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Post Recession Shop Rehabilitation Project

shortykorte

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Wow looking great. Makes me want to tear apart my old DP but I have to stay focused on getting MaxJax operational. :thumbup:

At least I have some tips on paint stripping when I do start the project.
 
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NedNorton

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No worries, Boys! Talk amongst yourselves. :lol_hitti

The wife and I are just getting back from a quick trip to Yellowstone. What a cool place!







Hope to get back at the mill this week...

Cheers,
Chris
 

rmack898

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Chris,
I just spent 2 days reading this from the start. You've made yourself a great shop space and I love your attention to detail.
Jackson is a lucky dog to have adopted you.
My shop is all old machines that I have restored along with a few machines I have restored for others. I have used quite a few paints on machine tools and I've gotten the best result from Sherwin Williams industrial enamel HS. It's a hard finish that holds up great to oils and coolants. I'll also throw in my vote for some shade of green.

Here's a pic of one of my lathes using this paint (it's green)

I look forward to seeing how the FJ comes out, I'm sure it will be over the top like the rest of your work.
 

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NedNorton

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1/2 Cup- Yellowstone is a great place!

Mac (rmac898) - Thanks for making it through the entire thread! I'm glad that you are enjoying it and I appreciate the kind words. Wow! That Pacemaker looks incredible and do I spot a Monarch 10ee in the back?! :bowdown: Any more detailed shots of the machines?

Can you tell me a little more about the Sherwin Williams paint? Can it be tinted like regular automotive stuff? Can you tell me what primer you used under it? I am getting to the point of shooting some epoxy 2k primer on the base and knee and am still mulling over what to use.

Thanks,
Chris
 
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rmack898

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Chris, the Sherwin Williams paint comes from their marine and industrial coatings division. I used part #6405-17793, which is a deep tint base that they can make in any color you want. I gave them a sample of a color I wanted for the pacemaker and they matched it perfectly.

As for primers, I have used the standard white rustoleum primer and Majic high solids primer from Tractor Supply and had great results with both. If you plan on using epoxy primer that should be better yet. I paint most of my machines with a high quality natural bristle brush, I have sprayed a few but unless you have a lot of parts ready for paint at the same time it's not worth the hassle of sparaying when I can get just as good a finish with a brush. As always, preparation is 90% of a good paint job.

I don't want to hijack your thread with my machines, so I'll just put up a few pics. Good eyes, there is a 10EE behind the pacemaker. Here is also a pic of the pacemaker tailstock (it's brush painted). Here is also a pic of a Burke #4 that I did, also brush painted and also green.

I look forward to seeing your Index come together, Index is a great mill.
 

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NedNorton

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Mac (mack989) - The machines look great! You got me thinking a lot about finishes for the Index mill. I called our local Sherwin Williams commercial store to get pricing and they said that the the HS enamel you recommended was a good durable choice. But, when I said I wasn't keen on brushing (I have never gotten good results with a brush-Operator Error-) he recommended the Prolane B line since the Industrial Enamel isn't rated for HVLP. $100 in materials for the Industrial Enamel HS... $350 for the Prolane B. :wtf: From the quick late night search I did, the folks on PracticalMachinist seem to have had good luck with both. The guys on PM aren't known for pulling punches on anything or anyone so it sounds like either will work out well. I do want to shoot it if possible due to the afore mentioned brushing disability. In any event, I still have a ton of prep to do before I even think about putting down the primer. There is a bunch of quality time in my future consisting of Evercoat Rage Gold and sanding blocks to smooth out the castings. How smooth I get them may well determine if I have to worry about a few small brush strokes.

Again Mac, thanks for the help. I appreciate it a lot.

Cheers,
Chris
 

rmack898

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Chris,
Prolane B is a great choice, it's a little bit more pricey but I think you will like it.
Before you use the evercoat rage, check out a product called "Icing", it mixes very thin and sands extremely easy.
 
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NedNorton

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Mac (rmack989) - I will check it out. The castings have a lot of big irregularities so I think I may be stuck using regular filler then finishing up with glazing putty. I was going to use Metal Glaze but now I may try Icing.

Thanks again for all the help.

