Post up your Thorsen tools!

[ryan20021982]

I just had to post this screenshot from eBay.

Nice set. Somebody REALLY likes those v-groove wrenches!

That's higher than I thought but they are collectable, I wonder what mine would go for lol I have more in my set than they did

 

[Rileysan]

Hi Brian. Just to be clear, as it says in the "references and resources" portion of the P&C Alloy entry I just "passed along" the information from a very interesting conversation I had with the Derville family in the CEO's office of General Tool. Bill H. "wrote" everything that appears on that site.

Thank you for the clarification!

Brian

 

[d42jeep]

Username recently sent me some DOE wrenches that had no markings other than a small MFD USA on each wrench of the set. They had a Thorsen look and after comparing the MFD USA to Thorsen and Action wrenches there can’t be much doubt about the Manufacturer.
-Don

 

[Username already in use]

I thought they were Thorsen when I picked them up as well. Knew just where they belonged.
I didn't notice it before, but it looks like that 11/32 end has been modified.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...no markings other than a small MFD USA on each wrench of the set....

Not to be picayune (there is a madness to my method...), but verbatim, it's actually "MFD. U.S.A.". The periods are really hard to see on the tinier tools (midget handles, etc), but they're there. Why I make the clarification is because it's exactly like the Plomb Empire marking circa 1946 forward. Which has always seemed a little strange to me.

Other than Plomb Empire (Plomb, P&C, Proto, PENENS/Fleet) and Thorsen (including Giller and Dayton) tools, can anyone think of anyone else who used "MFD." as an abbreviation for "manufactured"? Off the top of my head, I can't.

It seems odd to think this way, but it's either a bizarre coincidence, or there is a connection. A connection does not seem to be completely out of the question given the fact that Ned Boyd was affiliated with P&C in the early days. But, that ended in 1929, P&C wasn't bought by Plomb until 1941, and Ned Boyd was no longer affiliated with Thorsen in 1946, when the Plomb Empire started using "MFD.".

Did P&C use it early? When did Thorsen start using it?

I know, I know, a lot of idle ruminating over a little abbreviation. But again, it's not actually that common. It's so uncommon, in fact, that it's thought of as a later (post-1946) Plomb Empire 'tell' - if not for Thorsen and Thorsen-made Giller and Dayton also using it. It just nags at me. Probably is just a bizarre coincidence.

 

[Rileysan]

Probably is just a bizarre coincidence.

Like the bizarre coincidence of P&C and Thorsen releasing nearly identical open gear ratchets around the same time in the mid 1930s?

Nothing to see here. Move along!

Brian

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Haha! Maybe it's like the hex gullets on Wright, Cornwell, and Mac open end wrenches. It's a secret Masonic thing. You have to know the handshake.

 

[Rileysan]

Haha! Maybe it's like the hex gullets on Wright, Cornwell, and Mac open end wrenches. It's a secret Masonic thing. You have to know the handshake.

I've been told I watch too much Ancient Aliens but I don't believe in coincidence.

If I understand correctly, Ned Boyd didn't just leave P&C behind, he took engineers with him to form Thorsen.

New products take years to design, test, redesign, test (etc), market, manufacture, and sell. I imagine (opine) that a few designs and/or design elements carried over from P&C to Thorsen, and Ned Boyd didn't necessarily need to remain at Thorsen for those similarities to continue.

The question is: how did these companies advance technology so quickly unless there was an "otherworldly" influence?!?

Brian

 

[bonneyman]

The question is: how did these companies advance technology so quickly unless there was an "otherworldly" influence?!?

