Potentially Stolen Toolbox Worth Buying?

[PJNJ]

I'm retired and it's been a while since I dealt with bankruptcy issues but generally under bankruptcy rules a bankrupt party's "tools of the trade" (subject to a maximum amount depending on the state or if he uses the federal exemption) are his to keep subject to the claim of a creditor (Mac Tools) pursuant to their qualified lien on the tools. In order to perfect the lien, there would have to have been a UCC filing with the state in which bankrupt party filed or purchased the tools. If it has been a few years I would doubt there is any claim on them at this time. Generally the trustee doesn't like to deal with small items but would deal with selling the tools as a package deal if he deals with them at all. Someone who is current on bankruptcy rules can probably advise you better.

As for the prior scenario of the tools being "stolen" by the farmer - if the farmer was unable to contact the "crackhead" and if the farmer disposed of the tools after a few years of storing them, depending the state law where they are located, the "crackhead" may have a civil claim (or not) but I doubt very much there would a criminal case.

 

[warmpancakes]

How long ago was the bk filed, how old is box, financed through Mac or truck? State your live in

 

[Lookin4'67Galaxieconv]

To the OP, you answered your question in your original post. You should be intelligent enough to realize that.

 

[chopper1]

Remember.....karma is a *****

 

[Whitworth]

You guys crack me up. Nobody can track a tool box. Legally or practically. It's not titled property. If the OP does not take it some one else will. You think the crackhead has the serial number from the worthless paper sticker memorized? I thought he was a crackhead, not Mr obsessive-compulsive.

G

 

[RStewart]

Bankruptcy allows for exemptions to the debtor. Maybe the tools etc were part of that.

 

[FMC1959]

You guys crack me up. Nobody can track a tool box. Legally or practically. It's not titled property. If the OP does not take it some one else will. You think the crackhead has the serial number from the worthless paper sticker memorized? I thought he was a crackhead, not Mr obsessive-compulsive.

G

I agree that it is unlikely that a tool box has a lien, but on the other hand, if the OP is from a small town (hence the farmer friend), everybody knows everything about everyone. Wouldn't be hard for someone to find you....unless you plan on moving out of Dodge.

 

[bobbycos]

If it is a problem owning it in a small town and it can be purchased free and clear and not be stolen

Hmmmmm, where is this box located again ?

 

[AceofSpad3s]

If it is a problem owning it in a small town and it can be purchased free and clear and not be stolen

Hmmmmm, where is this box located again ?

I would imagine that the concern is the crackhead.

 

[Givl Reggin]

Buying stolen property? How can I go wrong?!

 

[quattroJoe]

Whether the tools and box are subject to seizure under his business bankruptcy may come down to whether he already owned the tools before starting the business or if he bought them afterwards with his business account or claimed them as a business expense.

Either way, suppose the dude relapses and needs drug money after selling you the tools and box. Do you really want to deal with him potentially coming around trying to steal them back to pawn? Addicts do some stupid stuff.

Ultimately though, if there's reasonable suspicion that money is owed or they are not rightfully sellable by the current owner, you've got to go with your conscience. Sure, Mac would probably never come after you, and if you don't make the deal maybe someone else will, but that doesn't make it right. Just boils down to your own moral compass and how important it is to you to do what's right, even if no one is watching.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I doubt the tools were part of the bankruptcy. I would get the serial # off the box and call MAC and see what the deal is. If there is a balance on the box I think its only right to pay it off. If the balance is out of your budget, then move on. If there is no balance, then you have no reason not to buy the box.

 

[xxaler]

It's a toolbox and tools. Buy it, take them home, use them.

Last time I checked, serial numbers on Mac toolboxes were just a sticker.

 

[Skyline]

I agree that it is unlikely that a tool box has a lien, but on the other hand, if the OP is from a small town (hence the farmer friend), everybody knows everything about everyone. Wouldn't be hard for someone to find you....unless you plan on moving out of Dodge.

Actually, most large toolboxes sold on credit have liens. I don't know what Mac uses, but you'd be amazed at the contracts Snap-on uses. If a buyer does not pay for a toolbox, they can reposes the toolbox AND its contents, even if those contents are already paid for.

Regardless of whether Mac still has an interest in this box, the bankruptcy situation significantly complicates the ownership here. Id say this is one to walk away from.

 

[VictorBravo]

Well, just another free opinion from a lawyer who does bankruptcy:

If the box was paid off prior to the bankruptcy, he probably was able to exempt it and keep it--it's free to be sold.

BUT #1: If he hid the asset and did not list it on his schedules, that's bankruptcy fraud, criminal, and could expose you to loss.