Cheers,
Chris
 
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NedNorton

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Back to the Kahiltna, the long slow slog on the glacier with a big pack and sled.
(Climbing reference from Denali incase anyone was thinking, “What the hell is all that about?”:headscrat)

Work, paying work, has picked up. So that, mixed with other house projects, has slowed the already slow progress on the mill. I’m back to the glacier pace. :dunno:

I started to take the quill power-feed down. It, like every other piece of this machine, looks like it hadn’t been touched for a long time.



After removing the tapered pin, and couple of light hits with a 3oz hammer, things start to come apart on the assembly.





Some of the castings had been only roughly finished from the factory.


All cleaned up and polished… (The castings for these small parts are pretty rough so I did the best I could without removing too much material.)


On the completed table…


Gear before…


Cleaned up…


The completed table is filling up (slowly)…


I’ve turned my attention to the knee wheel. Man, due to it’s size, it’s taking a long time. I’m about ½ through and 3 hours in. :wtf:


After all the back and forth with Mac about finish, I may order up some epoxy primer / filler and mix in some work on the castings just to break-up the cleaning and polishing and save my sanity.

Thanks folks for checking in and following along. I appreciate it!

Cheers,
Chris
 
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Prometheus

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Mac (mack989) - The machines look great! You got me thinking a lot about finishes for the Index mill. I called our local Sherwin Williams commercial store to get pricing and they said that the the HS enamel you recommended was a good durable choice. But, when I said I wasn't keen on brushing (I have never gotten good results with a brush-Operator Error-) he recommended the Prolane B line since the Industrial Enamel isn't rated for HVLP. $100 in materials for the Industrial Enamel HS... $350 for the Prolane B. :wtf: From the quick late night search I did, the folks on PracticalMachinist seem to have had good luck with both. The guys on PM aren't known for pulling punches on anything or anyone so it sounds like either will work out well. I do want to shoot it if possible due to the afore mentioned brushing disability. In any event, I still have a ton of prep to do before I even think about putting down the primer. There is a bunch of quality time in my future consisting of Evercoat Rage Gold and sanding blocks to smooth out the castings. How smooth I get them may well determine if I have to worry about a few small brush strokes.

Again Mac, thanks for the help. I appreciate it a lot.

Cheers,
Chris

Chris,

I've successfully sprayed the SW Industrial Enamel and the Industrial Enamel HS. You just have to thin the HS more than the older version. I know I can still get the regular Industrial Enamel here, but it has been phased out in some states due to the VOC regulations. I wouldn't be surprised if Colorado has lower limits so you can't get the regular Industrial Enamel. Both work equally well and spray basically the same if thinned to the same point. I use the Kem Kromic primer under the Industrial enamel and it works great (even out of a cheapo HF purple gun). Dries really quick and hard. Sands beautifully too if you need to touch up some runs/drips/inconsistencies. My local SW Industrial guys said the epoxy primer would probably be a step up in protection, but for home or light industrial use they said the Kem Kromic would be just as good and a lot cheaper.

This was done with that paint combo:
file.php

file.php


Doing 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of the industrial enamel really smooths out the "regular" cast iron texture. It is still noticeable, but I liken it to when you us a roller to paint walls - a little bit of a bumpy texture, but nothing too distracting. I kind of like it actually, reminds me what is really under the paint. Obviously won't hide any big casting marks or anything, but hides more than you would expect. Hope that helps a little bit.

-Adrian
 

DalyArcher

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Loving this thread! Will certainly be borrowing a few ideas like the cut-off bin and maybe the sheet good storage.

My dad is a mechanic and I turned wrenches from the time I could walk until I discovered cabinet making. No more of that icky, greasy stuff for this cowboy! I have a modest 20 x 24 shop under construction right now. I may bring the lawnmower in occasionally to sharpen blades or some such small project, but other than that it is conceived and designed for woodwork only (and to hang and butcher the occasional moose if I should be so lucky).

I am insanely envious of your dust collector set-up! Spectacular job on that one. Keep the inspiration coming.
 