Brian

Caffeine, baby!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm not very superstitious, either. We've actually had the 1930's open gear ratchet conversation before, probably earlier in this very thread, and I pointed to the tool and die guy Boyd brought over to Thorsen with him as the most likely source for that design. In this case, with first use of "MFD." by the Plomb Empire not until 1946, with Boyd long gone from Thorsen, and the tool and die guy back at P&C, I have a harder time with the latent design principles rationale. But there is something there. It's in the ether, though. Not yet clear, for me anyway. It would help to know first use by Thorsen. That could be key. If it was early (i.e., 1929, early 1930's), the ether starts to quicken for Plomb getting it from the Thorsen tool and die guy back in the fold at P&C. If it was later, I'm more inclined to just look at it as a sort of everyone looking over everyone else's shoulders industry trend thing that somehow stayed on the west coast.

 

[d42jeep]

Lugz,
I’m pretty sure that the MFD. U.S.A. was later. It appears on the metric wrenches in this picture.
-Don

 

[Mick56]

I have a fair amount of sockets and wrenches, but this is the first Thorsen screwdriver I have ever seen. The paint is worn off, and I couldn't get it to show, but it says Thorsen 024P U.S.A.

 

[d42jeep]

I posted my Thorsen screwdrivers in post 438 in this thread. They are fairly common in the San Francisco Bay Area. Here they are again.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

I spent most of the day yesterday incorporating all of my recent Thorsen additions into the collection. I took quite a few pictures along the way. Here are some of them. The first three are metric wrenches. The next three are DOE and DBE wrenches.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

The next batch of pictures are combo wrenches, punches, chisels and screwdrivers with some extra spinners.
-Don

 

[454ragtop]

Saw a Thorsen tool board the other day at the flea market, has I been aware of this thread I would have snapped a pic. If it's still there the next time I go, I'll get one.

 

[PFSard]

The next batch of pictures are combo wrenches, punches, chisels and screwdrivers with some extra spinners.
-Don

Nice collection. Really liking the look of those screwdrivers. I don't ever remember seeing those in the wild.

 

[bonneyman]

Nice collection. Really liking the look of those screwdrivers. I don't ever remember seeing those in the wild.

Yeah, those neon green caps are impossible to miss amongst old tools.

 

[d42jeep]

I found these Thorsen 1/2” drive sockets and ratchet at a Tahoe garage sale today.
-Don

 

[MR.X]

Although, obviously, exposed gear ratcheting mechanisms have been around long before the creation of either company, there has been plenty of conjecture over which company, P&C or Thorsen marketed their "open gear" ratchets first.
I think generally the consensus has been that Thorsen, based on their history, may have borrowed the idea from P&C. However, based on what I've seen so far, it would appear that Thorsen came out with theirs first.

The 1st pic is of a page from a '34' Calif Tool cat. with a Thorsen made exposed gear ratchet.
The 2nd pic is from a 36 General Tool cat. with a Thorsen made exposed gear ratchet.
The 3rd pic is from the 36 Woodbury cat. which has an extensive P&C section but there is no exposed gear ratchet to be found.

 

[MR.X]

The open gear 6211 does show up in the 40-P 1939 P&C cat.
A GJ member does have, I believe, a 36ish P&C catalog but I'm unsure if there is any mention of the 6211 in it.
Prior to the Woodbury 36 I think the latest cat. known is mention of some bulletins to a 31 on the P&C tools website that go up to feb.1933 but I didn't see anything there.

 

[Rileysan]

The open gear 6211 does show up in the 40-P 1939 P&C cat.
A GJ member does have, I believe, a 36ish P&C catalog but I'm unsure if there is any mention of the 6211 in it.
Prior to the Woodbury 36 I think the latest cat. known is mention of some bulletins to a 31 on the P&C tools website that go up to feb.1933 but I didn't see anything there.

Great information, although I am personally saddened to learn that Thorsen may have beaten P&C to market (not really - I'm just being melodramatic!).

Was there enough of a difference in designs between the two to keep them from suing each other over patent rights, or were open gear ratchet patents already expired and free game?

Brian

 

[MR.X]

yeah, I don't know anything about patents but not sure there was anything unique enough design or utility wise to warrant a patent.

 

[MR.X]

..and speaking of General Tool, here's a Thorsen made speeder I found last week. The 2nd picture is the General Tool pictured with a Thorsen TT marked 62 speeder from a mid 30's set.

