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SiGmA_X

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Aug 13, 2005
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Portland, OR
Yeah, that needs fixing. Those new pics make it look more like how I imagine it in person - horrid!

Concrete Mason - Good to have you on board, I know little about concrete and love hearing from the pros!
 
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wedge40

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Oct 31, 2009
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335
Location
Bloomington, IN
Dave, Hope you get yours fixed and soon. I'm just now getting mine ready. I've hired someone to do a turn key operation, excavate, gravel, XPS, rebar, pex and finally cement. I'm a tad south of you so the weather is turning cold. I'm not worried about the cement so much since I'm getting a polished finish, but I am worried about getting the pex layed out in cold weather. The earliest they will be ready to pour will be about two weeks from now.

Wedge
 

wedge40

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Understand Dave. I've got my contractor coming out this afternoon, cause I'm not too pleased with the prep work they've done so far.

Wedge
 
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Dave Maxwell

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Kickapoo illinois
Got a call from the contractor today saying the concrete supplier needs paid. I paid them over half. They don't get the rest until floor is fixed. The concrete supplier is one he called and set up. His responsabilty to pay him. Not my issue. Supplier cant come after me since it wasn't my job.
 

joes169

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Sep 19, 2011
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663
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WI
Got a call from the contractor today saying the concrete supplier needs paid. I paid them over half. They don't get the rest until floor is fixed. The concrete supplier is one he called and set up. His responsabilty to pay him. Not my issue. Supplier cant come after me since it wasn't my job.

Hopefully, you already have a lien waiver from the ready-mix supplier, although that's highly unlikely. Without one, the supplier can, and likely will, be issuing you an "Intent to Lien" within the next 10 days or so.........
 

joes169

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I think it's time for you to start educating yourself on how liens work, unfortunately. Trust me, I think the contractor should at least attempt to remedy the problem at hand before seeing another cent, but the reality is that he likely doesn't have the money to pay the concrete bill. The concrete supplier needs to serve you the "I to L" within x days of delivery, or they'll automatically waive their rights. Not many suppliers are taking those chances anymore, not with the economy being as bad as it is, because they're more more likely to get stuck "holding the bag". I know it doesn't sound "fair", but it's the only recourse contractor's and supplier's have is the power of the lien...........
 
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Dave Maxwell

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Kickapoo illinois
So if I paid contractor and he doesn't pay. Then they can come get me. Ill have to remember that next time I buy parts for a customers vehicle. After they pay mefor ii wont pay supplier. Nope wont bepay that low
 

ConCretin

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Dave, I've been following your thread but haven't weighed in because you've been generally getting good advice. Thought I might be able to help with your supplier payment issue. It's important to understand the basics of liens because it can cost you.

Lien law varies from state to state but typically gives contractors and suppliers the right to lien your property if they are not paid for labor or materials incorporated into new construction or improvements. This includes lower tier subs and material suppliers. It seems strange to the uninitiated, but you are on the hook if your contractor does not pay for materials even if you have paid your contractor in full.

A contractor or supplier has a set period of time from the last date labor or materials were supplied to the project to file a lien. Once a lien is filed, the party filing the lien typically has a set period of time to file suit or the lien is automatically released. If they file suit and prevail, they can force the sale of your property if you don't pay the amount owed.

Your defense is two party checks or to withhold final payment until you get signed lien waivers from lower tier subs and suppliers indicating that they've been paid. The problem is that most contractors are unable or unwilling to pay their suppliers until they are paid. This obviously puts the homeowner in a difficult position. This is why hiring a reputable contractor is paramount.

In your case, I would find out how much is owed to the concrete supplier and ensure they are paid. A two party check would probably be the best option. Hopefully there is enough left over to encourage your contractor to take care of the finishing issues.

Your contractor can still file a lien if you withhold payment hopefully you'd win in court if it came to that based on poor workmanship. Good luck.
 
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wedge40

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Bloomington, IN
You told what the contractor can do, what is the home owners recourse. This sound like the criminal/victim situation.

I currently have a cement contractor who is taking his gay ole time to finish my barn. He started on Dec. 3rd and at the earliest he wont be done till Jan the 11th. Now we haven't had snow the last few years, but we just got about 10" and I'm sure this is going to slow things down even more. I'm pretty pissed and have let him know, he said he'd be more diligent about getting things done. So far I haven't seen it. I mean how long should it take to excavate, place gravel, XPS, rebar, pex and cement.? 40'x56'

Wedge
 

kert

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May 31, 2009
Messages
371
Location
Franklin, MI
You told what the contractor can do, what is the home owners recourse. This sound like the criminal/victim situation.

