PPG Break-Through! brush application?

[gaalcom]

Anyone have any success with this acrylic enamel paint using brush application? It seems impossible to keep a wet edge therefore not allowing a smoothing pass. Within about 20-30 seconds, if I haven't accomplished a blend, I'll inevitably get the dry-edge collision. Even breaking it down to 8" sections it beats me up! Any suggestions for technique or a way to slow dry time without compromising the paint?

Current project is painting a smooth fiberglass six panel door laid flat on saw horses in a 70° room. Contemplated using LVLP or roller but decided to brush as I wanted a bit of grain effect. The paint itself, when applied by brush, offers a great subtle grain effect while adhering very well and drying hard and fast (probably too fast).

Any insight appreciated.

 

[Zeke]

All you need is a little extender. XIM makes a good one and Flowetrol has been around for decades. Some use a small amount of ethylene glycol, but that's an off label use, so YMMV. And the last trick with hybrid paints is to add tiny amounts of mineral spirits. Definitely test this before you do it. I'm talking an ounce to a gallon.

 

[gaalcom]

Thanks Zeke!

That's exactly what I wanted to hear...and what I should have sleuthed out myself. Flowtrol sounds like the brother of Penetrol as used for oil based paints for the same purpose. I'll definitely look into the purpose made options you noted. ;-)

 

[ColorMeOrange]

Adding more thining solution will alleviate it and give you ample time to blend the paint as your following up. And try to stay consistent by loading the brush with the same amount before each pass. That too will show. More and less and depending on the paint. It all behaves a little differently then others when applying them.

I use brushes and rollers when not optioning to spray or its restricted. A lot of people cringe at the thought of brushed on. Until they see good finished results.

In fact it still surprises folks when they comment and question jobs sometimes.

Its a great method and has its place like anything else. Of course following a good prep job as with all types of paint jobs. Prep makes a huge difference in finish result and how the paint behaves.

As long as Joe painter isnt applying it on a 100 degree day. And just as importantly the paint is adequately thinned down *just right*. To allow the paint a couple minutes to level itself out before it begins tacking. It gives ample time to correct mistakes when you spot them late your safe. As long as 15 or 20 minutes hasn't gone by.

The main factors that people neglect before brushing the paint on. Then being just OK with results because brush strokes / lines are all throughout the entire finished job.

Over thinning creates just as much headache. Thats why I always sample on cardboard before adding more thinner. Avoid over loading the brushes or rollers and inviting runs. Its more prone to running the thinner you make it.

I like to load up mine and remove excess on a ply or paper pallet. I apply 3 very thin coats giving each coat adequate time to dry between them. I've stayed patient and applied as many as 10 - 12 coats, always giving ample time to dry in between. More so with clears when they are better suited than epoxies. I applied 10+ coats of clear on a walnut Grant steering wheel. It looked like glass, and quite nice. Until my wife put a bunch of scratches and indentations in it with her diamond cluster ring lol.

But following those main and simple key steps will make or break the end results every time. Of course prep is as important, even more so.

I promise I can fool any experienced painter with the brush/roller technics I developed and have done that when asked. I just wouldn't choose to go and paint a car or bike with a brush or roller. But I have seen it done once or twice before.

BTW the foam applicators are great substitutes for brushes. And have a place too. They don't hold as much paint. So I'll grab a brush for larger spanning surfaces.

 

[Zeke]

@ColorMeOrange sounds like you're a pro. I was union trained Local 356 Long Beach (no longer there) and painted 10 years before going into other phases of construction ultimately becoming a general. Like riding a bike, you don't forget, except paints have changed more than bicycles.

Great to read someone else that understands. One thing not mentioned is to paint a 6 panel door in parts. Do the panels first wiping off any paint that gets on the stiles and rails. Then starting at the top, if vertical, paint the top rail and middle rail and bring the stiles down to the bottom finishing up with the bottom rail making sure your last strokes are at right angles following the grain.

The technique I was taught in the 70's for a sprayed look on slab doors (popular then) was to roll the primer and reroll it as it was setting up to give a fine ink blotter texture. Then we rolled oil based enamel covering the entire surface in 90 seconds or so making sure the paint was fully spread and even. Then upward strokes with a 4" china bristle as straight and as light as you could to lay off the paint.

