Power conditioner needed?

[David Paul]

I know the answer is yes but I'm not sure we're to go from here. I have a Honda EM5000SX backup generator with a manual transfer switch. Has worked great for years powering refreg, well pump, TV, etc. Recently installed a CubetPower BRG1500 AVRLCD UPS for the home theater so the DirecTV receiver wouldn't have to reboot with every power blip.
Today with the high winds here in NJ, power goes out for 5 hours, UPS draws all the way down. No problem I think, start up generator, all will be good. Well, not so much. UPS will not power back on or charge, no love to the TV, etc.
Power back on, UPS powers back up, passes through power and charges.
So I assume the UPS will not power up on the generator due to "dirty" power from the generator. If I had known this I would have spent the extra $$ for the inverter model generator.
So my question ( I know finally ) is what are my options? Not going to buy an inverter generator at this point. Ideally I'd like to get a power conditioner that would clean all the power from the generator, but assume that is going to be very costly although not as much as a new generator. Or do I just get a conditioner for the UPS so it charges when on generator power? If so should I be worried about the well pump, refrigerator that worked fine for 2 weeks during Sandy.
Suggestions for equipment type, specs and brands are greatly appreciated. TIA,
David

 

[kd3pc]

I would read the Honda manual and get with the UPS maker to make sure your grounds are where they are expected to be...

UPS, when dead, go to bulk charge when power reappears, should be beeping as the source goes to Zero...the gennie just can't do it all

then make sure that everything you have plugged in, is not exceeding the inrush limit of the UPS and/or the generator...Ideally you want to start the gennie with no load, then add loads, same with the UPS...either or both may go TxxsUp. Especially if your fridge and well are there full time, you only have a 5KW Honda...supplying...a lot.

I don't think it is merely dirty power from the Gen, Hondas are known for the quality and power conditioners are much more pricey than a good generator and are not working for free...it will cost power to condition, loading your system more than you currently are.

 

[theoldwizard1]

What you want is a true "on line" UPS. Also sometimes called "double conversion". $$$$ !

An online UPS converts all of the power coming to DC and charges the batteries. Then it takes the DC power from the batteries and converts it to AC. You have effectively added in the "inverter" option on the generator. There is a computer chip to monitor voltage, frequencies, temperatures, etc. There is usually a manual bypass switch,

You have to know how to read the specs so that you are getting what you want.


Example

 

[bjcouche]

I would first try to isolate the cause of the problem. The cause could be incorrect frequency, voltage or even wave shape.
I would start the generator and let it warm up for a minute or two. Then plug in a 300-500W halogen shop light. A resistance type heater could also work. The 500W light is to add some load to the generator to allow it to not be running unloaded. They often times have difficulty regulating speed / frequency at no load. I suggest a 500W light because I'm wanting a purely resistive load and not an inductive or capacitive load or something that could cause wave shape issues. Then with the 500W light powered, measure the voltage and frequency with a multimeter if you have one. Then plug in just the UPS and see if it charges. Then plug in the loads to the UPS and see if the UPS is still happy. Finally start plugging in other loads you might have on during a power outage. As you plug in devices you might find that a certain device causes the UPS to go offline.
Some electronic devices can cause large amounts of wave shape distortion. Generators have much higher impedance than the power utility so any wave shape distortion would be greatly exacerbated when on generator power. Some UPS's can't deal with really bad wave shape.
Finally, as you are plugging in additional loads, consider where you are plugging them in. Are you plugging them into a 100 foot long 16awg extension cord? If you are getting a lot of voltage drop through an extension cord, run a separate extension cord from the generator for just the UPS. Some UPS's have a "boost" feature that senses a low voltage and boosts the voltage up (some go down too) a small percentage without transferring to battery power. Other cheaper UPS's don't have this feature and have to transfer to battery power in order to maintain 120V output.
Brian

 

[Pwrgeek]

This could be something as simple as a setting in your UPS. Mine (all APC) have settings in them for minimum "return to utility" voltage. From the factory they are set higher than what you'll get out of a generator. Mine had an adjustment that was suggested in the manual if you were planning to have them running off of a generator. Did that and have had no issues through several power failures that have put us on the gen for a couple of days in total.


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[David Paul]

Thanks guys for the ideas. I had not thought of checking the manual, but now I recall something about a floating ground and will check a return to utility setting. Easy to check adding one circuit at a time with the transfer switch to see if one causes the UPS to kick out. The generator output is pretty well balanced according to the meters. Never tried checking the freq with a meter but the meter I have has the function. And Wizard confirmed what I thought about $$$$$$...lol.
So thanks to you all.