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Pozidrive in the US

jerk_chicken

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Is Pozidrive used in the US very much? I landed in Germany and suddenly everything is PZ, yet I don't even think I've ever seen one in the US. Now is PZ supposed to be better or just different because I've stripped and worn way more bits in the same usage on PZ fasteners than I have PH on PH fasteners.
 
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alex71

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you see it on european cars, and fasteners of european origin. I find it to be better than philips, as far as holding a bit and resisting stripping is concerned, as long as you use a pozidriv bit and not a philips bit on the fastener.
 

GDA

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I haven't seen them except in one situation... the dreaded disc to hub retaining bolt on a Land Rover's disc brakes requires a big pozi.

A hand impact with pozi bit driver makes very easy work of it.
 

slacktide

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Is Pozidrive used in the US very much? I landed in Germany and suddenly everything is PZ, yet I don't even think I've ever seen one in the US. Now is PZ supposed to be better or just different because I've stripped and worn way more bits in the same usage on PZ fasteners than I have PH on PH fasteners.

Not very often. People usually booger them up with a phillips driver.

Ski binding mounting screws and adjusters are pozidrive... PZ2 I think.
 

Monte

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Screws for interior parts of GM cars (at least G-Body, B+C Body cars) are PZ.
 

T56 Impala

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The B-body was using PZ? Humm, interesting. I assume the D-body used them too?

I never had trouble using a phillips on them in my B-body. I never enev though about it actually. I'll have to look into this further.....
 

Joe Reed

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Pozidrive bits and drivers are hard to find in the US. I found some in a Black & Decker bit set at Home Depot a few years ago.

Phillips fasteners were first designed for machine use, and were designed so that the bit would spin out of the fastener at a certain torque. Pozi fasteners were designed to NOT torque out but, as mentioned above, people very often used Phillips drivers on them.

Pozi fasteners are very common on British cars, but I don't recall ever encountering them on anything else....
 

superautobacs

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Ikea uses Pozi Drive on alot of there furniture if it isn't hex head screws

Got to it before me....
Ironically, in their little tool kits that they sell, there's not a single PZ to be found. :wtf:
I don't even think their instructions mention the use of a Pozi driver. :wtf:
 

rhandwor

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Does your store sell over the web or can we order these Williams bits from you. A Quarter a piece is a good price.
 
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jerk_chicken

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Got to it before me....
Ironically, in their little tool kits that they sell, there's not a single PZ to be found. :wtf:
I don't even think their instructions mention the use of a Pozi driver. :wtf:

Yeah, that's where I've seen most of the pozidrives here, and yeah, the tool kit does not supply one.
 

superautobacs

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pz-ph.gif


It's interesting to note the differences in the opening between the two types and how that affects the 'feel':

Because the Phillips is a taper cut, as you drive that screwdriver in with pressure, the more snug you feel the driver holding the screw.

On the other hand, the Pozidriv doesn't share the same 'feel' as it's not taper cut.

The two different screw types may appear similar from a cursory look, but it's definately different.
 

alex71

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thank you for posting that illustration. Guys, there is no E on the end of POZIDRIV! There is an R-ball if you want to get technical about it though :D
 
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scottmlew

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Lots of folks make high-quality Pozi stuff (drivers and bits)...PB Swiss, Wera, Wiha to name just a few...so you can look beyond Zephyr and Apex (although those are also nice options, esp. Apex).
 

slacktide

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The two different screw types may appear similar from a cursory look, but it's definately different.

Other similar drive screws which are often abused with phillips drivers:

Frearson / Reed & Prince, used on brass and bronze woodworking screws. http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer...QNACQIUBSCIIQKBCQHQJCK?prodId=IrwinProd100217

JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) used on Japanese electronics. http://www.rjrcooltools.com/vessel.cfm

Torq-Set (I call them Torque-strip because they awful) used on aircraft hardware. http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/detail.jhtml?prodId=IrwinProd100246

Deckmate: http://www.deckmatescrews.com/

any others?
 

joeswamp

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Phillips screws/bits are designed to cam out above a certain torque, because torque limiting automatic tools didn't exist at the time. The folks who developed Phillips suddenly realized this was a really dumb idea, because it was relatively easy to develop torque limiting power screwdrivers and the cam-out tendency damages the screw.

My understanding is that Pozidriv was then invented by the same folks to solve this problem. Unfortunately, Phillips had already been established as an industrial standard in the states so we never really changed. Europe, on the other hand hadn't totally transitioned from slotted screws yet and so they effectively standardized on Pozidriv.

JIS screws also do not cam out and look far more like Phillips than PZ -- there's a little dot on the head that identifies them. JIS screws can take a lot more torque than Phillips and will strip easily if you use a Phillips driver. AFAIK the bits are only made in Japan by Japanese tool companies.
 

Elroy

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For what it's worth, Elroy installed an MSD distributor recently that was held together with PoziDrive screws.
 

tradesmanschoice

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Certainly here in the UK, PoziDriv screws are used extensively in construction & DIY. If you go to the local DIY or tool shop, you can usually only find boxes of PoziDriv screws available, very few Phillips.

I suspect most users here prefer PoziDriv because Phillips cam out more easily.

