power main

[onemoretry]

So I know I should have considered this earlier in my build process, but I got quite the shock today. $7500 to run power from my house to my two buildings, a 100A to the garage and a 200A to the barn. The barn is less than 300 feet from the house and the garage is 80. Does that not seem high? I know it is a long run, and the wire gauge is pretty beefy, but still... I figure $500 for the trencher, $500 for labor for the trencher, 500 for the boxes, $200 for the new meter, and let's say $1000 for something I forgot. That leaves $4800 for wire and profit. Is wire that high? I know copper has gone up dramatically, but he quoted aluminum wire for the mains. I know AL is bad for in house wiring, is it OK, for the main line?
So many questions, so little experience, and a hatred of the answers Google provides...

 

[Dawgfan]

Put in a seperate service. Most power companies where we live will give you a meter base. The 200A panels with breakers at HD or Lowes are only around $125. You should be able to build a power entrance, including the panel, for less than $350. I just reworked one on an old dairy barn for less than that in Dec. 08.
The power company provides the drop to your building from your transformer.

 

[LoneGunman]

From the information you provided I'd say it's a 2 day job for two guys. The company I work for charges anywhere from $65-$85 an hour PER electrician so that's $2080, 300' of 2" PVC, 80' of 1 1/4" PVC, wire, ETC, it adds up.

Not part of your question but make sure you have them run an extra conduit for phone,data ETC. or you run it while the trench is open.

 

[onemoretry]

Put in a seperate service. Most power companies where we live will give you a meter base. The 200A panels with breakers at HD or Lowes are only around $125. You should be able to build a power entrance, including the panel, for less than $350. I just reworked one on an old dairy barn for less than that in Dec. 08.
The power company provides the drop to your building from your transformer.

I was told that a second drop would require me to have a commercial account and would cost a ridiculous amount. If anyone knows for sure one way or another, I would like to hear about it.
My estimates were for the two buildings so it looks like the rest of my estimates are reasonable or high based on what you said...
I am not sure what to do now. I had budgeted about $10k for both buildings fully wired, which I thought was even high, and now it looks like I will be lucky to get 50% to 100% higher...
Boy do I sound whiny

 

[onemoretry]

From the information you provided I'd say it's a 2 day job for two guys. The company I work for charges anywhere from $65-$85 an hour PER electrician so that's $2080, 300' of 2" PVC, 80' of 1 1/4" PVC, wire, ETC, it adds up.

Not part of your question but make sure you have them run an extra conduit for phone,data ETC. or you run it while the trench is open.

I had planned on running a line for plumbing and additional for phone and data, but that is not included in the price quoted.
I certainly know it adds up, but, I guess it just added up to more than I expected...
thanks

 

[LoneGunman]

I had planned on running a line for plumbing and additional for phone and data, but that is not included in the price quoted.
I certainly know it adds up, but, I guess it just added up to more than I expected...
thanks

Like I said, that price is in MY area, from a company that's been in business for 40 years with 60 employees, new trucks, ETC ETC, meaning HIGH overhead.

It is not rocket science, have you thought about doing it yourself? Rent the trencher and a day laborer to backfill, backfilling is the only assbusting part of your job. The rest is easy with a little bit of research.

The power company here will give you a new service but it would cost you a lot more than the price you were quoted.

I don't like AL but in your application and with the amount of wire you need I don't see it being a problem. You could also save some money by going with direct burial cable, you'd have to do the math and see if it's worth it or if you would save anything, I believe the direct burial cable is more money than what you'd run in a conduit, don't know for sure because I never see the material costs.

 

[onemoretry]

I have thought of doing it myself, and even considered using this project as the reason I would "need" a bobcat... I travel about 75% of the time with no notice, so planning this kind of stuff is a pain to say the least. If I knew someone with a trencher that I wouldn't get hit with day to day rental fee, I would consider it more.
Of course all of this seems like an excuse to not try something for fear of getting in over my head...

 

[LoneGunman]

"Of course all of this seems like an excuse to not try something for fear of getting in over my head... "

As long as you ask questions BEFORE you do it you won't have a problem, it is not a complicated installation. If you decide to do it yourself, plan out what you are going to do, people here will help you with any questions you may have, then go visit your electrical inspector and go over with him what you are going to do and how, this way you avoid running into any problems during your final.

