Powder coat oven

[Project_shadow]

I acquired a household oven to use for my powder coating projects, I need to rewire the oven to use the plug I have for my 220 in the garage, the plug on the oven is 4 prong, and the plug supplying 220 is a 3 prong, each includes the grounding prong, how would I go about swapping this plug from 4 prong to 3 prong? Should the white be able to go to red or black 120v hot and work fine? Or would I need a jumper wire from the back of the oven to the white wire supplying the interface of the control panel?


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[Bad Habit]

On dryers they jumper the white lead to the ground. The white is the neutral, or more correctly, the grounded conductor (as opposed to the grounding conductor)

 

[Aceman]

You have a 50 amp 4 wire 240/120v male cord end.

You have a 50 amp 240v receptacle.

I let the others explain the issues with the mismatched cord end and recep as well as the potential pitfalls with having a 240/120v appliance that needs to plug into a 240/120v recep, which you don't have. You have a straight rated 240v device.

 

[pattenp]

There is no safe way to use your existing outlet. You should add a proper circuit for the stove.

 

[Project_shadow]

After some research, this oven is able to be converted from 4 prong to 3 prong by connecting the white neutral to ground, because its able to be wired for older homes, and is safe to use on this circuit as it is the exact same plug that is in my kitchen, both have 240 volts and my stove is newer and wired for my 240 plug the same way in my kitchen
Thanks for the insite

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[Bert_]

After some research, this oven is able to be converted from 4 prong to 3 prong by connecting the white neutral to ground, because its able to be wired for older homes, and is safe to use on this circuit as it is the exact same plug that is in my kitchen, both have 240 volts and my stove is newer and wired for my 240 plug the same way in my kitchen
Thanks for the insite

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Still illegal with the plug you have on the wall.

The neutral and ground could be bonded if you had a 10-50 receptacle which has 2 hots and a neutral but no ground.

You have a 6-50 receptacle which has 2 hots and a ground, no neutral. It is not safe to use the ground to carry neutral current.

 

[Project_shadow]

Still illegal with the plug you have on the wall.



The neutral and ground could be bonded if you had a 10-50 receptacle which has 2 hots and a neutral but no ground.



You have a 6-50 receptacle which has 2 hots and a ground, no neutral. It is not safe to use the ground to carry neutral current.

So my kitchen stove is illegally wired from the electrician that installed it? Because it's exactly the same stove and wiring, and the neutral is jumped there as well

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[alfredeneuman]

So my kitchen stove is illegally wired from the electrician that installed it?

If the recp is a 6-50 it is

 

[Bert_]

So my kitchen stove is illegally wired from the electrician that installed it? Because it's exactly the same stove and wiring, and the neutral is jumped there as well

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10-50 is not the same as 6-50 receptacle. One is legal the other isn't. Both have 3 prongs but they aren't the same.

6-50 that you posted a picture of has never been used for a stove receptacle.

 

[Project_shadow]

10-50 is not the same as 6-50 receptacle. One is legal the other isn't. Both have 3 prongs but they aren't the same.

6-50 that you posted a picture of has never been used for a stove receptacle.

Two were bought at the same time and installed, so neither is legal apparently

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[wyliesdiesels]

Two were bought at the same time and installed, so neither is legal apparently

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If you have a 6-50r in your kitchen for the oven it is completely wrong, illegal and potentially a shock hazard.

What type of cable or wire is feeding these outlets? 6/2 NM-b? If so then you have neutral current running on a bare ground conductor.

If a licensed electrician installed this then he needs to be slapped upside the head.

How long ago was the one in your kitchen installed?

 

[Project_shadow]

If you have a 6-50r in your kitchen for the oven it is completely wrong, illegal and potentially a shock hazard.



What type of cable or wire is feeding these outlets? 6/2 NM-b? If so then you have neutral current running on a bare ground conductor.



If a licensed electrician installed this then he needs to be slapped upside the head.



How long ago was the one in your kitchen installed?

Wiring Is from 1974, no idea on type, and 3 years ago

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[finn]

There’s two ways to wire it: the correct way and the “it’ll work” way.