And then leave it alone! The oils of the day would self level and any faint brush strokes were cancelled out by the ink blotter texture. I still do this with the best acrylics and it still works. No brush strokes.

The secret is doing it quickly and getting off the work. Over brushing makes roping looking strokes. I see that everywhere and these days no one cares. If it ain't peeling it's fine.

Funny, I just finished spinning out a brush and combing it before coming in to type this post.

 

[ColorMeOrange]

87Anyone have any success with this acrylic enamel paint using brush application? It seems impossible to keep a wet edge therefore not allowing a smoothing pass. Within about 20-30 seconds, if I haven't accomplished a blend, I'll inevitably get the dry-edge collision. Even breaking it down to 8" sections it beats me up! Any suggestions for technique or a way to slow dry time without compromising the paint?

Current project is painting a smooth fiberglass six panel door laid flat on saw horses in a 70° room. Contemplated using LVLP or roller but decided to brush as I wanted a bit of grain effect. The paint itself, when applied by brush, offers a great subtle grain effect while adhering very well and drying hard and fast (probably too fast).

Any insight appreciated.

In your particular case you just have to find the happy mediums. A touch too much might adversely effect what your aiming for.

And temps and humidity got to be close to a happy medium as well. A bit too much heat can go disastrously horrible and the same goes for thinning solution. A touch too much can have the paint levelling out too fast on you. It can certainly take some trialing and error until finding the magic sweet spots. Don't forget to use measuring cups when it comes time to mix more not knowing bang on accurate ratios could blow the entire job just as well.

That just happened to me, its one of those worst case scenarios as far as painting goes. After tedious prepping and masking then and 3 coats of white. The damn stuff peeled off on me when I accidentally stuck masking tape on a surface. I made sure the new stuff was suited, I haven't got to the bottom of it yet. But I ain't quitting until this job is executed and proper. Back to the start I will go (dammit) lol.

 

[pcmeiners]

As others have mentioned, thin coats. With thin coats the surface will come out like a spray application, with much less work; meaning heavy coat require very careful brushing whereas thin coats do not require the same amount of attention .

 

[Zeke]

Just a mild caution. My experience with paint is that most paints are shipped slightly on the side of being thick/heavy and in need of thinning. You can look at the recommendations for spraying to determine how much thinning will be tolerated before diluting the resin that carries the pigments and other agents to the painted surface. Some are designed to evaporate and some are designed for how the paint handles, dries initially (skins over), and how it cures. Overthinning can reduce the resins to less than optimum strength no matter what you want in terms of laying down a smooth coat. You cannot assume that because an aerosol can has very thin material that you can do the same. Not even close. You cannot assume that multiple coats of overthinned paint will perform as well endurance wise as 2 coats of properly thinned material.

Painted surfaces that chalk prematurely may be a result of too much reduction of the resins.

 

[gazza]

I painted all of our 4 panel doors at the same time, all 4 edges and both faces, just screwed a 3" screw into the edges on the top and bottom, set up a couple of saw horses. Paint one face and and flip it over, then all four edges and the other face, all laying flat. Grab the 3" nails and stand the door up against the wall to dry When dry unscrew the nails.

 

[ColorMeOrange]

Yes go quite thin. As thin as you have the patience for the better. IMHO the thinnest you can go without compressed air is with dense foam rollers. They allow you to control the amount of paint that lays down by how hard/soft you compress the roll. What I like to do is load the roll up then roll some it off on cardboard first. That too gives you much better control of the situation and makes it nearly impossible to screw up by applying too much paint.

On that note I would also play around with introducing brush stroke grain effects in the final, intentionally thicker coat applied as usual with a standard brush. By that point it should brush on smooth like silk even with a cheap poly bristle brush.

And then add the graining while its still wet and as workable as possible. This way you can also use multiple brush sizes and make up. Stay away from fine animal hair those are best for eliminating brush strokes. Cheap dollar store poly brushes with coarse bristles would be what I'd go with here.

With paint skies the limit and your imagination and depending how elaborate you care to be.



I did these fine quality veneer plywood doors and skipped sanding them whatsoever before brushing on the paint. I wasn't chasing any effects at all I was merely being impatient and wanting it on there while knowing its not a show piece, its a tool chest.

