Post hole idea

[Mattlt]

You could also fasten another board to the side of your post below ground level, as this company does. They've been in this business for over 50 years so they must be doing something right

http://lesterbuildings.com/Why-Lester/Materials/Foundations/

 

[ErickForest]

You can go the other route and not dig any holes at all.

http://www.pinfoundations.com/

A lot of people are using these in the area for deck footings. We have a high water table with lots of clay. No heaving in the winter.

 

[Twiggss]

You can go the other route and not dig any holes at all.

http://www.pinfoundations.com/

A lot of people are using these in the area for deck footings. We have a high water table with lots of clay. No heaving in the winter.

neat

 

[jameswood]

You can go the other route and not dig any holes at all.

http://www.pinfoundations.com/

A lot of people are using these in the area for deck footings. We have a high water table with lots of clay. No heaving in the winter.

Interesting, but too bad so pricey ($115.00ea). Apparently been around 10 years or so but I haven't heard about them before and never seen them used myself.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

You could also fasten another board to the side of your post below ground level, as this company does. They've been in this business for over 50 years so they must be doing something right

http://lesterbuildings.com/Why-Lester/Materials/Foundations/

When I set the poles for my tractor shed, I did the "punch pad" and lags with a "collar" like they show....well I did for all but 2 holes which each had boulders the size of a Prius centered right where the post needed to be. I wasn't about to hire and excavator to dig 'em out for a shed, so those 2 got concrete footings poured around them and then the post set on the top with a bracket....we'll see if it works.....

 

[James E]

I do like the Indians did. I put a dead fish in the hole, then set the pole. By the fall, I've got several more fence poles growing out of the hole. Haven't had to buy one from a store in years.

Funny how codes vary from place to place. When I rebuilt my deck in NC, code stated that the post could be set on 4x8x12 solid block, laid on the flat, two layers thick, so many inches below grade. No concrete required.

 

[tomsmith]

I can't tell if you're kidding or not..

 

[OldNeons]

Not for a fence, but if I were doing a pole building I'd definitely use these:

Www.permacolumn.com

You can try all these different methods, but eventually wood in the earth is going to decay!

 

[NewShockerGuy]

I use a digging bar to make the hole. The post hole digger is to remove the loosened material. I widen the hole at the bottom into a bell shape. Fill the bottom of the hole with gravel and insert the post. I fill the hole with mixed concrete and crown the top so water will run away from the post.

It is important to put gravel in the bottom of the hole so water will drain away from the base of the post. If the base of the post is set in concrete, water will seep down between the post and concrete and never drain; think miniature swimming pool. The post will rot away in a short time.

Some use nails in the bottom of the post to anchor it into the concrete. This will make removal more difficult. I have pulled a post out of a concrete base and driven another down into the same hole before. This is useful if a post splits or badly warps.

Super glad I found this older thread.

Your picture is great. I had plans on using existing 4x4 posts to make a double gate in the back of my yard...after inspecting the posts I realized they were fine to look at but structurally they would break as they were already cracked in places from lack of care. I have read the same thing about putting gravel at the bottom of the hole. I have two bags of pea gravel, would that be OK to use? Or do I need to buy the bigger bag of normal looking gravel (one that would be use on a loose driveway)?

One note as well I keep hearing and seeing mixed reviews on concrete. I was planning on getting two bags of the quickrete dry post mix at HD...and there are many videos on YouTube that show the manufacture pouring the dry mix in, then pouring water, and then taking rebar and poking it making sure the water goes through .... is this recommended or simply put the dry concrete mix in, pour water and then make sure post is level/plum and go to the next post?

Thanks,
-Nigel

 

[58Yeoman]

I just put in more split rail fence this week. I dig a 2' hole, pour a bit of pea gravel in the bottom, set the post and fill the hole with the dirt/clay that I've dug out. I have a 5' heavy railroad wrench/prybar that I tamp the soil with, add more and tamp again. None of my posts have ever heaved up. I had to remove one end post to put in a line post, and I just rocked it back and forth, then pulled it out. Try doing that with concrete.