One way is ok, the other might be ok, too.... until you have a problem.

If the factory schematic shows a work around, it’s probably been deemed safe by the manufacturer.

That doesn’t make it code compliant for a new installation.

It’s usually not that hard to rewire a circuit with a proper ground.

 

[Project_shadow]

Schematics from the oven in question
Now wiring it like this would be straight 240v right? Or why not? Theres 2 white, 2 black, and 2 ground from my plug, also, the washer and dryer used to be in the garage, and ran off of this circuit, are dryers straight 240v or not?
Explain in layman's terms as well because I'm not an electrician, I'll rebuild whatever engine you want but that's where my knowledge pretty well stops, I've replaced the outlets in the house myself and most of the light switches after learning how and why those are done how they are, but this is confusing for me as it has 240v and it's a 240v object that says on it that it can be wired to three prong but I'm not understanding why it's a bad idea?
What's the difference between the two, or why the receptical would matter if it's the same voltage?

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[Bert_]

Wiring Is from 1974, no idea on type, and 3 years ago

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If the kitchen wiring is from '74 that almost guarantee's that it's using a 10-50 receptacle. Which is legal and not the same receptacle as the picture you posted.

The stove uses 120 AND 240, dryer is the same. Back in the day you were allowed to bond the frame of the appliance to the NEUTRAL. It would use a 10-50 receptacle which has 2 hots and a neutral NO ground.

The 6-50 you have pictured is two hots and a ground. The ground is not made to carry current all the time.

 

[metlmunchr]

You need to first take the cover off the receptacle and see whether there's a ground wire or a neutral in there. Ground would be bare while a neutral would be white, assuming the original wiring followed normal convention. Whichever of these is there would be connected to the lower half round terminal.

Your wiring diagrams on the oven assume there's a neutral in the receptacle. Because the oven has a light and possibly some controls that use 120V, a neutral is required. The possible danger doesn't come from the type of receptacle used, but rather from the possibility that there's no neutral. That would mean any 120V power is derived from a hot and a bare ground which is a dangerous situation.

If you find a neutral in the receptacle, then you can replace the receptacle with a NEMA 10-50 receptacle and use a matching plug on the cord. If you find a ground in the receptacle, then you really need to run a new circuit with a neutral as well as changing out the devices to 10-50.

If you look at the diagram for the 3 wire hookup, there's a ground strap between the neutral lug and the appliance frame. A 10-50 is indirectly grounded via the neutral, and that's the purpose of this connection.

So where would a 6-50 with just two hots and a ground be used? A 240 volt welder would be an example where there's no need for any 120V power. Another would be an electric heater where both the fan motor and the heating coils are operating at 240V. IOW, any device that needs 240V only, and has no need for 120V.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wiring Is from 1974, no idea on type, and 3 years ago

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So an electrician swapped the 10-50 outlet for a 6-50 outlet in your kitchen?

Why?

You need to open the outlets in the kitchen and garage and see what type of wire is there.

 

[sberry]

Appliance stores/installers should be inspected, they turn the uninformed and untrained loose on homes all the time. I just ran across a dryer wired wrong, on top of that couldn't be bothered to use a cord connector either.
This is something I fix and run new circuits for every time I get a chance.

 

[tdkkart]

What's the difference between the two, or why the receptical would matter if it's the same voltage?

The difference is that one of them produces 240V, and the other one produces 240V.

One of them can also produce 120V.

Legally.

According to today's code.

Of course, if your house has the same breaker panel that used to be inside every house in America, your grounds and neutrals are all tied together, in which case IT REALLY DOESN"T MATTER.

Functionally.

But not legally.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The difference is that one of them produces 240V, and the other one produces 120v/240V.

One of them can also produce 120V.

Legally.

According to today's code.

Of course, if your house has the same breaker panel that used to be inside every house in America, your grounds and neutrals are all tied together, in which case IT REALLY DOESN"T MATTER.

Functionally.

But not legally.

Fixed it for you in bold red.