In the picture it can appear as a bad paint job having tons of brush strokes. But the actual grain of the wood itself showing through. I applied several very thin coats by that point. And its a pretty gloopy thick oil based rust paint heavily thinned out.

Once they were present they remained and even became more and more prominent with each coat.

If I wanted to bury them I very well could have by doing it differently, ie a bit leaner paint mix and other points mentioned before. I was intentionally trying maintain that after liking how it looked after the first coat. It looked more like it was washed than painted and I liked it, but it was purely accidental followed up with a coincidence or two.

Now, I've been contemplating ghost striping the thing with a satin clear. For kicks and being that there is no longer a rush to install them. It would be interesting to see how that turns out mostly.

That's how they currently look. Its difficult to see the full effects through images, it looks much more obvious to the naked eye.

Your working with a vastly different medium, I get that. It makes mentioning it moot in that regard. At the same time its along similar lines plus I thought it was cool. It might even come in helpful somewhere sometime, to someone. Later on down the line.

Technics seem to evolve just as fast or faster than paint technology itself. Always lots of fun that's the main thing.

 

[californiamilleghia]

I brush painted a fiberglass car one time with rustoleum and it took forever to dry as the paint was too thick ,
I probably needed to thin it out and do a couple coats , but I was lazy that day !

and I am sure hardener would have solved the drying problem

 

[ColorMeOrange]

I brush painted a fiberglass car one time with rustoleum and it took forever to dry as the paint was too thick ,
I probably needed to thin it out and do a couple coats , but I was lazy that day !

and I am sure hardener would have solved the drying problem

I can't even work with it unless I thin it down. Its one of my favorite conventional go to paints so I have a fair bit of experience with using it over the years. In my experiences it usually takes a full day to day and a half to fully dry. But up to a week to 10 days to cure and become hard. Depending how thin you mix it. Before that point of cure you can easily sink a thumb nail in to it and scrape it if you were trying to.

Drying with controlled heat speeds up the process but I can not comment on durability with heat curing as I've only started doing it with my last project.


Once it does finally cure its a fairly durable good paint.

 

[gaalcom]

Thanks to ALL, loads of great information!

I did sneak up on the appropriate amount of thinning (less than their 5%-10% max recommendation) and was ultimately able to get very good work-ability and results. Maybe it's the nature of an acrylic enamel as opposed to latex but never in the past when using very thick SW paints (interior/exterior, shell to gloss, brush/roll) I never found the need for thinning. Live and learn thanks to you all. ;-)

As for the auto related banter -- This is actually my forte. For the past 40+ years I've been painting vehicles a heck a lot more than abodes. Started with lacquer, skipped over enamels and jumped right into 2-stage urethane toppers with epoxy primers underneath. Interesting how I can juggle all the variables of activators and reducers but struggled with my aversion to thinning a water based acrylic enamel for proper application.

 

[Zeke]

Waterborne.

 

[gaalcom]

Waterborne.

While MD is a quasi-commie state we are still only encouraged to, but not mandated to, speak the word waterborne.

 

[strutaeng]

I had a gallon of this that I hadn't really used (I did spray a little bed for my little girl last year, and turned out nicely.)

I built a pair of these bookshelves and used oil coverstain primer. A brush and winnie roller is what I used for the Breakthrough. You do have to move FAST! Get it on there, and move on. It was like 92F yesterday.

But dry time is freaking awesome. I was able to finish both sides of the shelves in like 2 hours! For the second side of the shelves I just put them on the bookcase, but 2 shelves I flipped over and finished the second side and the finish was not damaged at all.

Very impressed. I've used BM Advanced in the past, but this is definitely my new go-to. Its also very durable. Only downside is price, but for furniture, it's definitely worth it.

 

[gaalcom]

Appreciate the first-hand report. Your results look really good...as they very well can.

I had to lose my lackadaisical homeowner mindset when it came to application. Even though I developed a very workable thinning ratio for brush application it still requires applying with a time-is-money attitude as it can dry-edge in as quickly as a minute, much like you eluded to. I've still only brush applied it as I wanted the wood grain look and it does that very well. Levels just enough to provide the very slight effect I was shooting for with all three smooth fiberglass exterior doors.