Power Distribution Question

[HoZr]

My regular inspector is out and the temp inspector is giving me grief on what the power company has approved. If anyone can look at this and tell me I'm not crazy or other thoughts would be helpful.

The main issue is the inspector thinks we need a commercial combo meter socket. I don't want all my shop breakers on the outside of the house and I don't really feel like spending $7k on a commercial meter socket. He is certain we need a disconnect at the meter for some reason but I can't find where that code exists and he can't tell me.

The Power company estimator looked at this plan (helped draw it up actually) and was fine with it - all boxes are on their approved list.

Building: 50 x 100 steel, slab on grade, 1/3 garage, 2/3 house. 2nd floor framed in residence. 400a service (yes we need it for the wood shop, machine shop, fab shop, and auto shop equipment - as well as the HVAC). I want to bring 400a to the meter then 200a each to a shop panel and a disconnect on the opposite side of the wall. The disconnect then runs to the house panel.

Ufer is in place in the slab, ground rods will be added at the meter outside and at the panel in the middle of the slab (also bonded to the rebar in the slab).

I go crazy on grounds and everything will be bonded to pretty much everything else ground wise.

I'm tempted to just wait for my regular inspector to get back (1-2 months?) since we have a better relationship but I need to get power in soon.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Norcal]

The disconnects need to be grouped nearby do not have a code book handy to give specifics.

 

[HoZr]

Both disconnects are on the interior of the wall opposite the meter socket ~ 8" away

 

[alfredeneuman]

He is certain we need a disconnect at the meter for some reason but I can't find where that code exists and he can't tell me.

The rule for an outside disconnect at any structure isn't in the 2017NEC. It's new for 2020.
Washington AFAIK is still on the 2017NEC.
(Is that what he means?)

 

[HoZr]

We are in Oregon, sorry - updated that. It's possible he's on a different code year?

we are still on 2017NEC and OESC but I don't see anything in there regarding disconnects.

 

[Jagmandave]

Interesting - that's pretty much exactly what I'm getting ready to do in my shop build except I'm only doing a 200A service. I'm in Kansas....

 

[wyliesdiesels]

My regular inspector is out and the temp inspector is giving me grief on what the power company has approved. If anyone can look at this and tell me I'm not crazy or other thoughts would be helpful.

The main issue is the inspector thinks we need a commercial combo meter socket. I don't want all my shop breakers on the outside of the house and I don't really feel like spending $7k on a commercial meter socket. He is certain we need a disconnect at the meter for some reason but I can't find where that code exists and he can't tell me.

The Power company estimator looked at this plan (helped draw it up actually) and was fine with it - all boxes are on their approved list.

Building: 50 x 100 steel, slab on grade, 1/3 garage, 2/3 house. 2nd floor framed in residence. 400a service (yes we need it for the wood shop, machine shop, fab shop, and auto shop equipment - as well as the HVAC). I want to bring 400a to the meter then 200a each to a shop panel and a disconnect on the opposite side of the wall. The disconnect then runs to the house panel.

Ufer is in place in the slab, ground rods will be added at the meter outside and at the panel in the middle of the slab (also bonded to the rebar in the slab).

I go crazy on grounds and everything will be bonded to pretty much everything else ground wise.

I'm tempted to just wait for my regular inspector to get back (1-2 months?) since we have a better relationship but I need to get power in soon.

Thanks in advance!

If he can't tell you and it doesnt exist in NEC 2017, then he's full of it. Ask him for a reference or tell him it doesnt apply until 2020 code cycle adoption.

As to putting ground rods in, there is no benefit since you have a UFER. You are wasting your money. There will be no added benefit

We are in Oregon, sorry - updated that. It's possible he's on a different code year?

we are still on 2017NEC and OESC but I don't see anything in there regarding disconnects.

He can pretend to be on whatever code cycle he wants but its which code cycle the AHJ (his boss) is on that matters.

 

[sparky 1971]

Ask the inspector for a code reference or a copy of the city's adopted amendment that shows you don't meet the requirements. This is a case where "because I said so" won't cut it.

 

[malibu101]

I find it odd that the ground rod conductor goes to the meter.?
That don't happen in these parts of PA.

 

[Norcal]

I find it odd that the ground rod conductor goes to the meter.?
That don't happen in these parts of PA.

It depends on the PoCo, not done in PG&E territory either.

 

[HoZr]

As to putting ground rods in, there is no benefit since you have a UFER. You are wasting your money. There will be no added benefit

I was under the impression we needed a secondary ground for the 400a service bu I might be misremembering (been a while since I did service/distribution in a project). I will see if the PoCo has an issue with grounding the meter but if I don't need that rod I'll just ditch it.

I put a call in to my regular inspectors cell (VM) to see if he can clear this up. After reading up I think you all are right in that the temp guy is trying to go off 2020.

We have had all manner of issues here since we are the first to build something like this and they keep reverting to commercial specs for EVERYTHING and we have to keep fighting back to residential code.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[HoZr]

I find it odd that the ground rod conductor goes to the meter.?
That don't happen in these parts of PA.

It depends on the PoCo, not done in PG&E territory either.

Pac Power is a little odd - their only other service area is Colorado. They do things a little old fashioned at times.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I find it odd that the ground rod conductor goes to the meter.?
That don't happen in these parts of PA.

It depends on the PoCo. Theres a few that allow it, none i know of in california and its better to have it in the main service panel since the meter pan is tamper sealed.

I was under the impression we needed a secondary ground for the 400a service bu I might be misremembering (been a while since I did service/distribution in a project). I will see if the PoCo has an issue with grounding the meter but if I don't need that rod I'll just ditch it.

I put a call in to my regular inspectors cell (VM) to see if he can clear this up. After reading up I think you all are right in that the temp guy is trying to go off 2020.

We have had all manner of issues here since we are the first to build something like this and they keep reverting to commercial specs for EVERYTHING and we have to keep fighting back to residential code.

Thanks for all the help!

A UFER doesnt need secondary electrode. youre thinking of a water line electrode. A UFER is good on its own. Ditch the rods.

 

[HoZr]

You're right. I can see the valve next to the clamp in my head!

 

[HoZr]

Where we are today....