power in my garage questions.

[wayfarer770]

I understand electricity can kill me dead , I suspect it'll hurt too!
this is mostly an academic exercise to help get a price and start creating a budget.
When I go to do the project there will be a licensed electrician, Ill pull wires drill holes etc. I want to understand what's going on and i want to take as little of his time as possible, but I WONT be wiring.
I take full responsibility of electrifying myself


My garage currently has shoddily wired 2 lights and an outlet. I want to be able to weld out there. Some preliminary googling has me convinced I want a sub panel out there. This brings me to my first question 1) what panel for garage ? I could remove the one in the house and use that in the garage upgrading the one in the house or I could get a cheaper main lug box for the garage.
2) what wire do I need for between the main panel in the house and the sub in the garage ? I know it will depend on how much power i need in the garage , that's another question. Out door electrical cable , electric service wire and cable , something else ? Aluminum ? copper? How about conduit ? ( less than 100 ft from service panel to garage sub )
3) how much Power should I bring to the garage . its 14 x 22 I'll never do electric heat or air-conditioning. I picked up somewhere if i use a main lug box im limited to 6 circuits.
4)How do I make room in my main panel to add all the power for the garage ?

Pic of current panel in house

 

[Innovate1]

Whats the size (amps) of the existing main breaker? The main panel is full. You could likely use some half size breakers on smaller circuits to get a dual space open but the panel amps may be a limiting factor. You could also move some of the smaller loads to a sub panel in the house to open up some space. What are the other house loads? I am not really familiar with welding and what is needed for power but it sounds like a 60A circuit would be more than enough for welding and a few other small loads (lights and some smaller tools) given you don't intend on heating or cooling.

If you upgrade the main panel amperage that will mean an upgrade of the incoming power by the power company so you would need to check with the power company on what is needed to do that.

The existing panel could be used for the garage sub panel. The main breaker is bigger than needed but is fine in that location - it is only used as a switch and not protection. The protection is the feeding breaker in the main panel and can be smaller amps.

If you buy a new panel for the garage I would go with a main breaker style or backfeed a breaker as the main. It's worth it to have the main IMHO. Buy something at least a little bigger than you think you need as it's only a little more and makes future additions much easier.

I would put in conduit and aluminum wire. A lot cheaper than copper and works fine.

 

[Norcal]

The OP's panel is a 100A Murray, or Crouse-Hinds, (same thing), before adding a sub, a load calculation would be prudent, then if OK some shifting around and using twin breakers will be required because there are no open spaces to add a breaker for a subpanel. It would be a good idea to consider a service upgrade, the main breaker is a oddity & no longer made (ON/OFF is reverse of a normal one).......................................................................................

 

[Innovate1]

I noticed the switch was down which seemed odd to be off when picture was taken. The breaker marking seemed to be 100 upside down too but thought it couldn't be that. Apparently it is.

 

[a_whale]

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[exranger06]

Is the garage attached or detached? Reading between the lines in the OP, it sounds like it's detached, but we should make sure.

If it's detached, you have to basically abandon the current electric feed to the garage and install a new feed to a subpanel in the garage. You can't have more than one feed to a structure. How is the current wiring installed? Is there a conduit going underground? It may be possible to pull out the old wires and pull new, larger wires through.

 

[Solarphil]

It's hard to tell in the original photo, but that looks like a 100 amp main panel? You've already added tandem breakers in two locations, and you've apparently got some heavier loads like pumps and hot tubs. Norcal's right - might be time to bite the bullet and get a service upgrade. The new service can be sized for what you have now, what you plan on adding in the garage, and still leave room for other growth.

For the run to the garage, I'm a big fan of conductors in conduit - more protection against landscapers and other digging creatures, ourselves included. Aluminum would be fine for this application. I'd plan a 60a feed minimum, 100a if you plan on running welders, larger motors or dust collection. The cost difference between the two is pennies on the dollar.

If you're on a budget, one of the best ways to save money is by doing exactly what you say - dig all the trenches, drill all the holes, clear everything out of your electrician's way. Do a lot of planning with him about what he needs to get in, get done and get out, then help connect the dots.

 

[wayfarer770]

Garage is detached. I'm going to bite the bullet and put in a new 200 amp service. It is overhead. So I need a 200 amp Meter socket , 200 amp panel for the house. breakers for the main service panel. Wire and conduit to run between main in house and sub in detached garage (less than 100')
Ive been looking at menards What brand panel should I go with? What do I need to run 100 amps to the garage for wire and conduit?
I guess now would be the time to add a transfer switch for a generator

 

[Innovate1]

I like homeline but others will have their own opinions. You might consider converting from overhead to underground while you are at it. Is the electrician going to work with your purchases? Might want to sort that out before you buy things. If I was doing it I would buy a 200A main panel "kit" or whatever it's called. It will come with a few breakers. You could use the existing panel for the garage but I would be inclined to get the same brand for the garage.

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/circuit-protection-power-distribution/main-breaker-box/square-d-trade-homeline-trade-200-amp-40-space-80-curcuit-indoor-main-breaker-load-center-value-pack/hom4080m200pcvp/p-1444444032964-c-6437.htm

https://www.menards.com/main/electrical/circuit-protection-power-distribution/main-breaker-box/square-d-trade-homeline-trade-100-amp-20-space-40-circuit-indoor-main-breaker-load-center-value-pack/hom2040m100pqcvp/p-1502087414445-c-6437.htm

The 100 A subpanel may be overkill but it's only $5 more than one that is less than half the size that you may fill up. If you decide to run a 60A feed it will still be fine fed with a 60A breaker in the main panel.

Might want to look at wireandcableyourway.com for wire.

 

[Norcal]

Garage is detached. I'm going to bite the bullet and put in a new 200 amp service. It is overhead. So I need a 200 amp Meter socket , 200 amp panel for the house. breakers for the main service panel. Wire and conduit to run between main in house and sub in detached garage (less than 100')
Ive been looking at menards What brand panel should I go with? What do I need to run 100 amps to the garage for wire and conduit?
I guess now would be the time to add a transfer switch for a generator

Worst panel to buy is a Eaton BR, I call them "Zinsco II". My 1st choice is Eaton CH, 2nd choice Siemens, 3rd choice SQ D QO, & would begrudgingly use SQ HOM as 4th choice, might consider GE but would rather not. A copper bus is a must in my book though which is why I used "begrudgingly" in choosing SQ D HOM, they have a aluminum bus, Siemens indoor single phase panels can be either copper or aluminum bus.