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NedNorton

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Lyndon - I hope I remember how to get her back together too! I took a lot of pictures during the disassembly and tagged/bagged the small parts. Wells-Index is still in business and still supports the machine, if you can believe that! The nuts on the x and y axis are a little worn and they will make replacements from the old drawings, for a price. There is a guy on homeshopmachinist.com that made holders for standard Acme inserts for his Model 40 and was nice enough to share the information. I think I'm going that route.

When it comes to reassembly, I got copies of the build drawings from Wells-Index and they should come in handy to fill in some of the questions from my pictures.

Thanks for checking in Lyndon, always a pleasure to hear from you.:beer:

Adrian (Prometheus) - The old Delta RA looks great. How much did you thin the paint? Do you remember the ratio by any chance? Also, what kind of dry time does it require? The Polane B is great stuff but super toxic. The HS Enamel is much less so. I'm still going back and fourth between the two products. I only want to do this once (to this machine anyway). Feel free to post a few more detailed shots, It would be great to see them.:thumbup:

tweidman - Thanks. I'm hoping that it runs as good as it will look. Even after the repaint and reassembly is done, there is still the VFD and DRO install to worry about. My goal is to have it done and running by December. Probably just as I get ready to plug it in/take the first cut, a well tooled Van Norman #16 (Great old horizontal and vertical mill combo) will come up on Craig's List near-by. I'm sure it will be a "deal" meaning it will need the same treatment that the Index is getting. The merry-go-round of shop projects and tools will continue until I am unable to ride the ride. :willy_nil

DalyArcher - Borrow away! I keep telling folks that if they end up building any of the stuff here to post up or link to their build thread. I'm super excited to see what other guys come up with. The DC system is one of the projects that I had a blast doing and every time I go to make a cut on the TS and the collector turns on by the power sensing relay, I'm smiling like a kid on the first day of summer.

Thanks everyone for all the good words. Knowing that some people are reading along keeps the motivation up. :rocker:

Cheers,
Chris
 
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Prometheus

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snip
Adrian (Prometheus) - The old Delta RA looks great. How much did you thin the paint? Do you remember the ratio by any chance? Also, what kind of dry time does it require? The Polane B is great stuff but super toxic. The HS Enamel is much less so. I'm still going back and fourth between the two products. I only want to do this once (to this machine anyway). Feel free to post a few more detailed shots, It would be great to see them!
snip

Chris,

I vaguely remember thinning the regular Industrial Enamel about 25% (usually 4 to 1 ratio eyeballed). I don't remember the exact ratio for the HS, but it was probably somewhere closer to 40%. It all depends on your gun and what size nozzle you have too. If I remember correctly mine has a 0.8mm nozzle and those ratios worked ok. I don't exactly measure my mix, I just get it close and then adjust the air and liquid volumes until I get a good pattern. You can see in the pic below a chunk of plywood with paper on it I used to test my patterns.

Dry time is a bit odd because it is an enamel paint. Recoat time is 8-12 hours, but cure is 7 days. I typically do one coat in the AM and one late in the evening or one coat per day. 2 coats is typically all I do unless I screw something up (which happens more often than I like to admit) and I have to do some sanding or touchup work. I also like to let the parts at least partly cure before I reassemble. They hang out like this for a couple days:

file.php


I've been really happy with everything I've painted with the Industrial Enamel, but I've also learned to not rush it. It's not nearly as quick to cure as any of the catalyzed finishes, so you're going to have more time between coats and longer cure times. I'm ok with that trade off because I'm just doing this for fun, not to make money and I don't have to worry about mixing exact ratios of hardener to paint. It's really pretty easy, which I like.

The SW Data sheet for the regular Industrial Enamel is Here. The HS sheet is Here. The HS has even longer recoat and cure times according to the data sheet, but if you thin them to the same point they should have equivalent recoat and cure times. Safest play would be to just wait 24 hours between coats, then you're good regardless, but again that just means more time waiting.

As I said, I've been really happy with the SW Industrial Enamel. I've had it on the drill press above for 3-4 years now, it gets used all the time and paint still looks good. There are a couple scuffs but nothing down to bare metal. If anything I need to repolish the column, quill, and ship's wheel handles....

