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pour sat.

SiGmA_X

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Have you considered putting a finish on the floor? At their expense, of course, as you didn't order the sub-par work. I don't know much about it, but grinding, polishing, and sealing the floor would likely do the trick. Or grinding, acid etching, and epoxying the floor.
 
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Highbeam

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I can live with the swirls. The white splotches and lumps that can't be seen in those pics ate ridiculous.

Do you have any pics of the bad part? I'm not going to give you the "this is a pole barn" line but this is concrete and is seldom perfect. I would hate to think what you will do when it cracks.
 

joes169

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I can live with the swirls. The white splotches and lumps that can't be seen in those pics ate ridiculous. I didn't pay for combine storage floor. Deal was showroom finish. This is my place of business

Do the "lumps" stick slightly above the slab, about the size of a dime or quarter? If so, they're air pockets underneath and I agree, you shouldn't have to live with them, because some of them could possibly "pop"......

Also, it's not your job to provide light to the crew, it was their responsibility to access the situation closely before they dumped the first wheelbarrow of crete. My employees generally think I'm nut's when I insist on hanging a big light over a pour at 7 AM in the summer, but I never want to be left in the dark (again..) with concrete...........
 

cement mason

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As a third generation finisher who has been finishing concrete for twenty six years I can say that its hard to tell by pics.
In the first pic it looks to like person who pulled straight edge never got the end of the board down to the line on the wood(straight edge is 80% of floor flatness). Where the gray meets the white is probably a bump. or the trowel machine is not running flat and hitting all the way out to end of blade. What most do is turn blades up higher which in turn causes the ring mark from the blade. If the straight edge was down all the way the machine (if Hitting the floor correctly) would hit everything but a couple of inches along the edge. Where float blades used? Hand troweled edges are hard to make make match a machine trowel. So there will be a little difference between the edge then the center.
The second pic of floor does not look that bad. I see some white spots (or small circles) out in the floor. If these are the little lumps you are talking about, these appear to be from buildup on the bottom of blades that have fallen of when burning a floor to slick finish. The only way to stop this is to pull machine off and clean the blades off. All in all from this pic floor doesn't look that bad.
Third pic in front of garage door. Floor looks fuzzy but not burnt to shine (left under machine). It is common practice to leave floor fuzzy (if fuzz is left, it is sealed concrete, no pin holes) but we usually hand trowel. If customer requested all shine then the time has to be priced in by contractor. Contractor should have an idea of the amount of time to finish if he has been doing any work at all. Also from this pic it doesn't look like the blades on the machine were hitting the floor evenly. We also bump up accelerator another 1/2 percent to help callback load to (or last load if small load, because small loads do not generate near the heat a full load will to set in cool weather) catch up with the rest of floor in cold weather. You can also use hot water to help the set time. I always ask for temp reading but not from from first load out of plant. First load from plant always seems to be warmer because materials generate heat sitting in bins.

The fourth pic again hard to tell but doesn't look to bad, but pic looks a little fuzzy to me.
If I were you I would get another finisher to have a look because pictures wont tell the whole story. But I will tell you this. I have never met a finisher who doesn't already know it all.
If I were the contractor I would look into some diamond polishing pads. and polish it up. In my opinion if you grind and take it down to the rock. Then it will really look like someone goofed. When ever I see a floor that has been ground down to exposed aggregate (unless its colored rock or glass), my first thought is someone lost it or it got rained on. When My Dad did KCI airport They would pour 20 grand and pray for rain because it was cheaper to grind then it was to pay help to finish. That's back when the cement had time cool after coming out of the kiln. Today's cement is still warm and sets like a house fire.

Another thing I have read is people are scared to use calcium for accelerator and use NCA (Non Corrosive Accelerator) instead. NCA needs sunshine to set it off. All the horror stories of calcium but I can show you buildings my grandpa,my great uncle, my uncle and my father did many many moons ago that have calcium are still standing and the floors look better then most all these floors today. People can always use epoxy coated steel if scared of calcium. Today's concrete is not rock, sand, cement and water. They all have fly-ash because the cements are being blended with it from manufacturer. Then concrete company adds more to mix. We have been doing floors with a tri blend, 25% fly-ash, 15% slag, 65% cement, 20% water 80% plasticizers (they finally made concrete that cant be finished) . Im sorry but it takes cement and moisture to make paste to bond around the rock to build strength and finish (the other 2 would trowel like wet dirt if used by themselves). Sand is a filler. Concrete is no longer concrete its chemical. That is why we no longer pour 4" slabs no more. 5" is as thin as we will go. Unless customer takes the responsibility.
There are three things I guarantee about concrete: It gets hard, Its gonna crack, and nobody is gonna steal it.

Good luck and hope you get it resolved.
P.S Hello to everyone because this my first post.
 
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Dave Maxwell

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Concrete will crack. I know that. I paid for a good not a half asses one. The lumps are about 4 inches wide by 7 inches long. Looks like a handfuls of mud slopped on and not touched. I will get better pics. If I paid for a cheap job than I would be fine. U was promised a falt and smooth floor
 
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Dave Maxwell

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I cropped some pica to show some of the bad stuff. You can't go five feet without a bad spot.
2012-12-089513-29-5695571-1.jpg
 

cement mason

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You'll need to replace that first one with, "it won't catch fire". I can make concrete not get hard with an appropriate dose of sugar.