 

[jdieter]

I've got a paver patio with an L-shaped outside bar. The corner of the bar is a 6x6 post setting on a concrete pier that supports a deck above. The rest of the bar is supported by 4x4's in dirt sunk below my area's 24" frost line. Over the last 2 years the bar has heaved a couple of inches. The house is built into a hillside and the patio is off a walkout basement. At the top of hill above house is a small pond that is fed from several natural springs and has 1.5" plastic line gravity feeding a waterfall just off the side of the bar with a small brook going along the edge of the patio finally going to a creek farther down the hill. last fall I sunk two test holes with 3" pipe down 30" at each end of the bar with 6" of pea gravel at the bottom and the pipes encased in pea gravel up to the underside of the patio pavers and topped the test holes off with concrete to seal from surface water and match the pavers finished height. The ground water height in the test pipe closest to the water fall had 20" standing water. the test pipe about 10 feet away had 3" standing water. I shut down the gravity feed pipe/waterfall last fall and have been monitoring the two test wells through the fall-winter-spring. The test pipe closest to the now dry water fall/brook has consistently had 8" standing water and the pipe farther away has 15" standing water.
The waterfall and brook were built in the 60's with no liner so they leak. It would be a major undertaking to tear everything out add a liner and rebuild, so that's not gonna happen. The 6x6 corner post is set on a 10" concrete pier that sets on a cookie 2' diameter, 12" thick, 30" below grade at the top(frost depth for my area is 24"). This summer I'm replacing the paver patio with stamped concrete, and the "L" shaped bar will come out and get rebuilt after the patio is competed. My plan is to add drainage below the frost line paralleling the waterfall/brook and the bar as well as some fingers going across the patio day-lighting everything on down the hill below the patio.
So finally with this extremely long post will this solve my frost heave issue. I did the bar and corner post about 15 years ago and it's only the previous two severe winters that it's heaved.

 

[drivesitfar]

K54: if I recall correctly you like your concrete guy and he might own a working back hoe? that said why not put a mini foundation under the fence line that gives you an edge you don't need to weed and use these to mount the posts?

I made approximately 3x3 foot by 8 inch deep foundations on the four corners of my pergola and used these strong tie or simpson holders to bolt my cedar 6 x 6's that are 8 foot tall and it hasn't moved in 4 years. I know I don't have the soil you have, but if your concrete guy gives you a good price that might be a great option for you.

or CNC's advice to put a couple pipes through the posts each direction sounds like it will work nicely so you don't have to re do your fence in a few years.

also make sure you pick a good stain and get good lumber or the fence will look old pretty quickly. I need to restain my pergola in a few weeks and will post another picture after I do so if you would like me to.

also I was told that cedar shouldn't be buried so I used these to keep the posts above ground. then I hear from my 90+ year old farmers that buried their cedar fence posts 50-70 years ago and they are still standing straight. I think keeping the wood out of the soil is a good idea personally so i'm sticking with that.

 

[sberry]

power poles are installed big end down, dirt wedges them in, pilings get little end down so it drives in with load.

 

[jdieter]

I've got a paver patio with an L-shaped outside bar. The corner of the bar is a 6x6 post setting on a concrete pier that supports a deck above. The rest of the bar is supported by 4x4's in dirt sunk below my area's 24" frost line. Over the last 2 years the bar has heaved a couple of inches. The house is built into a hillside and the patio is off a walkout basement. At the top of hill above house is a small pond that is fed from several natural springs and has 1.5" plastic line gravity feeding a waterfall just off the side of the bar with a small brook going along the edge of the patio finally going to a creek farther down the hill. last fall I sunk two test holes with 3" pipe down 30" at each end of the bar with 6" of pea gravel at the bottom and the pipes encased in pea gravel up to the underside of the patio pavers and topped the test holes off with concrete to seal from surface water and match the pavers finished height. The ground water height in the test pipe closest to the water fall had 20" standing water. the test pipe about 10 feet away had 3" standing water. I shut down the gravity feed pipe/waterfall last fall and have been monitoring the two test wells through the fall-winter-spring. The test pipe closest to the now dry water fall/brook has consistently had 8" standing water and the pipe farther away has 15" standing water.
The waterfall and brook were built in the 60's with no liner so they leak. It would be a major undertaking to tear everything out add a liner and rebuild, so that's not gonna happen. The 6x6 corner post is set on a 10" concrete pier that sets on a cookie 2' diameter, 12" thick, 30" below grade at the top(frost depth for my area is 24"). This summer I'm replacing the paver patio with stamped concrete, and the "L" shaped bar will come out and get rebuilt after the patio is competed. My plan is to add drainage below the frost line paralleling the waterfall/brook and the bar as well as some fingers going across the patio day-lighting everything on down the hill below the patio.
So finally with this extremely long post will this solve my frost heave issue. I did the bar and corner post about 15 years ago and it's only the previous two severe winters that it's heaved.

Oops, should have prefaced my post with, "not trying to hijack the thread, but my experience with frost heave might be helpful to the OP as well as my tentative solution to it" sorry about that

 

[AndrewDouglasBird]

Around here (Oregon), you'll find fences that the posts were only installed 2ft. below the surface (8ft 4x4, 6ft tall fence). Most of them you can grab the post with one hand and move it back and forth several inches. 4ft. deep is minimum really, going back to that frost heave depth thing.