 

[3baygarage]

Pretty cool. That General stuff has to be extremely scarce outside of the PNW. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any in person.

Appreciate the ratchet info too.

 

[MR.X]

Thanks 3bay, yeah, the General Tool Thorsen stuff, even in Portland you just never see. I literally have more of those 30's era "OAK, CALIF" marked Thorsen Tools than GT marked ones.
As for the ratchet info I figured it was about time to show my cards on that, maybe someone else with evidence will chime in.

 

[BFBOB]

My search for more VeeGees has borne fruit!
Here's the latest - a Wilde 15/16" combo. It's pretty rough, very little chrome left, but it is a new brand. That brings the total number of brands this pattern came in (that I know of!) to 10 - 9 of which I have. The only one I'm missing is Westcraft, and I know where one that I just might be able to snag is.
Now, away to the e-tank to see if I can pretty it up a bit!

 

[bonneyman]

Nice catalog pics, MR.X!

 

[d42jeep]

Here is an adjustable wrench marked Thorsen Allied that username sent me for my collection. It needed a little cleaning and lubrication but the plastic handle is remarkably intact. I haven’t seen many Thorsen Allied tools from Spain.
-Don

 

[BFBOB]

...aaaannnnddd Another!!

Cruising the pages of GJ, I spied a picture of one of the VS series Snap-On wrenches - one of those oddball 4-angle DOE's. But something didn't look right.
Magnifying the photo as much as I could, I could see a logo that clearly was not any of the brands of VeeGee wrenches I knew of. Reading further revealed that it is a Caterpillar! An unknown-to-me brand of these wrenches.
I immediately dashed off a PM to the author, Rusty65 asking whether he'd sell it. The answer was Yes, and now it's mine.
It's in extremely good condition with very few signs of use, and minimal toolbox rash.

That brings the known-to-me brand list to:

Action
Blue Grass
Caterpillar
Channellock
Dayton
KAL
Powr-Kraft
Snap-On
Thorsen
Westcraft
Wilde

Still searching for a Westcraft.
Thanks again, Rusty65!

 

[d42jeep]

Tin Medic has been doing some fantastic picking at sales lately and sent me a ton of tools for the Thorsen collection including this little V guy that I had previously traded away.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Among the tools from Tin Medic, I found this dual marked Action/Thorsen ratchet. I originally thought that a Thorsen ratchet had been a donor for the Action handle but since the tool is virtually like new, I’m thinking that it probably came this way.
-Don

 

[bonneyman]

Among the tools from Tin Medic, I found this dual marked Action/Thorsen ratchet. I originally thought that a Thorsen ratchet had been a donor for the Action handle but since the tool is virtually like new, I’m thinking that it probably came this way.
-Don

I'm thinking you're onto something there.

 

[notlob]

I found one Thorsen screwdriver recently of a style I haven't seen before - about 4 1/2" OAL. Also picked up an early TT-logo universal joint.

 

[d42jeep]

I’ve never seen a screwdriver like that either, although I do have a 1/4” spinner that looks similar.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

I picked up these triplets at an estate sale yesterday. If anyone needs one for their collection give me a holler. They are unplated 7/8” x 13/16” offset DBE wrenches.
-Don

 

[jabberwoki]

Better post it up here where it belongs.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a ratcheting combo wrench marked Oakland I picked up yesterday. It’s stamped Pat Applid For.
-Don

 

[honza.vosalik]

I found some of the larger wrenches yesterday

 

[bonneyman]

I found one Thorsen screwdriver recently of a style I haven't seen before - about 4 1/2" OAL. Also picked up an early TT-logo universal joint.

I love that length of straight blade driver! I have an Indestro and some yellow handle Proto's like it. They get alot more use than the 6 and 8 inch varieties. But I, too, have not seen a Thorsen one.

Funny - I like stubby standards and extra long phillips drivers. Regular length screwdrivers just get dusty in my shop.