrats if you are) what he did was truly art. He's been a 'for hire' welder still working for the company for the past 10 years or so, and when they get orders for what he used to do, he does them.

By not realizing that simple products to manufacture such as vacuum tubes, circuit boards, now textiles and case goods would eventually be manufactured elsewhere, we caused the original problem. Innovative companies such as Jori mentioned, or in some cases companies who are making it despite the popular logic & trends are doing some good. The US will never go back to the levels of manufacturing pre-1990 let alone pre-1970. It's time for everyone to realize that and make sure this 'throw away' generation doesn't throw away educational opportunities that will be the way to right the ship.

 

[signcrafter]

This, I believe, falls into a huge generation gap. I worked for Sears Hardware for nearly 3 years. Honestly, it was rare when I saw someone under the age of 40 buy a file. But younger people bought dremel accessories and grinding wheels all day long. My generation, not far behind Jori, is a complete throw away society. Whether it be from laziness, lack of education, available parts, etc, not 100% sure. But I can tell you when I was younger I tossed out 3 dremels when, now that I think about it, all they needed was new brushes.

But, back on topic. I would love to see a hand tool rebirth here in the US. New companies, new idea's, new competition.

You're right about the power tools being the go to tools over hand tools and also being a throw away society. But I guess what I was trying to say is 10-15 years ago I could walk into most stores, home depot, menards, ace, true value, etc when I needed a tool. Most of the time there was a couple options at most stores, a more expensive quality one and a cheaper one. Using chisels as an example or drill bits, or just about anything, you could usually find a made in the USA option at atleast one of the local stores. They also had the "off" brands that were cheaper and lesser quality for the Joe that just needed a hammer to hang some pictures once a year. So if it was a tool I knew I would be using for years to come I would spend the extra buck and get the nicer quality one. Now it's harder and harder to find that quality choice. The stores have "stream lined" their product lines so most only carry one brand. That brand may or may not be quality.

I think it comes down to what you said, newer generations have become more and more throw away and want the most for the least, not taking into consideration value of things. Society just wants stuff now, and lots of stuff, and they want it for cheap, quality ends up being the factor that gets compromised. To me value is the most important factor in a purchase, getting the most for my money. When I am looking at different brands/models when buying something new I look at the price and then see what I'm getting for my money. I pick the option that gives me the most for my money. For tools sometimes that best value is snap on and sometimes it's harbor freight. I have a few snap on ratchets that to me are a good value because I use them all the time. The other week I bought a HF engine support and to me that was the best value. It is something I won't use much and is actually built pretty good. If I was a full time mechanic and used the support everyday I would have spent more. Value and return on investment are things not to many put at the top of their list when making a purchase.

I think a lot of us on this forum are the exception. We try to buy quality and will pay a little more for it because we understand it's a better value to buy one good ratchet then to buy half a dozen dollar store specials. Most of us also look at where things are made. I think most people just look for the box with the prettiest picture and lowest price tag. I would love to get back to the day where there is an option for everyone, a quality option for a few bucks more next to a cheaper option for those that just want the lowest price. Not sure if that will ever be the case again but I can dream!

 

[jmm]

Products that are not complicated to manufacture, and especially ones that are more man-hour intensive than skill intensive, are not going to come back to the US.

Very well said, cheechi. You knocked loose a few things in my mind that correlate:

The container load orders that upholstery mills can't count on anymore? They're not for us. Those orders are/were bread and butter products. Often, very simple patterns to run on a loom that, once set up, don't change. They become a standing order. A loom will run nothing but that pattern for a year or more, only stopping to add more yarn. We have TWO patterns that run like this, whereas we used to have 10-20. The only reason we have customers willing to make such an order with us, rather than overseas, is because they value the other, unique services we offer them: the orders limited to a few rolls of very intricate patterns (requiring lots of machine hours to run, and lots of man hours to make run). They're throwing us a bone to keep our doors open.

