Power out for a few hours - learned a few things about generator setup...

[Innovate1]

Had a storm come through last night and lost power about 4:30 PM. Had some hail - nothing too large in my area and some wind and moderately heavy rain. Was surprised that was enough to knock out power. It was out for about 3000 customers for about 4 hours. So I cranked up the generator. Dinner had just started cooking in the gas oven. Burners work without power but not the oven. With the generator the oven worked. Have two 200A panels with generator interlock on one - Microwave isn't on that panel - may have to change that. Was able to have the generator in the OHD opening with the exhaust pointed out so kept the generator out of the rain. And most storms come from the other direction so not much issue with rain blowing in with the door open. Ran for a couple hours and generator started running rougher and rougher until I shut it down. Power came on shortly after. Found some water in the float bowl. I typically run on plain gas with ethanol for any extended periods and run a bit of ethanol free through it when storing - that seemed to work well as it had been sitting for quite a while and fired right up. How to deal with water? I know some equipment has a filter bowl with a drain to catch water (and other crud). Airplane preflight is to drain a small amount from the low point of the tanks into a transparent tube so any water can be seen. There's a small in line filter but it doesn't stop water.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Found some water in the float bowl. I typically run on plain gas with ethanol for any extended periods and run a bit of ethanol free through it when storing - that seemed to work well as it had been sitting for quite a while and fired right up.

Gasoline is hygroscopic, which means it will absorb moisture out of the air. Even a vented full can will absorb some, especially if you live in a humid area.

The best solution is to use fresh fuel. E10 is fine, if it is fresh.

3 preventative measures

• If your generator does not have a fuel shutoff valve, install one ! Always shut off the fuel and let the carburetor run dry.
• Once a year, drain the generator tank (recycle into something with a much larger tank) and fill with fresh fuel.
• Second, a small amount of METHANOL (found in fuel line de-icers like HEET) will absorb the moisture and the engine will burn it.

 

[chris142]

You can buy a filter head and filter that removes water

 

[theoldwizard1]

You can buy a filter head and filter that removes water

Multiple videos on YouTube on how to remove water and ethanol from gasoline.

 

[Snapped-off]

I learned to switch mine back to auto from off after an oil change last year.

 

[Sumboodie]

Gasoline is hygroscopic, which means it will absorb moisture out of the air. Even a vented full can will absorb some, especially if you live in a humid area.

The best solution is to use fresh fuel. E10 is fine, if it is fresh.

3 preventative measures

• If your generator does not have a fuel shutoff valve, install one ! Always shut off the fuel and let the carburetor run dry.
• Once a year, drain the generator tank (recycle into something with a much larger tank) and fill with fresh fuel.
• Second, a small amount of METHANOL (found in fuel line de-icers like HEET) will absorb the moisture and the engine will burn it.

Air brake antifreeze is meth as well.

 

[chris142]

Multiple videos on YouTube on how to remove water and ethanol from gasoline.

 

[chris142]

Multiple videos on YouTube on how to remove water and ethanol from gasoline.

im taling about just putting a water removing filter inline

 

[Gozo]

I’ve had the same problem a few times with the generator. Eventually converted it propane. Yeah, supposedly less energy but I don’t think we were ever close to full load. Much easier for lazy me to not have to remember to drain the tank and carb before putting it into storage. Plus the propane doesn’t go bad just sitting there, and it does double duty for the grill.

 

[theoldwizard1]

im taling about just putting a water removing filter inline

The good ones (Racor) are large and expensive !

 

[Innovate1]

I’ve had the same problem a few times with the generator. Eventually converted it propane. Yeah, supposedly less energy but I don’t think we were ever close to full load. Much easier for lazy me to not have to remember to drain the tank and carb before putting it into storage. Plus the propane doesn’t go bad just sitting there, and it does double duty for the grill.

I just got a Honda 2200 watt inverter generator and added a propane/NG kit. Plan is to run it on propane when camping and NG for home outages. It's half the power of the old one so that may be an issue at home. I did the Hutch Mountain kit.

 

[brewchief]

I added a tee in the line leading to the carb with a shutoff, I can easily drain the tank and let it run out of gas. I keep around 10 gallons on hand in a couple 5 gallon cans, if I don't use it in mower or snowblower in 6 months or so I'll simply dump the cans into my truck and refill them with fresh, I do add a bit of seafoam to the gas when I get it as I feel it does help it last longer.
If there's a weather event that has a high probability of power outage I can dump a can in and have it ready, if it misses then just drain it right back out.