Cheers,
Mark
 

MattPersman

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Since this thread was bumped by someone else I will add. The new dodge promaster use many pozidrive screws
 

Dave455

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Phillips screws/bits are designed to cam out above a certain torque, because torque limiting automatic tools didn't exist at the time. The folks who developed Phillips suddenly realized this was a really dumb idea, because it was relatively easy to develop torque limiting power screwdrivers and the cam-out tendency damages the screw.

My understanding is that Pozidriv was then invented by the same folks to solve this problem. Unfortunately, Phillips had already been established as an industrial standard in the states so we never really changed. Europe, on the other hand hadn't totally transitioned from slotted screws yet and so they effectively standardized on Pozidriv.

JIS screws also do not cam out and look far more like Phillips than PZ -- there's a little dot on the head that identifies them. JIS screws can take a lot more torque than Phillips and will strip easily if you use a Phillips driver. AFAIK the bits are only made in Japan by Japanese tool companies.

Everything that joeswamp says is pretty much spot on!

Phillips screws were already being used in the U.K. when Pozidriv was introduced, but mainly in areas such as the aviation industry! They remain standard in the British aviation industry to this day, but are a rarity!

I'm just old enough to remember when Pozidriv were introduced in the U.K. (about 1970 if I recall). The design was heavily pushed by GKN, if I recall correctly, and by the late 70's the Phillips had pretty much disappeared!

Pozidriv Sizes are 0 to 4 inclusive, but 0 and 4 are rare! Only place I can recall seeing No.4 Pozi's are the door hinges on some BMC cars! These days it would be a Torx! Sizes 1,2 and 3 are everywhere, and probably 50% of the screws I turn are No.2 Pozi.

Just about every European manufacturer of anything uses Pozidriv rather than Phillips, and I don't even carry, Phillips in my 'go bag'! Exceptions are anything aircraft or aero engine related, electronics and electrical equipment, and most optical stuff!
 

Monte

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wood screws are usually PZ or Torx over here, drywall screws are PH and metal/machine screws either hex, allen or PH.
 

ttpete

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Phillips screws/bits are designed to cam out above a certain torque, because torque limiting automatic tools didn't exist at the time. The folks who developed Phillips suddenly realized this was a really dumb idea, because it was relatively easy to develop torque limiting power screwdrivers and the cam-out tendency damages the screw.

My understanding is that Pozidriv was then invented by the same folks to solve this problem. Unfortunately, Phillips had already been established as an industrial standard in the states so we never really changed. Europe, on the other hand hadn't totally transitioned from slotted screws yet and so they effectively standardized on Pozidriv.

JIS screws also do not cam out and look far more like Phillips than PZ -- there's a little dot on the head that identifies them. JIS screws can take a lot more torque than Phillips and will strip easily if you use a Phillips driver. AFAIK the bits are only made in Japan by Japanese tool companies.

Phillips screws were first used extensively in the auto industry, mainly for trim work. Assembly was initially done with Yankee push-type screwdrivers. If you look at 1930s cars, all of the garnish moldings around the glass are secured with phillips screws. GM used a lot of clutch-head screws as well.
 

cheechi

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I want to resurrect this because I stumbled across something interesting today.
Klein Tools and PoziDriv are registered trademarks of Klein Tools, Inc.
heres the link

I thought that Pozi was introduced by Phillips themselves, Klein is saying here it's their trademark. Was Klein involved in the introduction of Pozi, or since bought some rights or a company who had those rights? I'm too young to remember when Pozi was introduced, but I will tell you my FIL was a welder and worked in a machine shop in the UK and refers to all Phillips as Pozi so it must have been very common for a relatively long time to be such a common vernacular.

Second related question. The link is about insulated screwdrivers which is all well and good. In the IT industry we encounter Pozi 1 & 2 often enough that many IT pros at least know what it is, unlike many other industries (in the US at least) and some even have the proper drivers. But with 1000v insulated drivers, that implies to me that it's at least somewhat common for an electrician to encounter them also. Is that the case?

I assume this thread sitting dormant for 3 years means not much new has been introduced with Pozi screws but found it a really interesting coincidence the Klein announcement is only a few months after the last reply here. There must have been a reason they decided then to introduce insulated Pozi drivers right?
 

MattT

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But with 1000v insulated drivers, that implies to me that it's at least somewhat common for an electrician to encounter them also. Is that the case?

I see it on european components often enough to carry PZ. This is on industrial controls not the stuff an average electrician will see.

Also that Klein announcement is a UK one not US. I've never seen a Klein PZ in the States.
 

dnschmidt

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Pozidriv was invented by Phillips Screw Company in America. It was sort of their version of the JIS concept of a non-camming out cross drive system. However, as is so often the case, no man is a profit in his own land, and the idea died a quick death in America. The Europeans on the other hand knew a better mouse trap when they saw one. It's virtually universal in Europe as it well should be as it's a superior system just as JIS was (JIS has now been incorporated into the latest Phillips bit standards) so in fact it no longer exists as a separate entity. Of course the DIN standard is only followed in Europe and Asia so we in the USA are still stuck with inferior Phillips bits. The superior DIN bits work great in both Phillips and JIS screws. Pozidriv is too different from either of these to be able to make one type fits all so for Pozidriv you still need Pozidriv bits.
 
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