Again not real concrete. Adding another chemical to counteract the true ingredients of concrete.
Def: A heavy, rough building material made from a mixture of broken stone or gravel, sand, cement, and water, that can be spread or poured. This is the key ingredients of concrete since the beginning. When they add all the other chemicals it no longer fits the list of ingredients. Its an ad-mixture that changes the original chemical compound of the key ingredient which is cement.
 

cement mason

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That last pic looks like they just plain lost it. Even if it gets away from on the get go, float blades and a little water will usually bring right back. That just looks like someone don't have no idea of what the hell they are doing. Only choices I see are grind and polish, Pour a cap over top( make sure to mark saw cuts above cap to ensure line up with existing saw cuts below), tear out and start over, or tell that guy you want big discount for poorly finish product then either grind polish and stain or epoxy over. I feel your pain. There are lots of fly by niter's around here and its very hard to compete with them.
 
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cement mason

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what is square footage? When did they start pouring? I don't think enough light has anything to do with it. I think they didn't get a machine on it soon enough. if anything at all the person crawling the walls should been able to tell person running machine "Hey This is hard!" Because walls and edges usually get hit first. And first time down them is the worst time. Once ya got it hit the first time you usually got it whipped. Finishing is all about timing and I can see right now these people just don't have it.
 

cement mason

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Couple of hours to put mud on the ground if trucks keep service on ya. That's about 20 minute spacing between trucks.(8 to 10 yard loads) So if they started at 8am mud was down by 10pm doesn't get dark say around 5pm. There is 7 hours of time (daylight) to be checking whether it is setting up and ready to get on and start finishing. I hate to say it again but they let it get away from them. If that was the only door we usually hang a machine in the corner where we start pouring so you don't have to wait for the last load by the door to set to get back and start finishing. I could probably ramble on about ideas. But the fact is they lost the floor. Now you have to figure out compensation for an undesirable product. Usually a floor that has imperfections will grind, polish and stain to turn out pretty good. (it all just depends on how much grinding it takes to get rid of the bumps) Wish you were close so I could come take a look see at it. What ever your choice is to deal with it, I hope it turns out for ya.
 
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Dave Maxwell

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They started at 8am. Still power trowling at 8:30 pm. They have an expert coming Wednesday to look at it. If its ground and sanded can it look good. Sanding alone won't work will it
 

cement mason

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Sanding will not get rid of bumps. Grinding will. There is a product by the name of Ardex to patch over the top of these areas or the coat the whole floor with it. Clean the floor well, trowel on a few coats of Ardex then let it tighten up, then use diamond polishing pads and polish the whole thing. Now the bumps will have to be taken down or feathered out a distance depending on the size of the bump. So an option would be to grind it, coat a couple times with Ardex then polish.
 

cement mason

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Look into the Ardex. Patch over unfinished areas with it. Using several coats to even up the ridges. Then polish with diamond polishing pads. I think you will be surprised. Guy I know works with big outfit just did this at big power plant along the Mo. river on a floor. He said it looked pretty good and blended in well even after chipping and grinding a 1" to 1.5" bump out of it.
Just talked to Dad, he said they used a product called burlex (don't think its available anymore), straight cement, and a big floor grinder to fix the rained on floors at kci airport. They pour the burlex on floor, throw some cement on top, then grind it with floor grinder. Then hand trowel it.

Got to get my rear to bed. got 280yds to dump at 6am.
 

CNGsaves

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Given the fact this "may" end up in court, I'd sure recommend getting a written estimate NOW of what a competent concrete company will charge to FIX the improper work that was done (thus document it's current condition with tons of pictures, emails and written correspondence with pour company, etc). Thus, that quantifies the damages. Don't pay them another nickel. Only proceed with any "cures" based on written agreement that THEY are responsible for making this correct in the end.

Best of luck to you. Let us know how it turns out and before/after pics.
 
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Dave Maxwell

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They had a resurfacing company look at it today. 2-3000 to do. Then may be salt and peppered as they said. Whatever that means. Told them if that's what it takes then that's what it takes
 

cement mason

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They had a resurfacing company look at it today. 2-3000 to do. Then may be salt and peppered as they said. Whatever that means. Told them if that's what it takes then that's what it takes

Salt and pepper is grinding and polishing only exposing the sand, no aggregate (rock). Can make a nice looking acid stained floor after they get done. Yes will be smooth. They have different grits of grinding head and polishing pads. That 3000 bucks is on the contractor who screwed up I hope.
 
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Dave Maxwell

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If they just grind to the salt and pepper look. Do I need tp seal it after. Will the sand and stuff rub off and leave gaps in floor. I might end up with a painted floor anyway after they get there mess straight. Always like nice shiny floors. Not to slippery though
 

cement mason

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If they just grind to the salt and pepper look. Do I need tp seal it after. Will the sand and stuff rub off and leave gaps in floor. I might end up with a painted floor anyway after they get there mess straight. Always like nice shiny floors. Not to slippery though

No the sand should not rub off or out. Should be bonded around with cement.
As far as cure I would use Ashford Formula. This is a cure not a sealer for top. I will tell you this This stuff will make your concrete hard. Probably the best I have used to cure and harden. Except for throwing trap rock, Carborundum chips or floor hardener on the top before you finish. As for shine, if they polish it will have some shine. After using Ashford, staining is a no go.
 

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46Nash

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Hey Dave sorry to see your pour didnt go so well. My pour was done right before thanksgiving and my mason also did not get it right. Had alot of bumps and imperfections. For me, since its just a detached garage I took a discount on the job, but I can see thats not acceptible for you and I hope it all works out in the end.
 
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Dave Maxwell

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If it was just a garage, it might be easier. I was promised a smooth flat floor. All I ask. This is where I will be building street rods and such. Customer will be in from time to time. My place needs to be nice. I would take a 2500 dollar discount
 
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