I currently have a cement contractor who is taking his gay ole time to finish my barn. He started on Dec. 3rd and at the earliest he wont be done till Jan the 11th. Now we haven't had snow the last few years, but we just got about 10" and I'm sure this is going to slow things down even more. I'm pretty pissed and have let him know, he said he'd be more diligent about getting things done. So far I haven't seen it. I mean how long should it take to excavate, place gravel, XPS, rebar, pex and cement.? 40'x56'

Wedge

My guy started my 30x60 on a Wednesday, block was laid by Friday, didn't work the weekend, brought in ~150 tons of fill Monday, gave me Tue-Wed to lay vapor barrier, insulation, wire mesh, and PEX, it rained Thursday, he poured Friday and did a little grading. Saturday I was buying lumber. I was impressed!
 

ConCretin

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You told what the contractor can do, what is the home owners recourse. This sound like the criminal/victim situation.

Homeowner protection law varies much more widely by state than lien law but they do exist and can be quite potent. The homeowner's first line of defense are the terms of their contract - if they have one.

The owner's typical remedy for slow performance are liquidated damages, which are pretty rare in residential contracts or termination. Timing of payments can provide a more practical method to encourage performance. Problems obviously arise however when up front payments leave the homeowner 'upside down'.

Recovering liquidated damages or up front payments without incurring additional downstream lien expense is almost impossible especially with small contractors with limited assets. Any remedy that involves lawyers is typically a lose-lose proposition.

The reality is that the homeowner is at significant risk when contracting for construction and has limited tools to mitigate that risk. The best approach will always be selecting a qualified contractor with a proven track record in the community. Avoiding these issues in the first place - even if it costs a little more up front - is still the best defense.
 
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NUTTSGT

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Sep 14, 2009
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Northern Central Ohio
Dave, I caught this thread when you first posted it. I didn't realize, the turn for the worse it had went. I hope things get straightened out soon for you.

LL, glad to see you back and posting.

Concrete Mason, nice to have another member with great concrete advice onboard.
 
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Dave Maxwell

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Kickapoo illinois
Guess if I'm stuck paying for his screw up. Ill order a few jndred ton of gravel and have it delivered to his house. He can get stuck paying for it
 

kenfath

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Oct 17, 2006
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Upland, CA
"Guess if I'm stuck paying for his screw up. Ill order a few jndred ton of gravel and have it delivered to his house. He can get stuck paying for it "

Don't do it! It will accomplish not what you think it will. When/If you can't resolve the issue with contractor take him to small claims court. Keep good notes of all conversations, promises, communications, etc. Also, keep all thoughts of retribution to yourself. Don't post such on a website. Most likely your contractor is reading them too.
 
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brewchief

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I think I would contact the supplier directly and explain the situation, they may be getting a different story from the concrete contractor. If there has ever been any mention that it was a supplier problem invite them to send a rep out to look at the job.
 

wedge40

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Bloomington, IN
Dave, just a thought. Here's what I plan on doing. First I'll call the BBB and file an official complaint, second I'll post a review in Angies list. Not sure if your guy is there (yet) and mine isn't but I'll add and warn other people. If someone doesn't step and file a complaint he'll just keep on screwing people.

Wedge
 

brewchief

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Dave, just a thought. Here's what I plan on doing. First I'll call the BBB and file an official complaint, second I'll post a review in Angies list. Not sure if your guy is there (yet) and mine isn't but I'll add and warn other people. If someone doesn't step and file a complaint he'll just keep on screwing people.

Wedge

What will filing a complaint with the BBB or Angies list do? Neither has any power to do anything other then give them a poor review, did you look your contractor up on them before you hired them?
 

ConCretin

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Dave, the supplier didn't do anything wrong here and deserves to be paid. In light of his lien rights, I would suggest that it's in your interest to ensure he is paid. 'Filing a complaint' against them will unnecessarily degrade your dealings with them.

A wiser course might be to contact them and find out how much they are owed. Let them know that you will protect their payment rights in your dealing with your contractor. You are at risk here and would be well advised to proceed thoughtfully.
 