Some areas don't do trench inspections, if your don't and you decide to take the job on yourself, put in some inspection tubes( scrap pieces of conduit placed in the trench vertically) this allows the inspector to "see" the depth of the trench is correct.

 

[Aceman]

I think the price is probably about right without looking at it. Like LG said, it would probably take 2 guys two days to finish it.

Who did your load calcs? 100 amps to a garage and 200 amps to a barn all coming off your house panel?

 

[onemoretry]

I think the price is probably about right without looking at it. Like LG said, it would probably take 2 guys two days to finish it.

Who did your load calcs? 100 amps to a garage and 200 amps to a barn all coming off your house panel?

no, it would come from the meter on the side of the house. Nothing for the garage or barn would come from in the house. Of course, this assumes I understand what I asked for and what was quoted...

 

[onemoretry]

"Of course all of this seems like an excuse to not try something for fear of getting in over my head... "

As long as you ask questions BEFORE you do it you won't have a problem, it is not a complicated installation. If you decide to do it yourself, plan out what you are going to do, people here will help you with any questions you may have, then go visit your electrical inspector and go over with him what you are going to do and how, this way you avoid running into any problems during your final.

Some areas don't do trench inspections, if your don't and you decide to take the job on yourself, put in some inspection tubes( scrap pieces of conduit placed in the trench vertically) this allows the inspector to "see" the depth of the trench is correct.

I will have to think it through. When the garages went up, I did a lot of the basic labor, as my builder actually likes having the homeowner involved. It worked out great for me as decisions could be made quickly with his insight and me being on site. I loved this aspect as I was a reasonably significant part of the build, but didn't have to worry. this is another story....

 

[Aceman]

no, it would come from the meter on the side of the house. Nothing for the garage or barn would come from in the house. Of course, this assumes I understand what I asked for and what was quoted...

I highly doubt they are planning on pulling 300 more amps plus the house load(200 amp?) through the existing meter. I think you need to look through the quote you received and see exactly what you're getting for $7500.

You will be getting a serious service upgrade to your house from the looks of it.$$$

 

[nadogail]

Maybe I am totaly ignorant of your reality; never the less, here is my two cents worth.
When you said you have a barn, I assume you have are on an agricultural property.
Have you considered "Pole Metering" ? One of my reference books describes a pole set on the property near the largest electrical load, the transformer, meter, and main disconnect are monted on a pole at a central location on the then service wires are run overhead from the meter pole to the sub panels in the house, barn, workshop, pump house, etc.

More information will be found in Practical Electrical Installation & Rewiring by John E. Traister. 1979, TAB Books. Blue Ridge Summit, PA

 

[LoneGunman]

I highly doubt they are planning on pulling 300 more amps plus the house load(200 amp?) through the existing meter. I think you need to look through the quote you received and see exactly what you're getting for $7500.

You will be getting a serious service upgrade to your house from the looks of it.$$$

Yeah, something is definitely not right. Maybe the price included an upgrade to a 400a service? In my area anything over 200a for a residential application requires a bunch of BS from the power company.

 

[Dawgfan]

My extra meters for a barn and a shop are $18.73 per month minimum for 0 - 54 kwh. The meter / account fee goes to $12 and change for over 54 kwh in a month plus the usage charge. We can add additionals for the same charges.
Last month my shop bill was around $66 due to heating because I'm painting inside. I kept it between 52 deg. and 60 deg.
We are in NE Georgia and serviced by an Electric Membership Cooperative.

Underground service is going to be expensive.

 

[onemoretry]

I highly doubt they are planning on pulling 300 more amps plus the house load(200 amp?) through the existing meter. I think you need to look through the quote you received and see exactly what you're getting for $7500.

You will be getting a serious service upgrade to your house from the looks of it.$$$

Maybe I am totaly ignorant of your reality; never the less, here is my two cents worth.
When you said you have a barn, I assume you have are on an agricultural property.
Have you considered "Pole Metering" ? One of my reference books describes a pole set on the property near the largest electrical load, the transformer, meter, and main disconnect are monted on a pole at a central location on the then service wires are run overhead from the meter pole to the sub panels in the house, barn, workshop, pump house, etc.

More information will be found in Practical Electrical Installation & Rewiring by John E. Traister. 1979, TAB Books. Blue Ridge Summit, PA

Yeah, something is definitely not right. Maybe the price included an upgrade to a 400a service? In my area anything over 200a for a residential application requires a bunch of BS from the power company.