And it does matter IF the circuit terminates to a subpanel. Also matters if the wire feeding the outlet has a bare ground wire. IF someone hooked a 120v/240v stove with a bonded neutral to a 6-50r outlet that is fed with NM which has a bare ground wire, then that creates a shock potential since neutral current is flowing on the grounding conductor.

The devil is in the details and we havent been provided enough details to definitively come to a conclusion.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Does the oven have digital controls or a dial?
If not digital, then the 120V may just be for the light and clock (if it has one).
The actual heating elements run on 240, and if you're willing to sacrifice the light & clock, it will run on just 240.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Does the oven have digital controls or a dial?
If not digital, then the 120V may just be for the light and clock (if it has one).
The actual heating elements run on 240, and if you're willing to sacrifice the light & clock, it will run on just 240.

He's calling it an oven but from the pictures to me it looks like a stove.

 

[Project_shadow]

He's calling it an oven but from the pictures to me it looks like a stove.

2 white, 2 black, ground in plug in garage
"Stove" is digital
Minimal run time, hour tops in span of a week

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[wyliesdiesels]

2 white, 2 black, ground in plug in garage
"Stove" is digital
Minimal run time, hour tops in span of a week

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2 whites 2 blacks?

what kind of wire is this? Is the outlet fed by conduit or is it NM-b aka Romex? Can you post some pics?

 

[Project_shadow]

2 whites 2 blacks?



what kind of wire is this? Is the outlet fed by conduit or is it NM-b aka Romex? Can you post some pics?

Solid copper, looks like two seperate circuits ran to box, the wiring of the house has no conduit, just stapled to the frame work, from what I've seen in the attic, I'm not going to be around the house this weekend to get any pictures, and not much time during the week to get out to the garage so I'll see what I can do

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[wyliesdiesels]

Wow so someone ran 2 pieces of romex to feed that outlet?

What is the gauge of the wire?

Sounds like one of the ground wires was cut off as well since you only have 1 ground wire.

What a mess.

Youre gonna have to run new wire.

Is the garage attached or detached?

 

[Project_shadow]

Wow so someone ran 2 pieces of romex to feed that outlet?

What is the gauge of the wire?

Sounds like one of the ground wires was cut off as well since you only have 1 ground wire.

What a mess.

Youre gonna have to run new wire.

Is the garage attached or detached?

Attached single car, is it possible to leave this plug that powers all my other 240 equipment and run a new circuit just for the oven?
Is there a way to run a new circuit but adapt my welders, plasma torch, compressor, ect to it?


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[alfredeneuman]

is it possible to leave this plug that powers all my other 240 equipment

Not with the way it's hooked up now.

You need to know what size the wire is and if one of them is complete with a Black, White, and ground.
It's prohibited to have 2 different cables feeding one device.

 

[Project_shadow]

Appliances used the be gas, at some point between 74 and 98 the electrical was ran for electric appliances, just from the research done going through old documents I have from buying the house

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[wyliesdiesels]

Attached single car, is it possible to leave this plug that powers all my other 240 equipment and run a new circuit just for the oven?
Is there a way to run a new circuit but adapt my welders, plasma torch, compressor, ect to it?


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Since we can already tell that its a cluster f*ck, there is no way currently to ascertain whether its useable or if it needs to be rewired.

As to the compressor, need to know the HP rating on the motor. Then need to know what gauge wire you currently have.

Appliances used the be gas, at some point between 74 and 98 the electrical was ran for electric appliances, just from the research done going through old documents I have from buying the house

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Well if you have 2 different cables feeding the outlet that wont work.

Can you take some pics and post em here. That would help immensely.

 

[alfredeneuman]

As to the compressor, need to know the HP rating on the motor.

When you die this ^^^^^ will be engraved on your headstone

 

[wyliesdiesels]

When you die this ^^^^^ will be engraved on your headstone

Its amazing how many times i have to repeat this every week on here.

 

[Project_shadow]

With that response it's like asking something on facebook, I come here to get actual help and information, not **** posted by trolls
I have an electrician coming out Saturday, for those that helped and explained thanks,
Electrician will be out friday


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[wyliesdiesels]

With that response it's like asking something on facebook, I come here to get actual help and information, not **** posted by trolls
I have an electrician coming out Saturday, for those that helped and explained thanks,
Electrician will be out friday


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not sure who youre directing that towards but neither of us are trolls and we both contribute quite a bit on here.