 

[diesel research]

I am a researcher, but also manufacture small production runs of specialty lubricant. about 3 55gallon drums per month, weighing out and dispensing raw material by hand.

these drums are then shipped to dubai, italy, and one us location for use in further manufacturing.

its all about lead time and product/inventory liability. i am using products of the finest qualities, but some are not available locally, others not available in the us. fine copper pigments requiring 2 month lead times from germany. copolymers only available in japan. this puts us in a bind. if we only order small amounts, we pay excessive shipping ratios. we also run the risk of running out before another shipment arrives. we also run the risk, such as the japan vendor, having a tsunami wipe out the plant, or separate plant explosion further complicating supply chain. If we stock pile raw material, we incur additional expense for storage AND exposed to additional risk of "spoilage", damage, or the whole lot being a "bad batch".

if we stockpile finished product, we also can easily be left holding the bag under a number of the same scenarios.

on our italy clients end, they too have learned lessons. with a 3 week transit time, they need to ensure enough product is on hand. on the other hand, our finished product has a shelf life of about 6 months in the drum, so if they stockpile, spoilage can be a real risk, and earlier this year occurred, as they had 4 extra drums sitting in inventory that "expired". they incurred additional expense of sending them back to be reanalyzed/qualified, remixed, and repackaged. there was a $16,000 risk attached to that excess inventory.

our us client can place an order, have it on the truck that afternoon, and have it in their possession in the morning, or at most 1 week.

on several occasions, they have requested odd size orders such as standard tubes, single drum, 5gal pail(s), or 1gal bucket(s)

each batch requires unique certification/qualification documents.

the search for local vendors is not merely patriotic or quality based, but also time/flexibility based.

 

[AmericanPreferred]

The letters USA will sell me a tool quicker than anything. I am buying them like a collector now(at bargain basement prices), before they go the way of the refillable soda bottle. I am not optimistic that tool mfg jobs will come back, the industry is pretty automated, not that labor intensive, although that labor is probably organized here. Transportation costs are lower now as ships are bigger, and containers optimized. Ever wonder what goes back in all those containers? I suspect scrap metal, and air mainly. I remember when Japanese made tools drew scorn, and Taiwan laughter, not anymore. With the internet becoming more the marketplace for the younger folks, and being able to compare prices worldwide in just a few moments, the retailers are next in line to be outmoded. Just look at how popular the Hot Deals section of this site is, not to mention slick deals type sites. I have been watching the "Hot Deals" forum lately, there is always someone bashing Sears, (people have bashed Sears as long as I can remember) yet they stay near the top, always have a deal. Their online site is not always accurate, but they have a strong presence, and middle-manning parts for any manufacturer's appliance, mower, tv ect. is brilliant. Most of us these days can google our problems, find the solutions, and now parts, maybe even a video, and save that service call, all without leaving the house. It is no accident that the postal service's thread to hang onto is package delivery. I wish I was more optimistic, and hope I am wrong, but for now I am going to keep collecting USA tools. If I had the money I would start a package delivery service, and it pains me to say that.

 

[diesel research]

I am not optimistic that tool mfg jobs will come back, the industry is pretty automated, not that labor intensive, although that labor is probably organized here. Transportation costs are lower now as ships are bigger, and containers optimized.

1. "pretty automated" means less labor there or here either 1
2. while not all manufacturing here is "organized", you can certainly bet the longshoremen are. you can almost imagine what happens when they strike and disrupt supply chain, while local vendors are capable of delivering.
3. while transport is more "efficient", it is not free, although overseas transport is not a factor in local production. both will incur local/interstate transport costs.

what you have unknowingly done, is spelled out the case that many businesses cite as reasons they backshored.

what was not spelled out above, was inventory liability incurred with stockpiling. hand tools dont readily "expire" although there are certainly risks in shipping and storage. there are also great expenses incurred in massive warehousing (as opposed to your local mfg holding that responsibility) there are other lead time risks associated with updates, recalls, and new products.

 

[AmericanPreferred]

It seems that the Stanley works, and Danaher just dump their USA made offerings as a brand is offshored. USA Blackhawk was in all the surplus stores, and all over ebay a couple of years ago for cheap. It is happening with the Allen, and Kolbalt brands now. I wonder if they are gutting the factories, and warehouses to make room for shipping containers, as not to be affected if the longshoremen strike. I also believe most steel workers are organized.

