Power company ran wire over property

[toolmiser]

They are installing some new poles in neighborhood. They installed one across the street from me that is 15 ft away from the existing one, and the wires cut across my property to back yard pole in easement. I've talked to utility supervisor who said there were too many underground utilities to put it where it should have been put.

He said he could add a pole to the end of my front yard complete with guy wires (in their easement) but I wouldn't like the looks of that.

I get the feeling they are shoving it down my throat and I should like it or else this will happen. I asked why they didn't ask or tell me ahead of time. He said it was contracted out-bs.

Three years ago I had taken down a big tree because it was into their wires, and replace it with one that would get tall but not wide. Guess where the new wires go-almost right above the tree.

Is there any "government agency" or someone who would help me with this issue? I don't like getting something "rammed down my throat" and told the alternate is worse?

I guess I could talk to a lawyer, maybe it's a waste of time. At the worse point it's about 10' over my property line and they don't contest that.

Thanks!

 

[KenC]

First order of business is to get an accurate 'map' of all easements. Then discuss the placement relative to the easement. If they are within the easement you probably have no options. If not, time to negotiate.

 

[toolmiser]

They are definitely inside my property line. City surveyor showed me where the corner "pin" is and I drew an accurate map. City also sent me a map a couple years ago as they installed a new street and sidewalk.

How do I negotiate? Sounds more like "blackmail"? He said accept the wire or we will stick a pole in your (easement) yard that I don't want.

 

[Jlarson]

You need the accurate, surveyed, legal easement descriptions though. They may very well be in their easement.

 

[Steve.S]

Talk with your state’s Public Utilities Commission or its equivalent.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Running into the same sort of **** here as well. The company is converting to underground and wanted to place not one but two boxes (one large and one small) on my property. The large one would be just inside the easement as they "prefer" to run lines on private property as then they do not need to deal with other utilities. Um, no.

 

[dsimatt]

This spring they came thru around here cutting down any and every tree that was within I can't remember if it was 50 or 100ft of the power lines. They might have more easement space than you think and might not have a choice on what they do.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Insist that they fix it and they will legally add a pole to the end of your front yard complete with guy wires (in their easement). You won't like the looks of that and won't be able to get them to change it.
Is there a reason they can't do it like it was?

 

[rustrunner]

Tell them to hold the old pole with a boom, cut the the pole off and remove the lower part. Them they can redig the hole and install new pole.

 

[James E]

Jlarson is right. Property line isn’t the important issue here. The width of the power company’s easement is. If their easement comes into your property by 10’ or more, there’s nothing you can do other than rely on the kindness of the guy at the power company.

 

[PassnThru]

He said he could add a pole to the end of my front yard complete with guy wires (in their easement) but I wouldn't like the looks of that.

Sounds like you need to decide if you would rather have an overhead line or guy wires in your yard.
As said previously, your property line includes an easement and you don't have much say in what happens in that easement.
People complain about easements when they don't suit them but they are a necessary evil. Without them, any ONE person could deny ANY utility reaching your house.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Typically, states have a Public Service Commission, or similar, and power company districts have chief engineers. You want to talk to both of those. For my power problem, the chief engineer came down, took one look, said WTF, apologized to me, and ordered the lineman who did the bad work to sort it out on unpaid OT. Problem solved.

 

[PassnThru]

For my power problem, the chief engineer came down, took one look, said WTF, apologized to me, and ordered the lineman who did the bad work to sort it out on unpaid OT. Problem solved.

Can you elaborate? Knowing you, it could be anything from an improper connection at the transformer or a placement that you didn't like.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Can you elaborate? Knowing you, it could be anything from an improper connection at the transformer or a placement that you didn't like.

Knowing me? I like that!
They ran power lines across my property, violating the easement boundaries and a gas line to a house a quarter mile away, on another road, with no easement in place. All because it was easier for the help to take a few shortcuts and hit the local bar earlier.

 

[ard]

Most 'easements' arent an open permission to do anything they want.

Like can they build a poco office in the easement? No, easements usually included descriptive text around what is permitted.

Do you have that?

Oh, put in a sequoia instead. When it runs into the wires, they cannot make you trim it. One zero cost way of forcing the issue...



Oh, maybe your state and your poco would be useful. What works in one state can be utterly different that works where I am (or any of these other posters)

 

[BillK]

They are definitely inside my property line. .

