Power sterring question

[Bender78]

My son came home last night with a noisy power steering pump on his 96 Pontiac Sunfire. The fluid was all foamed up in the reservoir; shut it down for a while for the air to settle out then added some fluid. The pump has a pretty good leak at the front shaft seal. The hoses look OK, so I'm figuring that the pump is sucking air through that bad seal. Anyway, it looks like this car is getting a new power steering pump.

Is it OK to use ATF in this power steering system, or should I use power steering fluid?

 

[Gary S]

I'd say read the owner's manual first. Rack and pinion steering might not like ATF as well as power steering fluid.
I drive old rear wheel drive Chevys and I use ATF in mine, but they are an entire different animal from rack and pinion.
The owner's manuals for my older cars (70s) calls for either power steering fluid or ATF. The owner's manuals for the later ones (80s) calls for just power steering fluid.

But, since GM used the exact same steering box during those years, I have no qualms about using ATF in all of them. I find that power steering fluid turns to sludge at low temps and blows the hoses while ATF stays thin at low temps.

I would have doubts about trying ATF in rack and pinion systems unless you find something where the manufacturer recommends it.

 

[ratdoggy]

It probably says so on the cap.

 

[Frank The Plumber]

I have this PS pump in my old truck, adapted it to fit. Power steering fluid is recommended for mine. Clear.

 

[cwolfley]

use the power steering fluid....period.....

 

[Bender78]

It probably says so on the cap.

It says "use approved fluid"

I don't have a factory service manual for this car, and the haynes manual is useless as usual.

I got the belt off, and the pump shaft must have 3/8" of play in it! I'm just surprised this thing wasn't acting until now.n at all. I hate working on front drive cars.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Spend the money and replace the high pressure hose. "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later" applies here !

 

[Torque1st]

Flush the system well by turning the new pump shaft by hand & adding fluid with the return line dumping in a bucket. Turn the steering wheel lock to lock while turning the pump by hand. The failed pump sent steel shrapnel all through the system. After the system is flushed install a return line filter if you want the new pump to work for a while:

Wix transmission/PS filter #58964
200 psi working, pressure relieved, magnetic
change yearly or 12000 miles
Ford equivalent filter kit #XC3Z-7B155-AA
filter alone #XC3P-7B155-BA

Use whichever fluid is cheapest for flushing. You will need about a gallon of it. Use the approved fluid for the refill.

 

[jay50]

Whatever do you, dont get aftermarket reman PS pump, nothing but ****.
Go to boneyard and get one.
Trust me on this one.

 

[Torque1st]

Whatever do you, dont get aftermarket reman PS pump, nothing but ****.
Go to boneyard and get one.
Trust me on this one.

VERY good advice!!!

 

[Bender78]

Whatever do you, dont get aftermarket reman PS pump, nothing but ****.
Go to boneyard and get one.
Trust me on this one.

Spend the money and replace the high pressure hose. "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later" applies here !

Flush the system well by turning the new pump shaft by hand & adding fluid with the return line dumping in a bucket. Turn the steering wheel lock to lock while turning the pump by hand. The failed pump sent steel shrapnel all through the system. After the system is flushed install a return line filter if you want the new pump to work for a while:

Wix transmission/PS filter #58964
200 psi working, pressure relieved, magnetic
change yearly or 12000 miles
Ford equivalent filter kit #XC3Z-7B155-AA
filter alone #XC3P-7B155-BA

Use whichever fluid is cheapest for flushing. You will need about a gallon of it. Use the approved fluid for the refill.

This is all great advice. Thanks to you all!

 

[srmofo]

Flush the system well by turning the new pump shaft by hand & adding fluid with the return line dumping in a bucket. Turn the steering wheel lock to lock while turning the pump by hand. The failed pump sent steel shrapnel all through the system. After the system is flushed install a return line filter if you want the new pump to work for a while:

Wix transmission/PS filter #58964
200 psi working, pressure relieved, magnetic
change yearly or 12000 miles
Ford equivalent filter kit #XC3Z-7B155-AA
filter alone #XC3P-7B155-BA

Use whichever fluid is cheapest for flushing. You will need about a gallon of it. Use the approved fluid for the refill.

Assuming the pump is bad. Just because it made noise while low on fluid doesnt necessarily mean that it sent shavings through the system. It could just have a bad seal.

A filter is cheap insurance though

 

[61falcon]

atf wont hurt it.

 

[Torque1st]

srmofo, I think it may be more than the front seal:

I got the belt off, and the pump shaft must have 3/8" of play in it! I'm just surprised this thing wasn't acting until now.n at all. I hate working on front drive cars.

Once a pump has been run without fluid it usually means there is LOTS of steel shavings in the system. Cavitation will destroy a pump quickly. Just take my word for it, -I taught industrial hydraulic system troubleshooting and repair for Vickers. I had plenty of examples to show students.

