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Powder coating questions. Any type of powder?

Gamble

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Looking to get into some minor powder coating and practice a bit this weekend.
I know harbor freight has them, but they don't have many colors.
Can I use any powder from any place? Do places like michaels or hobby lobby sell the actual powder?
 
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Catamount

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I doubt a hobby store sells powder. I don't even know where to get it locally, so I buy it from "powder by the pound" (online).

If you're in a hurry, an auto body store might have some.
 
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Gamble

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I was hoping any powder would do. I don't know anyone ggat sells it local aside from harbor freight.
 

Catamount

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I'm not quite sure what you mean by "any powder". You can't just throw Gold Bond on there and hope it'll work! If you're just looking to experiment, I'd use whatever cheap stuff HF has.
 
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Gamble

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I've done it in the past, I just didn't know if there was anything special to the powder.
 

zcbauer89

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Just order from Eastwood and forget about it. They have a lot of powder colors and are great to deal with.
 
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Gamble

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Seems like $15 for 1/2 plus shipping. How long does 1/2 a pound last?
I had a deal for a little toaster oven that fell through but hoping to get one today and practice this weekend. I have black, but really wanted some wrinkle black. At least the stuff at harbor freight is only $3 a bottle.

What's the proper way to clean the gun for switching colors?

And is a preheating on necessary on every part?
 

Catamount

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You've got a lot of very basic questions. I highly recommend you read up here: http://forum.eastwood.com/forumdisplay.php?9-Powder-Coating

1/2 pound goes a long way if only have a toaster oven. Think about how light powder is. Find a free range with a broken top (craigslist) and put a 220V outlet in your garage... that's what I did.

Even with a full size range, I'm still a hobbyist and 1/2 pound would last me a very long time. You clean the gun using compressed air to blow out all powder residue. I usually don't preheat unless the part is cast and I'm suspicious about trapped gas.

Anyway, do some reading... there is a lot to learn! It's really fun once you get going though.
 

CudaChick1968

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You have much to learn indeed :D ... and we all had to start somewhere.

First off, forget Eastwood -- all they do is sell you other manufacturer's stuff at a 30-40% price hike. With a little research you can do a lot better than that and have a lot more colors to choose from.

Powder coating powders are made from a variety of ingredients including acrylic, polyester, polyurethane, epoxy, etc. (and hybrids which contain more than one), and each has its own inherent uses and applications.

Generally speaking, a half pound of powder is equivalent in price and coverage to three rattle cans of spray paint so a little bit goes a long way.

I've been at this since 1999 (practicing on my own parts on my old hot rod) and have been at it full time now since 2007. Despite almost 15 years in the industry and undertaking work that no one else on the planet will try to do ...

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I just finished these up yesterday ...

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... I will NEVER ever call myself an expert ... because that's the day I'll quit learning anything new.

The choices and results are virtually limitless with the different kinds of powders available -- glossy, matte, wrinkle, veins, rivers, candy translucents and special effects -- and the only way to get comfortable with it is to pretty much jump in with both feet, give it a try, and don't be afraid of what's going to happen. Sadly, you won't learn much sitting on your **** reading about someone else's experiences straight up simply because solely in my opinion most of the people who devote time to posting on powder coating forums aren't out there actually coating anything when it comes down to it. They're just passing on someone else's (usually wrong) information.

I also can't recommend that you invest a bunch of money into top-of-the-line equipment, at least not at this early juncture, but you can always move up if it turns out you really enjoy it like I did.

I wish you every success!! :D Keep us posted on your progress and don't be afraid to ask questions.
 
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Gamble

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Cuda,
Your pics aren't showing up, or my laptop is being wacky.
Between yesterday and today here are a few things I've spit out on the cnc table, hit with a old flap wheel and powder coated. Didn't sandblast them yet, because I hate my sandblaster. So that's the next project to tackle.

I ended up getting a fairly large toaster oven from the good will store. Actually it's a george foreman chicken rotisserie for all of $9+tax. For now I think it's great, I hit on, set the minutes to anywhere between 25-30, 450* and walk away. I think it has 4 elements and you can choose how many you want on. So I choose all 4 and it heats up, and turns off when it's done. can't be any more simple than that.

Some quick things I spit out this weekend, also playing with a cheap powder coating setup at home.





The imperial coaster, I missed a spot on the back and had to touch it up. The batman coaster I shot at 100psi because I forgot tor turn it down so there is a little orange peel on the back side. The clock and key holder are ok. Little too much on the back of one of them. All in all it's not bad, it's fun and easy. And I don't have to pay anyone to do it. I just need to move things around and get a more permanent setup. I want to get the WAI gun that doesn't need the air compressor as it would just make things easier.

I plan to pick up some pink and purple and blue powder next. I rather not get it from eastwood, who else has a decent powder at a decent price?
 
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Crow Horse

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How does the hobbyist sidestep the wash/pretreatment step? Washing and curing arguably are the most important steps....
 
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Crow Horse

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WD40 shouldn't be used. Lacquer thinner is a better substitute. Parts should be thoroughly degreased and in a perfect world, phosphatized (bath or spray)(zinc or iron) to create a conversion coating that among other things, prevents corrosion....We preheat everything only to remove any water from washing.....