That does not mean a thing if there is a utility easement. My lot has a 12' easement along the street. It is my property but the county can pretty much do what they want on it if they want to.

What you need to find is a copy of your survey that you got when you bought the house. It will show any easements on the property. If there is an easement then they can use it. You should have seen it on the survey when you went to settlement.

 

[CTyankee]

How would you feel if they had done it "by the book" to start with? Personally, I'd rather have the extra pole if it straightens out the line. Curious as to whether or not the thier easement follows the wire now? If so..I'd definitely have them move it.

 

[PassnThru]

Knowing me? I like that!

We all know you - I'm currently married but who knows what could happen....

They ran power lines across my property, violating the easement boundaries and a gas line to a house a quarter mile away, on another road, with no easement in place. All because it was easier for the help to take a few shortcuts and hit the local bar earlier.

Just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing. They violated the easement in your case - not sure that is what is happening here.

 

[EOC_Jason]

If they are within their easement then you are SOL... Otherwise you need to have a nice chat with your state’s Public Utilities Commission or its equivalent.

 

[jb3]

Im trying to understand the problem here.

They moved the original pole location they say because of underground utilties and its done, correct? So thats not changing and theres a plausible reason.

Then there is a wire that enters the OPs airspace. The OP doesnt like that so the power company suggests a solution that the OP also doesnt like.

Choose one and live with it.

Personally id choose the secondary phone pole and support wires.

Phone poles and power lines are some of the most hideous installations there are, and you almost immediately start to ignore them subconsciously. They are in front of nearly everyones pretty little house with white picket fence and garden gnomes, and no one cares. A necessary and unavoidable evil. Chances are the OP would forget he doesnt like the second phone pole within a week.

 

[HoosierMark]

Lets make this simple. You state the county engineer showed you where the corner pin was. Now go to the courthouse and get a copy of the subdivision plat or survey of your lot. It should show what easements are present on it but may not if the survey was done prior to granting. (lot platted in 1960 and owner in 1970 granted an easement for example). Now go to recorders office and ask for a copy of easements on your property. They may have something maybe not. Once you have this you can see what the power company and anyone else has the right to do to your property. Since you know where your corner is you can somewhat lay things out and visually see where the easements are.
I just went to the courthouse to pick up a copy of an existing easement for a client. He has an easement crossing a tillable field. Now another power company claims they will use the same poles and put up a lower line on them. But they want a new easement with rather a rather vague description. Yea, why do they need a new easement when the old easement gives the first elec company the right to assign use of the easement. Something is not right so I will get my facts together before I have a conversation about the proposed easement. You need to do the same. You may find out that they are screwing you or treating you very fair in a poor situation. Life is fun.

 

[CTyankee]

Im trying to understand the problem here.

They moved the original pole location they say because of underground utilties and its done, correct? So thats not changing and theres a plausible reason.

Then there is a wire that enters the OPs airspace. The OP doesnt like that so the power company suggests a solution that the OP also doesnt like.

Choose one and live with it.

Personally id choose the secondary phone pole and support wires.

That's the way I interpreted it too..but what do I know...I only actually read the OP's post.

Chances are the OP would forget he doesnt like the second phone pole within a week.

X 10

 

[Two Speed]

They are definitely inside my property line. City surveyor showed me where the corner "pin" is and I drew an accurate map. City also sent me a map a couple years ago as they installed a new street and sidewalk.

The easement may very well be inside your property line. The fence in my backyard is on the property line, but, buried utilities, the easement is 4 feet inside of the fence. If I put up a utility shed along the back fence, tough luck for me if they need to come in to dig.

 

[toolmiser]

There are not easements on my property. The power lines run on the "city property" between my property and the street. I live on a corner lot. An existing pole is in my neighbors back yard, wires paralleling the street until they installed the new pole across the street from my corner and about 15-20' further north. Now the new line cuts across my property about halfway up the side and 10' across my corner. A big triangle. Hard to explain, and my measurements for where the wires cross are estimates, hard to guage wires 30' into the air, but when is sight pole to pole they are directly across my property.

 

[James E]

So, out of pure curiosity, how do you know that there are no easements on the property?

I ask because AFAIK, the only way to “know” in a legal sense, is to have a survey in your hands.

And if you have that, then you don’t need to ask the question. Most places don’t let the power company hang lines across property they don’t control.