As far as the RAS, I picked it up a couple years ago at an auction for less than $40. I redid it and gave it to my dad for Father's Day. I don't have many good pictures of it, just a couple to show the before and after. I did a short thread on it over on OWWM. It's a great little saw.

Hope all that helps you decide somewhat.

-Adrian
 
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NedNorton

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Adrian (Prometheus) – Thank you for the clarification. I’m still on the fence about what I’m going to use on the mill. It is between the Industrial Enamel and the Polane B. The dry time doesn’t really worry me at all. I’ve been working on this project for a month now and I can’t imagine the additional dry-time “slowing” me up. The lack of isocyanides is a huge plus. I’m guessing I’ll make the decision just before heading out to order the paint. – Thanks again for all the additional info.

Clean, polish and repeat (plus order a few replacement bearings).

This weekend my wife and I worked outside in the yard (loose term, “yard” not “work”- plenty of that to go around) so not a lot got done on the mill. This seems to be a forming trend, unfortunately. I have managed to sneak a few hours here and there. Most of the time was spent cleaning and polishing up steel shafts on the power-feed and getting the knee handle finished. Here are a few of the detail shots.

Power feed shaft before and after…




This goes to the quill power-feed… (Check out the grease on that gear :eyecrazy:)


I used the shaft as an arbor so I could clean up the pulley…


Tore into the intermediate pulley set-up by the motor…


Ugh? Are bearing supposed to make that grinding noise? :headscrat (Ordered a few new SKF’s. This time we are going with some of the sealed variety.)




Some of the “fruits” of the last couple of nights…


The completed table as it sits now. (Who would have thought a machine to cut metal took so many parts? :headscrat)


I guess I’m making progress. The completed table did look like this not too long ago.


For everyone who is getting tired of seeing, as I am of doing, the never ending “Cleaning and polishing of mill parts” posts, relief is on the way. I ordered the filler and the epoxy primer so the real exciting part is yet to come.

What promises to be the never ending and intellectually riveting..

Wait for it…
Wait for it…

“Body filler and sanding” posts!” I know that I’m excited. :rocker:

Side Note- If you are really tired of reading the "Cleaning and polishing mill parts" posts PM me and you can come over and help finish up the last of them. Just kidding. I think. :lol:

You know when a project has gone on a little too long when you are pining for the good old days of wire wheeling and grinding an old Land Cruiser frame. :rolleyes:

Whatever. It beats sanding drywall! :D

Thanks, as always, for reading the ramblings.

Cheers,
Chris
 

longlivepunk

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Hahaha great post, Chris! Progress may seem slow to you, but for me that would be nearing light-speed! Things are looking good!

-Eric

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bj383ss

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Looking good as usual Chris. Progress is good even if it may seem boring at times. I am sure people are tired of looking at my months long shed build.
HA.

Bret
 

rmack898

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Chris,
before you know it, you will have a pile of cleaned, painted, polished, and new looking parts that will come together overnight to make a brand new Index mill. You'll be making chips before you know it and I'll be following along.
 

Huxley

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Have you invested in an EXL wheel yet? Red Leader & others swear by it. Brought to you by 3M - they make a few useful items.
 
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NedNorton

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FANTM58 - Colorado is a wonderful place. We are up here in the mountains west of Boulder.

Eric (longlivepunk) - Thanks for good words. It's getting there. I'm already dreaming about what to make with it first.

Bret (bj383ss) - Your shed is moving along way faster than the mill. I'm enjoying seeing the shed come together and it makes me want to put on the tool bags on and get working. Plus, the truck updates are great!

Mac (rmack898) - I appreciate the continued council on paint. I couldn't sleep last night and was reading through a few forums and found your Burke #4 restoration thread on hobby-machinist. All I have to say is, WOW! :bowdown:

That effort makes my little clean and repaint look easy. I'm hoping that once this is done, my shop will have the capacity to build parts for the next machine rebuild. You got me looking for a #4.