An IR non contact thermometer is indispensable for proper curing. Oven temp is irrelevant. The object being baked is what is important. Our ovens runs at 500° and we have to monitor the actual temp of the products......
 
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Gamble

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I lost my large container of acetone and wd40 was the only thing staring at me in the face lol.
 

CudaChick1968

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Without impacting your substrate somehow, all you're doing is applying a covering to your metal, you aren't BINDING the powder with it.

Under a microscope, blasted metal has mountains and valleys. Powder goes on so finely that it self-levels; the composition of chemicals melts and it basically becomes part of the metal. That's what makes a good, properly-prepped powder coating job so much more durable and long lasting than a paint job.

You can't really "sidestep" your prep work and expect your job to last a snowball's chance in hell. Without removing all the scale, impurities, corrosion/rust, your fingerprints (the oils in your skin can even make marks), etc., all you're doing is encapsulating all of that **** under a plastic coating. What you'll eventually experience is a defect called "creep" where one nasty spot spreads over the entire substrate metal underneath your powder ... and then it starts coming off in sheets.

Take Crow Horse's awesome advice including the phosphate too, most especially if you're taking the low road and not going to blast anything. It'll help keep some of the corrosion at bay, at least for a while longer than not using it.

Preheating your metal to a temp higher than your powder requires -- the verb form of "outgassing" ** -- helps to remove the air and impurities trapped in the metal when it was originally formed, and you can then just blast it all away, wash your metal, phosphate it, powder it and cure it. Outgassing is essential when working with aluminum (especially old used greasy aluminum because it's so porous).

Gamble, I don't know why my pictures wouldn't show up for you but I'm betting my website will. :D http://PhoenixSpecialtyCoatings.com Some of the stuff I posted earlier isn't on there yet though (I don't have a lot of time for the computer).


** The noun form of outgassing is the results you see when you look very closely at the finished part or run your hand over it. If you see or feel little bumps (they look like a teeny volcano under a microscope), those are the trapped impurities, air and lack of prep work coming through your cured powder.
 
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Crow Horse

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Exactly what CudaChick said.......

I have distance markers for my rifle range that I powder coated about 5 years ago. They stay out all year and they are in direct sunlight. They look like the day that I pulled them from the oven. Prep is everything.....
 

ChevyEFI

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Preheating your metal to a temp higher than your powder requires -- the verb form of "outgassing" ** -- helps to remove the air and impurities trapped in the metal when it was originally formed, and you can then just blast it all away, wash your metal, phosphate it, powder it and cure it. Outgassing is essential when working with aluminum (especially old used greasy aluminum because it's so porous).
If you have time to elaborate on cleaning of alum. castings (that are largely not blasted) and making them as clean as reasonably possible, I'd love to hear it.

Is a general degreasing wash, phosphate (a version that is acid) and then baking a casting a possible way to get best results?
 

FriendOfYours

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Just go to any powder coating shop near you and ask to buy some. I haven't found one yet that won't sell what they have

WAY cheaper and quicker
 

Crow Horse

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Here's what we do with problematic cast aluminum. First we'll wash/degrease it, then DA it. Then it will sit in the oven at 400° for 2 hours to "outgas" and hopefully purge the impurities. If it's pock marked, we'll use Lab Metal to fill them and then after 24 hours, they'll sit in the oven for another hour. From here there's more DAing and then it's off to the wash bay for the standard phosphatizing/wash.......
 

Crow Horse

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Regarding phosphatizing....
There's some chemistry involved that you'll need to know. Testing the phosphating agent via titration to get the dillution right is important. This might not be practical for the hobbyist...
Testing the wash water for ph, total dissolved solids (TDS, limit of 500 ppm), temp also plays a role in the product quality.....
 
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Gamble

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I am looking to change to the gun that has a built in fan. Anyone know where I can get more containers or hoppers for it at?
 

Movin/on

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Bringing a 5 year old post up to find out what updates/improvements in materials have occurred. Secondly to find out which product will fill pits in a 1957 Lincoln V eight valve cover prior to powder coating. Quite sure some of the epoxy body fillers will not stand up to 450F temperatures.

What do you use to fill pits prior to powder coating?

Movin/on
 

CudaChick1968

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Traditional "powder coating fillers" haven't changed (and are still totally lame in my opinion). My unconventional go-to high temp metal filler has been discontinued so I'm thankful I stocked up and that a little goes a long way.


The only materials developments I'm aware of in the last few years are better low-temp cure powders for wood, MDF, plastic, etc. There is even a portable system for swimming pool liners that cures in sunlight. Chrome replica powders are always getting introduced by suppliers, some better than others; the most remarkable advance is that a clear topcoat is no longer necessary if you get the right powder -- they've made a decent chrome replica in a single stage that kind of resembles chrome and is actually UV stable unlike its predecessors.
 

kkroger

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Powder Buy the Pound, Columbia Coatings, Prismatic Powders all powder paints and a few others offer non commercial quantities at a minor savings over eastwood... the quantity or coverage you get from a pound or half pound is dependent on the efficiency of your application equipment...
 
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