So if that’s the case, then they need to move the line and it sounds like to do that, they’ll need to put up another pole across the street—which I assume is someone else’s property. Which also means you don’t have any say in how they set that up.

So, look up and see a wire or look across the street and see two poles.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

I get the feeling they are shoving it down my throat…

Was it good for you too?

Sorry this is happening to you.

 

[Pluribus]

Personally, I don't like things that burden my property. I'd take the additional unsightly pole in the city's property on my side of the street before I'd let them span over my property.

By not saying anything after a certain amount of time, you would likely create a prescriptive easement (similar concept to adverse possession) for those overhead wires. In the future, you could potentially end up with both a pole in front AND the wires above, and there wouldn't be a thing you could do about it.

Can't decipher your description of the coverage, but what happens if you were to want to build or put something underneath where the wires span, even if it's just a tree, let alone a building? Now you're not just talking about a wire going over your property but something that renders part of your land unusable for your desired purposes. If you know you'll never want to put anything where it spans your property, you are still eligible for compensation for the overhead easement.

Sounds like the contractor (and/or municipality) is trying to BS, bully, and baffle you into letting them do this. If they want an easement, they need to pay for it. Don't know what the laws are there, but here in WA, you are also entitled to a fixed amount of reimbursement for legal fees ($750 I think) for consulting a lawyer when a utility company wants an easement on your property. That is on top of what they pay for the easement rights, which are negotiable.

 

[SGKent]

Really? I just saw this thread. When you or your ancestor bought the property there was a plat map that showed where the property was. In some states the seller will walk you to the markers to show you the lot and easement boundaries. If the utility companies have an easement they are the ones who get to decide how to use it. You don't. Most utility companies will work with you a little or say replace minor bushes if you have planted some. if they use other than their easement you can go after them for that and force them to stay within the easement. In some states if you say don't worry about it then after a certain number of years it becomes an easement. When I worked and trained staff all over the country for mortgages the laws vary. In some states before you can get a loan or sell the property it must be surveyed again to make sure you haven't put anything on an easement even if what you have done doesn't place a burden on who benefits from the easement - example - if there is a 20' easement to allow utility trucks to service a drainage ditch and some poles, and you put a pool on say 1' of it so they still have 19' and plenty of room, you will be asked to rip that corner of the pool out. Easements are normally created with a deed of some sorts and they are binding. They can be abandoned. It is not uncommon to see old railroad easements show up on a deed for a long abandoned right of way for say a spur or electric car line. But until they are formally abandoned the owner is still bound by them if they decide to put the tracks back in and run lightrail on them. As to the wire - if you are really concerned and don't know - pay a surveyor to put in some stakes where the easement begins and ends, width etc. Then compare that to the wire.

 

[ard]

Just because someone said "we'll have to put in a pole and you wont like it" does NOT mean it is true.

Id press the issue - in writing- and see what actual solutions might be offered.

Oh, a easement for 'public utility purposes' is far different than an easement 'for no more than 3 overhead wires'. The former allows poles, multiple poles, guy wires, sewer, water, trenching, blah blah.

 

[CTyankee]

Really? I just saw this thread. When you or your ancestor bought the property there was a plat map that showed where the property was. In some states the seller will walk you to the markers to show you the lot and easement boundaries. If the utility companies have an easement they are the ones who get to decide how to use it. You don't. Most utility companies will work with you a little or say replace minor bushes if you have planted some. if they use other than their easement you can go after them for that and force them to stay within the easement. In some states if you say don't worry about it then after a certain number of years it becomes an easement. When I worked and trained staff all over the country for mortgages the laws vary. In some states before you can get a loan or sell the property it must be surveyed again to make sure you haven't put anything on an easement even if what you have done doesn't place a burden on who benefits from the easement - example - if there is a 20' easement to allow utility trucks to service a drainage ditch and some poles, and you put a pool on say 1' of it so they still have 19' and plenty of room, you will be asked to rip that corner of the pool out. Easements are normally created with a deed of some sorts and they are binding. They can be abandoned. It is not uncommon to see old railroad easements show up on a deed for a long abandoned right of way for say a spur or electric car line. But until they are formally abandoned the owner is still bound by them if they decide to put the tracks back in and run lightrail on them. As to the wire - if you are really concerned and don't know - pay a surveyor to put in some stakes where the easement begins and ends, width etc. Then compare that to the wire.