Also, hopefully the electrician that originally installed all this mess is not the one coming out friday or saturday.

 

[alfredeneuman]

With that response it's like asking something on facebook, I come here to get actual help and information, not **** posted by trolls

In a different thread you criticized a fellow employee on 1/28 with "he cant diag simple air, electrical, ..... systems"

You're in the same boat as he is in regards to electrical systems.

 

[Project_shadow]

In a different thread you criticized a fellow employee on 1/28 with "he cant diag simple air, electrical, ..... systems"



You're in the same boat as he is in regards to electrical systems.

[emoji106]

Negative, I dont **** with **** that'll burn down my house, I'm not licensed to do so, I am licensed to perform electrical and pneumatic testing on heavy duty equipment, its vastly different with less amperage and voltage, I've repaired my oven, fridge, and ac, all work perfectly, but I call a plumber for my furnace and water heater as those are systems I'm not familiar with as well as residential electrical systems
Telling me what I need on my headstone is more than enough for me to pay someone else to do it that be disrespected by people I asked for help from to sort out confusion i was having, no one here knew **** at one point, I help any one I can because it's a ****** feeling not knowing how to do something,
The tech in question is not licensed to be doing the repairs as his school was not accredited and therefore could not obtain the ase certs that I have, I've gone out of my way many times to teach him but he doesnt want to learn, and there fore doesnt ask questions and loses axles from under semis, I'd rather ask people before I attempt a new repair rather than jump into it, I'm looking for suggestions and directions, not a smart *** comment on information I'm not able to obtain quickly
And since I just got home, my circuit is 50a through a single white, single black, and bare ground at the recepticle, and the draw on the compressor is 15.5, after three years of running 3 welders and hundreds of cycles through the compressor on this circuit that is it's own circuit, electrician said it should be fine for those but might need to run a new circuit after he inspects the house wiring


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[alfredeneuman]

Telling me what I need on my headstone

If you read what I wrote you'll realize that I was responding to Wylie, not you

 

[KaiserJeep]

We just went through this - acquired a spare oven/range for some home-cooked powdercoating in the shop. I temporarily swapped the welder receptacle for one that matched the pigtail on the oven/range. Flipped the breaker, and did our cooking, everything worked just fine, even the digital controls/timer. Granted, I won't leave that receptacle there all the time, as it is needed for the welder, but it worked fine for cooking the powdercoat.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Negative, I dont **** with **** that'll burn down my house, I'm not licensed to do so, I am licensed to perform electrical and pneumatic testing on heavy duty equipment, its vastly different with less amperage and voltage, I've repaired my oven, fridge, and ac, all work perfectly, but I call a plumber for my furnace and water heater as those are systems I'm not familiar with as well as residential electrical systems
Telling me what I need on my headstone is more than enough for me to pay someone else to do it that be disrespected by people I asked for help from to sort out confusion i was having, no one here knew **** at one point, I help any one I can because it's a ****** feeling not knowing how to do something,
The tech in question is not licensed to be doing the repairs as his school was not accredited and therefore could not obtain the ase certs that I have, I've gone out of my way many times to teach him but he doesnt want to learn, and there fore doesnt ask questions and loses axles from under semis, I'd rather ask people before I attempt a new repair rather than jump into it, I'm looking for suggestions and directions, not a smart *** comment on information I'm not able to obtain quickly
And since I just got home, my circuit is 50a through a single white, single black, and bare ground at the recepticle, and the draw on the compressor is 15.5, after three years of running 3 welders and hundreds of cycles through the compressor on this circuit that is it's own circuit, electrician said it should be fine for those but might need to run a new circuit after he inspects the house wiring


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wow total reading comprehension failure here.

His headstone comment was to me not you. smh go back and reread it.

 

[CudaChick1968]

From the sounds of things it'd be easier to just farm your powder work out. LOL