BUT #2, if it was collateral for a debt, the secured creditor has a security interest (like a lien) on it. Should the secured creditor find it, it could repossess. If you knew it was secured and not paid off, there is the chance of some kind of liability against you too.

Bankruptcy laws interplay with a given state's law, so I couldn't give more of an answer than the above. Checking with Mac is probably a good move on your part.

 

[sonvolt]

Have you ever heard what the safety click sounds like being disengaged on a pistol ? Sounds like one of those deals.

 

[ChevyEFI]

Trade it in for an Epiq.

 

[MrJason]

I may have the option to get involved in a kind of complicated situation. My one friend's dad is storing an entire shop's worth of tools for his mechanic friend who turned crack head. The mechanic went bankrupt and lost everything in a messy divorce with his wife and then my friend's dad (who is a farmer and therefore has tons of storage) volunteered to store all of his tools including a custom made Macsimzer that is massive. It has to be at least 12' wide and over 6' tall. Since the mechanic was supposed to lose all his business in the bankruptcy I don't think he was legally allowed to take all the tools. In addition I have my doubts that the Mac dealer was ever paid in full for the Macsimizer. Does that mean that I should stay away even though I think it is a possibility to get the Macsimizer at about a tenth of the original price. It would need keys and probably locks replaced so would there be any issue getting parts since it is probably illegally held. It is a memorable box so it is doubtful that it would be possible to hide it from anyone. I don't want any trouble with it so is it more work then it is worth?

I hate to be bold here, but the fact that you're asking - means that you know it's wrong but want us to help you justify why it's right.

Let someone else desk with this drama. Go on with life, forget about it.

One step forward in acquiring stolen goods, becomes one step farther away from being a good man. A man of honor.

Do what you will. You'll be accountable for one decision, but honorable for the other.

Choose wisely.
Jason

 

[oldldh]

In a word---

NOPE!!!

 

[wagzilla]

Put the shoe on the other foot what if it was your box and tools?

James LET IT GO!!!!!!

 

[Thumper]

Sounds like your rolling head first into a **** storm..... I believe I would pass on the deal.

 

[chris142]

Karma...

 

[PugetDude]

Knowing how dirty this deal is, why would you want to roll in the mud with the pigs?

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

How is this a dirty deal? None of us know if there is a balance due on the box. If there is, and the O.P. pays it off, MAC wins and the O.P. wins.

 

[SuperSheep]

I don't know why you keep on empthaizing that the owner is a "crackhead". I can only surmise you are trying to justify your actions by saying it is against a "crack head" and not a "married hardworking father of 2". Your insistance on beating on a word with negative connotations makes me think there is more to the story then what you are telling us. Is it morally and ethnically sound to screw over a person addicted to drugs as opposed to a person who is not?

I think you arrogant and ignorant labeling of the individual as a "crack head" is an attempt to demonize the victmin as away to justify your own questionable action. Eg. is robbing a drug dealer is okay because the victim is a drug dealer?

Maybe I am wrong and there is no malicious intent at all, but congrats you are still pretty damn arrogrant for your choice of words. It also implies to us about your less then flattering opinion toward that individual. I am not even going to start on the ignorance on your part.

If I were you, I would pass as nothing good would likely come of such a deal. And if it was truely such a good deal, you of all people certainly don't deserve it.

 

[woody 73]

OP if you have to ask then the answer is NO.

 

[rice rocket]

BUT #1: If he hid the asset and did not list it on his schedules, that's bankruptcy fraud, criminal, and could expose you to loss.

Sounds like this was exactly the case. Otherwise why would he "store it with a friend".

 

[ffast65]

In a word, "RUN" So many challenges, these will follow you for decades.

 

[rancherbill]

Run away.

Having said that, I re-read your original post and you are missing some critical information.

1) Were the tools his after the divorce settlement? Typically, a mechanic would get to keep the tools of his trade and compensate with cash. Looking in ?divorce claims court? in your area will tell you whether there is an issue.

2) Going business bankrupt does not mean you lose 'your' tools. You only lose them if they are used as security.

3) Maybe they are paid for from MAC. Look where ever liens are registered. A mac guy will tell you where this stuff is registered.

Maybe he just needed a break or ran away from the trade after his divorce/bankruptcy, and stored HIS tools.

It will require work on your part. There might be a deal here, but you'll have to work for it.

 

[Skyline]

Another point to mention:

Assuming you contact MAC, and lets say $10,000 is owed on the box and tools, but real world value is $5,000. They will probably NOT deal with you, even if you lead them to the location of the box. All of the major brands have very specific disposal processes for reposed boxes. They will ship it off to a processing center somewhere and it will eventually go to an auction house.