If anyone is reading along, and enjoying the Index work, you really should check out Mac's thread on his Burke. Here is the link: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/burke-4-restoration-by-rmack898.21127/

Don (dhubbard422) - I hope it runs! :lol_hitti Once the DRO and VFD's are in, it should do nicely. Part of me, mostly when I'm scraping layers of paint, thinks it may have been easier to just get a nice clean machine from the start. Then I come back to reality and realize that almost all the machines in the price I want to pay would need a similar going over. Maybe not as much as the Model 40, but still would need some work. How is the shop coming along? Have you figured out the next moto project yet? Weather here in the hills is prime riding weather. 90 plus in Boulder but in the 70's up here. The Norton has been coming out more and more!

Huxley - Yes... I have an EXL wheel. I'm trying to wire wheel/sand as little as possible. My guess is that the paint contains copious amounts of lead so putting parts in the tank and scraping it off with a plastic putty knife keeps the lead dust to a minimum.

Thanks folks for checking in and for all the encouragement.

Cheers,
Chris
 
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NedNorton

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Eric (longlivepunk)- I thought you would like to see Mac's work. He sets a high bar, for sure.

PAINT!!!!! Not a lot of paint but, paint none the less! (That only took 6 weeks :dunno:)

I thought I would test something out. The inside of the gears and pulleys weren't painted and seemed a bit unfinished. I went on Amazon and had some Valspar Tractor paint and primer sent out. You have to love 2-day shipping.

This is the quill power feed pulley. The casting is a little rough but I'm giving it a go anyway.

Taped up and ready to paint... (After scrubbing off 70 years of grime)


A little red oxide primer...


It looks like it should, now. The primer and enamel really help fill in some of the casting flaws. I really like this stuff it has a good gloss These pictures are after a few hours of dry time.


Back on the shaft with the gear. The current bearing is silky smooth and by it's design, was replaced somewhere along the way (Originals were just shielded and this one is sealed too).


Before putting the pulley on the shaft I faced the end of the shaft and then polished it up.


The body filler came today too but since the wife and I are going rafting this weekend, it will have to wait until next week. I can't wait to get to working on the main castings and getting them filled, sanded and primed.

Since I'm using rattle cans for the gears and pulleys, I'll work on painting the rest of the gears when I need a break from sanding.

Thanks guys for checking in.

Cheers,
Chris
 
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don long

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Hi Chris
Just checking in.
I'm happy to read that casting marks bother you as much as they do me
The polished stuff looks great. Makes me want to go back out to the garage but its too hot 105 today.
Enjoy the rafting trip

Don
 

dhubbard422

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FANTM58 - Colorado is a wonderful place. We are up here in the mountains west of Boulder.

Don (dhubbard422) - I hope it runs! :lol_hitti Once the DRO and VFD's are in, it should do nicely. Part of me, mostly when I'm scraping layers of paint, thinks it may have been easier to just get a nice clean machine from the start. Then I come back to reality and realize that almost all the machines in the price I want to pay would need a similar going over. Maybe not as much as the Model 40, but still would need some work. How is the shop coming along? Have you figured out the next moto project yet? Weather here in the hills is prime riding weather. 90 plus in Boulder but in the 70's up here. The Norton has been coming out more and more!

Thanks folks for checking in and for all the encouragement.

Cheers,
Chris

Hey Chris, The Tractor paint looks really nice. It appears to cover really well and it is nice and glossy!

I'll try to make a post on the shop front - soonish... as some small progress has been made. Next Moto project? I did buy a vintage TY175 trials bike a couple of months ago that I plan to "update", i.e. make it better than a works bike back in the day, but I'm still pondering my next street bike choice. :) At the current rate of progress on the shop front, it'll be a while before I get around to a new (big) moto project... even your "slower" pace makes my pace look positively glacial!

I expect that the Norton is a blast along P2P! I'm envious of the great roads and scenery you have nearby.

Keep posting pictures of the Index!

Don
 

pitterpat

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Chris, I just finished reading your thread from the begining, took me about 3-4 days. Great work and great progress for the level of detail you go to. There are some of your ideas I'm stealing.