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Dave Maxwell

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Kickapoo illinois
Guess ill pay twice. Supplier is owed more than I owe. Contractor was researched ahead of time. Contractor has been paid mote than material cost already. I am not going to get *** raped and walk away with a smile that's for sure. Why doesn't supplier put a lien on contractors stuff.
 

ConCretin

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I'm not suggesting you give up - your contractor has obligations here too. Just trying to give you the info you need to navigate your way to a decent result. You still have leverage here and the the law gives you some protection too. We're all hoping you get a successful outcome
 

kert

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May 31, 2009
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Franklin, MI
Guess ill pay twice. Supplier is owed more than I owe. Contractor was researched ahead of time. Contractor has been paid mote than material cost already. I am not going to get *** raped and walk away with a smile that's for sure. Why doesn't supplier put a lien on contractors stuff.

I think your best course of action is to contact the supplier and let them know what happened and that you have already paid the contractor more than he owes the supplier and you are withholding the remainder until the job is done. Clearly you agreed to pay part up-front and withhold the remainder until the job is complete. If the job is not complete, the remainder will not be paid.

Alternatively, you could go out and get estimates to have it fixed (if you haven't already) and pay the remainder less the cost to have it fixed and then you either let the original contractor fix it and you'll pay that amount or hire somebody else to fix it.

In either case, it seems you paid for the job, not time and materials, so if the job isn't done as agreed, you shouldn't be obligated to make full payment.

FWIW, I doubt that BBB or Angie's List will do much for you. Your best ammunition is probably word of mouth, at least where I live. If somebody asks you about your concrete work, just be sure to let them know who did it and what a douche they were. Angie's list seems like a joke to me, I'm not going to pay for a service that I might use once or twice a year at the most, and the people who are are probably not looking for the same contractors (I want someone I can work with, not a turn-key operation) that I am or just signed up to post a bad review about a bad situation.
 

wedge40

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Bloomington, IN
I understand that bbb and angies list wont do me any good, buttttt it will help others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Motofixxer

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Oct 10, 2009
Messages
681
You can contact your state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection. They have a legal staff that investigates all types of consumer issues. They were able to assist me in getting some negotiations with an out of state company that wouldn't respond. They then informed me that there was a class action suit and got me in touch with the firm heading it up.
 

walrus

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Maine
Also will turn contractor into IRS. He doesn't claim it all on taxes

I doubt this remedies your situation but maybe he gets shut down so he can't do it to anyone else. Normally revenge wouldn't be the way to go but this guy appears to be a dirt bag. Don't get dragged down to his level, he is used to being down there, you might not like it
 
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Dave Maxwell

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Kickapoo illinois
Will cost him alot of back taxes. Will take this route after all is done. If he handles it right I won't do anything. If he doesn't I will take care of it. It is hard for me to even think of ratting on someone. I am used to solving issues with my fist. Probably get sued for that with all the pusses now adays
 

walrus

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Will cost him alot of back taxes. Will take this route after all is done. If he handles it right I won't do anything. If he doesn't I will take care of it. It is hard for me to even think of ratting on someone. I am used to solving issues with my fist. Probably get sued for that with all the pusses now adays

Yeah
No matter what it ***** when in good faith you get something done and it gets screwed up beyond belief. Hope you get in your shop soon and this is all just a bad memory
 

Milton Shaw

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The best thing that you could have done was pay contractor for labor and concrete company for concrete when they delivered it. That's what I did on concrete driveways on two different pours involving about 80 yards total. Paid for pumper truck separate from labor bill. All bills paid on completion of delivery and then finish of concrete. Paying contractor for concrete is a bad way to go as he is going to mark it up anyway and in this case didn't even pay for it in the first place. Lots of shady people that tell customers they are contractors.
 

krooser

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The best thing that you could have done was pay contractor for labor and concrete company for concrete when they delivered it. That's what I did on concrete driveways on two different pours involving about 80 yards total. Paid for pumper truck separate from labor bill. All bills paid on completion of delivery and then finish of concrete. Paying contractor for concrete is a bad way to go as he is going to mark it up anyway and in this case didn't even pay for it in the first place. Lots of shady people that tell customers they are contractors.

I did that when my shop floor was poured and, again, when I had my driveway done. I'm in a small town and we have several guys who do concrete work but don't have a credit agreement with the concrete outfit... worked good for me. I hope you get it straightened out... consulting an attorney may be in your best interests.
 
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