I recently bought a Snap-on box from a guy that owed money on the box and tools. I met him and his Snap-on rep, and handed the cash to the Snap-on rep. Got a copy of a paid-in-full receipt right on the spot. I ended up taking a brand new Classic 96 filled with tools, and the guy got nothing. What I paid was the balance on his account. His Snap-on rep felt so bad, he handed the guy $500. In another situation, I once bought a Matco box and tools from a guy who owed money to Matco credit. I was able to do a deal directly with Matco to pay off his note with my credit card over the phone, and give the balance to the seller. That worked out fine. But when you're "upside down" in a box, that's where it gets tough.

And again, as pointed out several times above, any situation where an asset is hidden in a bankruptcy situation....walk away fast.

 

[wrenchr]

If you have to ask the question in the first place means you have doubt, I'd go with my first instinct and move on.

 

[knobby]

js.

 

[930dreamer]

Sounds like you would need to talk to the Mac guy and ask if the tools are paid for.

 

[Criss]

If you have to ask yourself if it's the write thing to do... it's not the right thing to do. Temping sure, but not right. Pat yourself on the back for doing the right thing and walk away.

 

[bri_man57]

@ super sheap, I in no way found the OP's use of the term "crackhead" to be negative and simply understood it to be used as identifying a person from the story. Did you try and say ignorant and arrogant as many times as you could in your post?

I clearly worded this very badly to be getting answers like this. I would be buying it directly from the crackhead who is supposedly "sober" right now. He is very good friends with the farmer who is storing it for him. I want to know, if it is potentially not paid for completely if I would have trouble dealing with the Mac dealer or if it just an issue between the ex-mechanic (crackhead) and his Mac dealer. I definitely don't want to do anything illegal or morally wrong that is why I am asking this. So when a mechanic who owns his own shop goes bankrupt does he lose his own tools and are these supposed to be the banks right now? If so I doubt the farmer knows since he is a really nice guy.

Since you would be buying from the crackhead, disregard anyone suggesting that he might come looking for you, obviously they missed this post.

Get the S/N, call Mac and ask if its paid off because you saw it a garage sale in some other town (as to not front out any of your friends.) If its free and clear, swoop on that sucker! Simple as that.

If you do not want to pursue that avenue, and you bought it from the crackhead, I doubt you would ever hear anything about it. By this time I am sure MAC has wrote it off as a loss, got the tax deduction and moved on.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

In a legit sale; wouldn't the owner be pricing the box and tools in the 35 to 40% range of his purchase price?? That much invested, and the keys got lost?? One call to the dealer should render replacements for a few dollars... Ya Back alley at midnight, bring cash, come alone...

 

[Bigplum]

Steal / buy the box and move far far away, change the colour , change your name , live " off the Grid" , only go out at night wearing a wide brimmed hat ( to stop satellites zooming in)
Probably be alright then

 

[PJNJ]

I don't know why you keep on empthaizing that the owner is a "crackhead". I can only surmise you are trying to justify your actions by saying it is against a "crack head" and not a "married hardworking father of 2". Your insistance on beating on a word with negative connotations makes me think there is more to the story then what you are telling us. Is it morally and ethnically sound to screw over a person addicted to drugs as opposed to a person who is not?

I think you arrogant and ignorant labeling of the individual as a "crack head" is an attempt to demonize the victmin as away to justify your own questionable action. Eg. is robbing a drug dealer is okay because the victim is a drug dealer?

Maybe I am wrong and there is no malicious intent at all, but congrats you are still pretty damn arrogrant for your choice of words. It also implies to us about your less then flattering opinion toward that individual. I am not even going to start on the ignorance on your part.

If I were you, I would pass as nothing good would likely come of such a deal. And if it was truely such a good deal, you of all people certainly don't deserve it.

Wow So you call out the OP for using "crackhead" but it's okay to continually call him "arrogant" and "ignorant" and then tell him he doesn't "deserve it" (the tool chest). I hope you don't hurt yourself when you fall off your pedestal.
Oh and if you are going to "cook" the OP, spellcheck and a thesaurus are your friends. For example - "empthaizing". It just shows that you're "ignorant".

 

[finn]

Why don't you contact your local prosecuting attorney's office and ask them?

If you are reluctant to do so, I think you know the answer.

 

[AndrewV]

Wtf is up with most of you?
He's asking for opinions on the situation.

Op, get the numbers off the box. Do some calling, and see the situation in full.
Then go from there.