 

[Innovate1]

I added a tee in the line leading to the carb with a shutoff, I can easily drain the tank and let it run out of gas. I keep around 10 gallons on hand in a couple 5 gallon cans, if I don't use it in mower or snowblower in 6 months or so I'll simply dump the cans into my truck and refill them with fresh, I do add a bit of seafoam to the gas when I get it as I feel it does help it last longer.
If there's a weather event that has a high probability of power outage I can dump a can in and have it ready, if it misses then just drain it right back out.

That's a fairly good plan. I do similar. I say "fairly good" only because the float bowl is likely not completely drained by running the engine until it quits for lack of fuel. I did that and the gas varnished up and stuck the float to the bottom of the bowl so it would overflow. The Honda I just bought has a small drain valve in the bottom of the float bowl - first time I have seen that. The tee in the fuel line is a good idea - I just went through draining the tank on the old generator and had to pull a tube off a plastic fitting - it's old so I was a little concerned I might break the plastic but it was ok.

 

[nadogail]

HEET, Gas Line Antifreeze, was something I always had a few cans of stashed in my pickup when I lived in Alaska.

 

[reader2580]

The good ones (Racor) are large and expensive !

They make smaller ones designed for larger riding mowers with water cooled engines. EBay is a good place to get NOS ones for less money.

 

[dcg9381]

I typically run on plain gas with ethanol for any extended periods and run a bit of ethanol free through it when storing - that seemed to work well as it had been sitting for quite a while and fired right up. How to deal with water? I know some equipment has a filter bowl with a drain to catch water (and other crud). Airplane preflight is to drain a small amount from the low point of the tanks into a transparent tube so any water can be seen. There's a small in line filter but it doesn't stop water.

Ethanol gas ***** for carbs. I drain every single carb I have if I'm storing for more than a week. Eventually it's going to screw you - if it's not the pilot jets, it's the primer or fuel lines.

You're a pilot (perhaps) - fill the generator up to the top with 100LL or ethanol free. If there is no space for the tank to accumulate moisture, you'll be fine for as long as that gas lasts and shouldn't get water in there. Drain the carb, and turn off the fuel flow - that'll work better.

I keep 15 gallons of gas on hand (ethanol free) and 5 gallons of 100LL.

But what's better than both is generators that are dual fuel. I keep 100 lbs of "portable" propane and 500 gallons of propane on the house, both of which I can use to power generators.

 

[Innovate1]

Yes, I am a pilot although I haven't flown for years and am not current. I ran auto gas in my Continental aircraft engine and it wasn't an legal issue because it was a homebuilt and I never had any problems with fuel. But was just reading a little on the STC to allow auto gas in aircraft engines. It does not allow ethanol. The way I read this where I live requires fuel to meet a standard that does not include ethanol but I see 10% notices on gas pumps. Maybe I am missing something. Here's a link:
https://www.autofuelstc.com/stc_specs.phtml

 

[theoldwizard1]

Ethanol gas ***** for carbs. I drain every single carb I have if I'm storing for more than a week. Eventually it's going to screw you - if it's not the pilot jets, it's the primer or fuel lines.

I have ALWAYS run E10 in all of my small engines. Never a problem.

I just pulled out my 1960s 5hp Briggs & Stratton powered rototiller. It has bee sitting with a half a tank of E10 since a year ago. Started on the THIRD PULL !

 

[dcg9381]

I just pulled out my 1960s 5hp Briggs & Stratton powered rototiller. It has bee sitting with a half a tank of E10 since a year ago. Started on the THIRD PULL !

Bet the jets were a bit more open back in the 1960s..
That's awesome that you've had that experience. I can't explain it - might be our high temp environment impacts the ethanol gas more? I really hate cleaning carbs, probably back from my motorcycle days of dealing with Honda V4s which were a *****.

Can tell you that non-ethanol gas seems to result in longer life on primer bulbs and fuel lines on the 2-stroke stuff.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I really hate cleaning carbs, ...

I old Briggs and Stratton Vacu-Jet is one of the SIMPLEST carburetors ever built. You have to have a tank full of dirt/rust particles before it would clog !

 

[Innovate1]

Bet the jets were a bit more open back in the 1960s..
That's awesome that you've had that experience. I can't explain it - might be our high temp environment impacts the ethanol gas more? I really hate cleaning carbs, probably back from my motorcycle days of dealing with Honda V4s which were a *****.

Can tell you that non-ethanol gas seems to result in longer life on primer bulbs and fuel lines on the 2-stroke stuff.

That's my guess too - openings in the carb were larger back then. Just a guess though...

 

[dave*99]

Pretty hard to find ethanol free gas in NJ. I did find this site interesting though.

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

 

[dcg9381]

Pretty hard to find ethanol free gas in NJ. I did find this site interesting though.