 

[diesel research]

Stanley has massive amounts of US manufacturing in texas, under the name "proto". heard of them?

apex, bain, who ever the hell they are called this week, still maintain quite the production line in arkansas and other locations.

what you are seeing is retail level, where sellers choose which lines to carry, based on the price point of their customers. sears/ace/lowes/hd customers are mostly cheap and warranty centered, so they cater to their customers needs.

neither "danaher" nor stanley, dumped their USA lineup. retailers chose to persue other cheaper options that match their customer base.

look in any industrial supply store, and the us equivalents are still sold, as their is still a market for them.

 

[AmericanPreferred]

You must have missed the part when I said "brand is offshored". We all know they have several brands in their line up.

 

[diesel research]

sears, lowes, home depot own the brands they have private labelled. lowes for example, changed to a different manufacturer. went from williams to danaher/apex to steelmen (imported). sears too, is changing vendors or price points under the name they own.

its all a paper shuffling name change.

blackhawk is still predominantly USA except some things that were never or not for a long time, produced here.

 

[Jack Burton]

I too will spend double to get an American made item in most cases. Tools, clothing, whatever it may be.

One monetary advantage for American manufacturers is they don't need to stock a whole bunch of imported stuff and eat up overhead paying for the shelf space. Lead times for Chinese goods can also be ridiculous sometimes.

Of course, that can work against American manufacturers when it comes to big items like machinery. Building numerous large machines to maintain stock can cut a companies throat when the enterprising importer can just leave foreign machines in port and pay the duty when an order is placed 1 by 1.

Some of my companies products that are manufactured in the US are actually sold at cost or even a slight loss in order to keep the distributors buying our other more profitable goods, namely imported ****. The bottom line is all that matters in the end. I fear the affordable health care scam will only make matters worse.

 

[diesel research]

I fear the affordable health care scam will only make matters worse.

$2,000/yr penalty is way cheaper than the $1,000-$2,000 per month premium that many employers pay per person.

 

[SweetD]

I too will spend double to get an American made item in most cases. Tools, clothing, whatever it may be.

My greatest fear is that for every one of you (and me), there are at least 100 people that just don't give a ****.

I mean, look at the people walking around your local Walmart.

Dave

 

[AmericanPreferred]

All the big boxes DR mentioned, even Walmart once sold American made hand tools (I still have some). Only one remains and they seem to be phasing them out slowly. I believe there will always be American tools available to professionals, I am not sure they will always be available to the average consumer at 10am on a Saturday morning. Sadly the trend seems apparent to me. I haven't seen USA on a Blackhawk ratchet since they started putting "by Proto" on the package.

 

[diesel research]

All the big boxes DR mentioned, even Walmart once sold American made hand tools (I still have some). Only one remains and they seem to be phasing them out slowly. I believe there will always be American tools available to professionals, I am not sure they will always be available to the average consumer at 10am on a Saturday morning. Sadly the trend seems apparent to me. I haven't seen USA on a Blackhawk ratchet since they started putting "by Proto" on the package.

walmart still sells american channellocks.

amateurs can walk into those professional quality stores at 10am on saturday.

blackhawk still has plenty of usa sockets.

all those other brands are owned by retail stores, not manufacturers.

it's not all doom and gloom. perhaps the mall/grocery store/appliance store, never should have been a place to buy tools...

 

[cheechi]

If I only buy food & misc clothes at wal mart, and it's cheaper for the same item, 1 for 1, or for the same type item wal mart sells a bigger version (the family size white cheddar cheez-its, i love that flavor) than at the grocery store, do I count as one of those people?

Wal-mart's cheap button down shirts are nicer than sears' cheap button down shirts. both made in china, so if wal mart beats them on price i will go there for that item. I hate going there, i hate the wal-martians, but unless k-mart has dickies on 40% sale, wal mart is the best value option for me so I go when i need a new or run out of cheez its.

I think this is exactly what diesel is saying. speaking of apples-to-apples, china lowe's, china HD, and china sears, all those tools are not equal. The prices however are basically equal. If anything, sears is more overly proud than the others of their china tools. So if you are going to put all the blame on the parent company without regard to what the retailer is choosing, I agree that's unfair.