`

Unless the OP is lying, I'm pretty sure he's aware of any easements that exist and has told us so. As I...and Pluribus have mentioned, I'd be concerned that if the power company did what he says they did, they could now claim a new easement on his property where the new wire was run. Honestly I can't see how they were even allowed to do what they did without consent from the HO.

I'd rather put up with the extra pole and keep the power company restricted within their existing easements. The current situation seems likely to lead to worse issues in the future than just an extra pole. JMO.

 

[ard]

Honestly I can't see how they were even allowed to do what they did without consent from the HO.

Do you think there is some master controller/authority in the world that makes sure big companies follow the rules?

I see this constantly- mostly by employees of large companies... 'Well, if we did it, it must be allowed- becuase there are a ton of rules here and we always follow rules. So you must be wrong". Think cell phone companies; cable, utilities..mortgage...car..the list goes on.


Anyway...

The people who manage this are 'Right of Way Agents'...they work for utilities/companies to try and make sure the legal right exists for the work the company is doing. The construction crew gets a green light, the line goes in. Nobody looks back unless HO files a written complaint that creates a legal stake in the ground. (So to speak) makes it hard for them to ignore it, as now they knowingly have a non-complaint install. IMO

 

[bushmechanic]

They are definitely inside my property line. City surveyor showed me where the corner "pin" is and I drew an accurate map. City also sent me a map a couple years ago as they installed a new street and sidewalk.

How do I negotiate? Sounds more like "blackmail"? He said accept the wire or we will stick a pole in your (easement) yard that I don't want.

Not all of your property is for your own personal use. You'll need to ensure you fully understand where those areas are.

 

[CTyankee]

Do you think there is some master controller/authority in the world that makes sure big companies follow the rules?

That EXACTLY what I thought! Thanks for the education.

"The people who manage this are 'Right of Way Agents'...they work for utilities/companies to try and make sure the legal right exists for the work the company is doing. The construction crew gets a green light, the line goes in. Nobody looks back unless HO files a written complaint that creates a legal stake in the ground. (So to speak) makes it hard for them to ignore it, as now they knowingly have a non-complaint install. IMO

Maybe that's the people I was talking about. Someone who'd approve the work being done is within their easements and isn't going to result in possible legal action against the company.

 

[ozyborn]

This is exactly why I went through the work on my land. No easements or setbacks. Keep notarized copies. Have had to use it twice on the city and their sidewalk junk. Not on my land. Like others have said. Get it all in writing in cover your legal behind so to speak. Then you can assess your choices.

 

[ard]

OP- if they had NOT placed the pole on the neighboring property so far to the north, would it have prevented the lines from encroaching?

If yes, then you can press them to apply that solution (ie what they should have done in the first place). Because they screwed up to begin, telling you your only option NOW is another pole is BS. Dont let them play that game.

 

[Glory]

Talk with your state’s Public Utilities Commission or its equivalent.

This

 

[awdblazer]

do you have any pics of this all?

 

[DC73]

Oh, put in a sequoia instead. When it runs into the wires, they cannot make you trim it. One zero cost way of forcing the issue...

What works in one state can be utterly different that works where I am (or any of these other posters)

Yeah, that wouldn't fly around here. PoCos have the right to trim trees that are in power lines whether that tree is in an easement or not.

Some other thoughts for the OP to consider: Not all easements are defined. Some are listed in legal documents of an entire subdivision as "blanket easement as needed for service". This language may or may not be listed on any plat of your property but should be included in any documented deed restrictions.

Also, some easements may not be recorded at all. Lines that have been in place for many years are often grandfathered as having an easement even if they did not originally.

Your local city or county planning department might be of some value in determining the status of easements on your property.

Good luck,

DC

 

[toolmiser]

Update: I did a little digging on the internet and found our state has a PSC (Public Service Commission) that regulates utilities. We sent them a nice email explaining what was going on including dates, who we talked with etc.

Got a call from the last person I talked to yesteday from the utility company. He said they would set a pole across the street that would reroute the wires into the "city's easement. Said it might take a couple weeks. They started marking undergrounds today, and utility company was out looking at it this afternoon.

I think they thought they would just shove it down my throat. I thought their whole way of going about this was wrong. Hope this is the resolution.

 

[ard]

Yeah, that wouldn't fly around here. PoCos have the right to trim trees that are in power lines whether that tree is in an easement or not.

But can they trim your trees when THEIR LINE isn't an the easement?


Glad OP seems to be getting it resolved....