Both of my garages have a hip roof. For one of them, the attached garage with the highest ceiling, I want to put the "all thread" shelves. Can you tell me the depth of your shelves, the height and the size of the bins you used. I'm looking to do this to open up a corner of the garage that I have a large shelving unit in the corner. I LOVE the idea of having bins for each project (plumbing, drywall, sanding....etc). This garage is only 22 x 22 but has a high roof (8'8" where rafters meet the walls). So I have room to hang the "threaded rod shelves" down about 2-3 ft and it gets some of the storage up to give me back floor space.

Great job....I have to get going on my projects!

Also, sorry about your other job but Jackson looks like a great dog. Post some more pictures when you get a chance.
 
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NedNorton

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1/2 Cup - Thanks. It means a lot when you stop by. I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.

Don (don long) - Ahhhh.... Casting marks. These have become termites and I am the Orkin Man. I will hunt them down. However, unlike the Orkin man, it feels like the bugs are winning... mostly after 2 days of sanding. :wtf:

Don (dhubbard442) - The peak2peak has been great. I must admit that I have only had the bike out a few times this year. I'm making it a point to ride all next week. Minus of course the day I have to bring the recycling and trash down to Boulder. The price of living in the hills. There is always something.. But, any day riding is a good day. :thumbup: I'm looking forward to seeing the shop progress.

pitterpat - Thanks for making through the entire thing! I really appreciate you taking time to read through the story. I'll take a few minutes in the next couple of days and get you the measurements. I'm excited whenever anyone gets anything out of the ramblings.

Thanks folks for checking in. I always appreciate it.

Cheers,
Chris
 
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NedNorton

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“Body filler and sanding” posts!” I know that I’m excited. :rocker:

OK… As promised… Body filler and sanding! Part 1.

The castings from the INDEX mill are rough. My guess is that when they were doing the molds the world was deep into WWII and cosmetics were last on the list. 70 years later and I think the old girl deserves any attention to detail that I can manage to give her.

I was going to use Rage Gold but since this isn’t a car I thought I would go for the less expensive option. Evercoat Lite Weight. It still goes on smooth and sands well. Not as well as the Gold option but OK.





The base casting was my first victim. Full discloser, I haven’t worked with body filler in any serious way in over 25 years. (motorcycle tins are so small they don't count)

Here goes nothing…




Sanded smooth (A part is sanded smooth anyway)




After working the filler I had applied first and seeing the results it was time to mud up the rest.




It’s getting there…


I did two more coats but forgot to snap pictures. (Aka... All those little inclusions are gone now and it is flattening out nicely. ) The base is looking good and after the sanding primer should be glass smooth (or as glass smooth as my rusty hands can get it. :D)

My wife had a few things she wanted to in the yard, which gave me 2 full days in the shop. Good thing too, what you see above is sanding, more sanding and more sanding. I hope that with a little luck I’ll be shooting epoxy primer by weeks end!

Thanks folks for reading along. I appreciate it.

Cheers,
Chris
 
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Strouty

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When you get done it will look great, so it will be worth the effort for sure. Funny about the castings, I have a belt sander and it has a tag on it that states war finish.
 
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NedNorton

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Colorado, USA
1/2 Cup - She is getting there. After all this body work I'm going to turn my attention to some mechanical maintenance by building some holders for new lead screw nuts. Heck... The new nuts to take out some of the backlash, new Baldors (main and x axis power feed), VFDs for the motors, and a new 3-axis DRO set-up we are taking a big step into the 90's!

nine4gmc - Great to hear from you. I've been busy at work lately and your thread has been my late night can't sleep reading! What does a guy have to do to get one of the custom beer holders?

Strouty - Yep, "war finish" = get it done functional. I figure the old mill has earned all the added attention. She still has a bunch of parts left in her and I'm looking forward to having the mill up and running. For sure!

On that note... I did manage to get a little sanding done tonight. Just a few more spots to address and it will be time to shoot a little epoxy primer. Then it is just a little glazing putty, more sanding, a couple of coats of high build primer, more sanding and then color! :willy_nil

(I really hope when it comes the to do the LC body work I'm faster at all this...)



The light, and blotchy patches from multiple filler applications, doesn't really show how smooth things are. Is it wrong to run my hand over the curves over and over? Nah... :lol_hitti



Thanks for stopping in. As always, I appreciate it.

Cheers,
Chris
 
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