Might try small airports. I can pull up an NJ sectional if you need. Small airports have pay at the pump 100-LL. Just dont use it in EFI or anything with a catalist.

 

[Jeepster04]

Are you asking how to deal with the water that is now in the gas or how to prevent it from happening? Using ethanol free will prevent it from happening. Draining the fuel in the tank will remedy the water thats currently in the gas.

 

[theoldwizard1]

They (Racor) make smaller ones designed for larger riding mowers with water cooled engines. EBay is a good place to get NOS ones for less money.

Link/picture please.

 

[dave*99]

They make smaller ones designed for larger riding mowers with water cooled engines. EBay is a good place to get NOS ones for less money.

Yes, quite a selection there.

 

[reader2580]

Link/picture please.

Something like https://www.ebay.com/itm/364550805110

I believe this is the same one used on my smallish Kubota diesel engine. The actual fuel filter inside the bowl is 2" or so long. This water separator unit is not exactly tiny, but it is a fair bit smaller than a unit designed for a pickup truck diesel engine.

 

[Firstram]

I just got a Honda 2200 watt inverter generator and added a propane/NG kit. Plan is to run it on propane when camping and NG for home outages. It's half the power of the old one so that may be an issue at home. I did the Hutch Mountain kit.

I have 2 2200’s with their conversion kits, they have been very reliable!

 

[dcg9381]

I believe this is the same one used on my smallish Kubota diesel engine. The actual fuel filter inside the bowl is 2" or so long.

I don't quite get it.

Non-ethanol fuel won't mix with water. So I treat it like I treat airplanes, water is more dense. If it's in there, it's sitting at the bottom of the tank. So tilt the tank so the pickup is at the lowest point and drain a little to see if there is water. This type of filter is (I believe) hydrophobic. It won't pass water. It works for Kubota diesels because water and diesel don't mix. It'd work for non-ethanol gas.

Ethanol gas is hygroscopic. So it's going to absorb water. As it's mixed, I wouldn't expect this type of filter to work.

 

[Just_Steve]

Pretty hard to find ethanol free gas in NJ. I did find this site interesting though.

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

Nearest to me is over an hour away.

 

[dcg9381]

Nearest to me is over an hour away.

You have this airport nearby:

Hudson Valley Regional Airport

The Hudson Valley Regional Airport, located 7 miles south of the City of Poughkeepsie, in the Town of Wappinger, provides corporate and general aviation transportation services.

www.dutchessny.gov

It's got 100-LL. Not cheap at $6/gallon currently. But looks like the typical county airport. Just tell them that you need to put some fuel in a container for your "home built" (airplane). I fetch fuel from the airport about once a year.

 

[Just_Steve]

You have this airport nearby:

Hudson Valley Regional Airport

The Hudson Valley Regional Airport, located 7 miles south of the City of Poughkeepsie, in the Town of Wappinger, provides corporate and general aviation transportation services.

www.dutchessny.gov

It's got 100-LL. Not cheap at $6/gallon currently. But looks like the typical county airport. Just tell them that you need to put some fuel in a container for your "home built" (airplane). I fetch fuel from the airport about once a year.

I never thought to pop into the airport for some fuel, might have to give it a try. Its only 2 miles from me.

 

[dave*99]

Anybody need leaded?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Non-ethanol fuel won't mix with water.
.
.
.
Ethanol gas is hygroscopic. So it's going to absorb water

Go back to chemistry class !

First, ALL gasoline is hygroscopic ! Take a gallon of E00, put it in a clear open container, leave out in the sun on a hot 90+% humid day. Next morning you will see a "puddle" of water at the bottom. Yes, ethanol is worse.

Second, water does not truly "mix" with either gasoline or ethanol (methanol is different). Leave it sit for awhile and the water will separate out.

 

[dcg9381]

Go back to chemistry class !

I didn't do well in chemistry. Thanks for the correction!

 

[Firstram]

I don't quite get it.

Non-ethanol fuel won't mix with water. So I treat it like I treat airplanes, water is more dense. If it's in there, it's sitting at the bottom of the tank. So tilt the tank so the pickup is at the lowest point and drain a little to see if there is water. This type of filter is (I believe) hydrophobic. It won't pass water. It works for Kubota diesels because water and diesel don't mix. It'd work for non-ethanol gas.

Ethanol gas is hygroscopic. So it's going to absorb water. As it's mixed, I wouldn't expect this type of filter to work.

Also, you can mix water with E10 and let it settle to get the alcohol out. You’ll end up with lower octane pure gasoline.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Also, you can mix water with E10 and let it settle to get the alcohol out. You’ll end up with lower octane pure gasoline.

True ! I forgot about that !!