Assuming the pump is bad. Just because it made noise while low on fluid doesnt necessarily mean that it sent shavings through the system. It could just have a bad seal.

A filter is cheap insurance though

 

[blazsawgras]

had this same experience on a cavalier once turned out to be the rack and pinion.

 

[jsaw]

atf wont hurt it.

ATF attacks the teflon seals in the steering rack.

 

[Torque1st]

ATF attacks the teflon seals in the steering rack.

 

[tonydanzah]

ATF attacks the teflon seals in the steering rack.

so how does ford get around that?

For what its worth, tech school taught me often running atf in a power steering fluid system can cause the seals to blow. But running ps fluid in a atf system will usually not have adverse effects. Either way I would run atf if that what it calls for or PS fluid if that what it calls for.

 

[61falcon]

atf wont hurt it. ford has been using it for years in their steering systems. i started looking through some manuals online and it states mercon or mercon v for fluid usage in the steering section.

from 2005 f150 manual;

General Specifications

Item Specification
Lubricants
MERCON® Multi-Purpose Automatic Transmission Fluid XT-2-QDX (US); XT-2-LM12 (Canada) MERCON®
Premium Long-Life Grease XG-1-C or XG-1-K (US); CXG-1-C (Canada) ESA-M1C75-B
Fluid capacity (included in pump reservoir fill) 1.3 L (2.7 pt)

(approximate)
Power Steering Gear
Type Rack and Pinion
Ratio 20:1
Static steering wheel turning effort 5.0 Nm (44 lb-in)
Tie-rod articulation torque

i went back to '01 mercon is whats recommended. recently ford has issued a service message stating to use mercon v where regular mercon is used. i have used atf in steering systems for years without any problems.

 

[Greatbear]

Buuut, ATF does not attack the Teflon piston and shaft seals in an automatic transmission?

 

[srmofo]

srmofo, I think it may be more than the front seal:



Once a pump has been run without fluid it usually means there is LOTS of steel shavings in the system. Cavitation will destroy a pump quickly. Just take my word for it, -I taught industrial hydraulic system troubleshooting and repair for Vickers. I had plenty of examples to show students.

yeah I missed that part of it. Youd be surprised at often vehicles come in low on steering fluid. sometimes the pumps are trashed, but sometimes they are not. and with most of the customers being repeat business I would like to think Im the first one that would know that metal destroyed another pump or the rack

 

[blown 87]

Lots of good advice here, use good parts, if they have ran low it WILL put **** through the whole system, sometimes you can flush it out, some times you can not.

As far as ATF (dexron 2, 3) or PS fluid, I worked for Valvoline for years as the lead mechanic for a packaging plant, the last 2 years I was there I worked as a blender (left in 92) and I can tell you that the only difference in PS fluid and Dexron back then was red dye.

The only cars we use manufactured branded PS fluid are the Euro cars (MB, Jag Porsche) and Honda at my shop.

 

[Lotek]

You are going to have to buy fluid anyway, why not buy the right stuff? It isn't like you are going to need gallons of he stuff. My 75 1ton with hydroboost and modified late model pump with remote reservoir has to run the synthetic stuff, which isn't as pricy as you would think. Even with a cooler it would whine a bit when hot until I put the synthetic in, an issue with foaming and the reservoir I am using imho, but the pump mfg suggested the synthetic and it solved the problem. ATF is a no no with late model GM, I don't argue, I just put in what the General says. Definitely flush the system until it runs clear. Had some issues with customer vehicles that the synthetic solved, per tac, that and/or vacuum bleeding the system.

 

[Gary S]

As far as ATF (dexron 2, 3) or PS fluid, I worked for Valvoline for years as the lead mechanic for a packaging plant, the last 2 years I was there I worked as a blender (left in 92) and I can tell you that the only difference in PS fluid and Dexron back then was red dye. .

Apparently not all power steering fluids are created equal then. I find that power steering fluid pours like 80-W90 gear lube at -30 while ATF flows more like it should. And, power steering fluid seems to have very low expansion in hot weather, while ATF expands a lot more and fluid levels get more critical using ATF in my systems.
However, the thick power steering fluid at -30 and -40 destroys my high pressure hoses while ATF does not.

 

[Torque1st]

Lots of good advice here, use good parts, if they have ran low it WILL put **** through the whole system, sometimes you can flush it out, some times you can not.

That **** comes from erosion of the valve plate in the pump. Then that **** circulates to grind and blast more **** off all the parts.

 

[Dragster Racer]

I like the advice to use the atf or whatever is cheapest for flushing. Won't hurt a thing, and won't be in there long anyhow. Final fill could be the proper fluid.