The main into the house is underground, so adding a pole would require perhaps even more of the same. This installation would require a new meter, with two drops coming out of the meter, one would be the house, so that nothing in the house changes, the other would go to the barn (really a big garage that will house the wood shop and firetruck) and then the garage would be a sub from the barn to the garage.
The garage doesn't need 100A, but everything I have read here is that I should just plan 100A. The barn may need that much with the shop going in. I'll have all of the wood working tools, welding and cutting equipment, and a 7.5HP compressor, as well as electric heat. I further wanted a large service from here direct to the meter so that I can run some solar and wind power for entertainment's sake. So 200A is a little overkill, but not much.
Just found out my cousin may have the equipment that would allow me to go at a slow pace, so I may just do it myself. My father had all of the certs in PA so is at least capable of helping, though I don't know if it would count in MD, and that was 20 years ago...
Thanks for the input, and sorry if I seem dense.

 

[Rigmaster]

Can't help with the question of cost, other than to repeat what has been said- that is , make sure you know what the cost estimate includes, and that it includes not just what you asked for, but what you NEED.


I can comment on the idea of having the power company run an extra line to the barn and/or the garage. I have 3 different meters, 1 for the house, 1 for the shop and 1 for an barn that used to be my shop (still use it occasionally so we keep power on). I get 3 different bills, the 2 shops are labelled as "farm shop #1 and #2", but we do live on a farm in a rural area. I had no problem getting the power company to run separate lines to the shops (all 3 were done at different times).

I guess it depends on the local electric utility and their rules and regulations, but I darn sure would call and ask if they would run the service for you- at least to the barn, then maybe you could branch off of that to the garage from whichever was closest.


Maybe if you post your location someone on the board might have some specific info that would help.


Good luck.

 

[ddawg16]

I would vote for the DIY.

One question.....what are the chances that you will be using 100A in the garage and up to 200A in the barn at the same time?

Is the garage between the house and barn? If so, why not run 200A to the garage and then 200A over to the barn. As long as the feed is protected for 200A total, you shold be good.

 

[79firebird]

By the sounds of it if there going off the meter on the house for power chances are they have to upgrade it to a 400 amp service so new wires from road to house new meter,socket,and rain head. Re wireing to main panel runing wire to both shops driveing a ground rod in and wireing to both panels. So to me that price looks like it might be right. Could allways call the power co and see if they would give you a deal if you dig the trench

 

[onemoretry]

Can't help with the question of cost, other than to repeat what has been said- that is , make sure you know what the cost estimate includes, and that it includes not just what you asked for, but what you NEED.


I can comment on the idea of having the power company run an extra line to the barn and/or the garage. I have 3 different meters, 1 for the house, 1 for the shop and 1 for an barn that used to be my shop (still use it occasionally so we keep power on). I get 3 different bills, the 2 shops are labelled as "farm shop #1 and #2", but we do live on a farm in a rural area. I had no problem getting the power company to run separate lines to the shops (all 3 were done at different times).

I guess it depends on the local electric utility and their rules and regulations, but I darn sure would call and ask if they would run the service for you- at least to the barn, then maybe you could branch off of that to the garage from whichever was closest.


Maybe if you post your location someone on the board might have some specific info that would help.


Good luck.

I have just called the power company and hope that someone will be stopping by today. We shall see what they come up with, it may work out with them, though the neighbors suggest that won't be the case.

 

[onemoretry]

I would vote for the DIY.

One question.....what are the chances that you will be using 100A in the garage and up to 200A in the barn at the same time?

Is the garage between the house and barn? If so, why not run 200A to the garage and then 200A over to the barn. As long as the feed is protected for 200A total, you shold be good.

This just makes sense, and I should have thought of it before, thanks,

 

[onemoretry]

By the sounds of it if there going off the meter on the house for power chances are they have to upgrade it to a 400 amp service so new wires from road to house new meter,socket,and rain head. Re wireing to main panel runing wire to both shops driveing a ground rod in and wireing to both panels. So to me that price looks like it might be right. Could allways call the power co and see if they would give you a deal if you dig the trench

I have 400A service to the meter, so I shouldn't need to upgrade the line to the house, or so I am told.
thanks